Home Audio Amps VS Pro DJ Amps?

**BleedingStar** · **02-03-08, 12:11 AM**

Now, I there are definitive advantages to the home audio amplifiers such as mcintosh and other high end audio amps. However, I am still interested in the pros/cons of using professional DJ amplifiers to power your home theater.

I have just got an amazing deal on a pair of King Audios Prince 58" Electrostats. They call for 50-250 watts of power. I am currently pushing 100 watts from my Kenwood THX VR6070 Receiver.... and although they sound quite impressive, I don't feel they are getting what they deserve.

And still I know they probably deserve something of much higher quality than this, I am interested to here the advantage/disadvantages of using a dj amp like this ( http://www.musician.com/product/Gem-...Amp?sku=481217 ) for this and any other home theater use.

I would like to eventually have everything running from separate power amps, and this route would be VERY reasonably priced... but at what cost?

**bluejay** · **02-03-08, 01:17 AM**

I am interested in the same questions. I am also considering an amp upgrade. I am looking at this one;
http://www.musician.com/product/Tapc...ier?sku=483049

**BleedingStar** · **02-03-08, 01:31 AM**

Yeah i bookmarked that one too actually, = )

310 per channel is probably a little more than i need though.

**Sonnie** · **02-03-08, 01:46 AM**

There is some discussion about the Juice amp here and here.

**jackfish** · **02-03-08, 09:46 AM**

The Tapco Juice J-800 is 2 x 205 watts into 8 Ohms and can be had for $230. Mackie has a little bit better reputation than GEM. The low price on the Gem XP series is because they are in closeout.

http://www.musicgearreview.com/review-display/9842.html
http://www.guitargearheads.com/modul...hp?storyid=112

**BleedingStar** · **02-03-08, 04:34 PM**

So, it seems like it isn't an uncommon thing to use a proamp such as the ones we are referring to for home theater power amps? Does anyone notice more distortion from going this route?

**WmAx** · **02-03-08, 07:24 PM**

Quote:

BleedingStar wrote:

Now, I there are definitive advantages to the home audio amplifiers such as mcintosh and other high end audio amps.

What advantage? Pride of ownership? Prettier chassis? Lack of fans(in cases where you can not practically install the amps in a silencing cabinet, or modify the amps to run quiet)? Those are about the only ones can think of.

I used to run only McIntosh amplification - though this was some time back. Today, I mainly use pro amps. The pro amps? I like them better. A good pro amp is as transparent to human ears as any properly operating 'high end' amplifier. But the pro amp does not waste your money.

-Chris

**BleedingStar** · **02-03-08, 07:31 PM**

= ) So i shouldn't feel too cheap about buying a $200 pro power amp over a $2000 home audio amp?

**tonyvdb** · **02-03-08, 07:57 PM**

The one thing with the lower cost "pro" amps is that they tend to have a poor signal to noise ratio and when used at near full power they may distort the signal and also have a high noise floor compared to a more expensive amp or receiver.

**WmAx** · **02-03-08, 08:22 PM**

Quote:

tonyvdb wrote:

The one thing with the lower cost "pro" amps is that they tend to have a poor signal to noise ratio and when used at near full power they may distort the signal and also have a high noise floor compared to a more expensive amp or receiver.

I have a couple of Behringer models and a couple of Crown XLS models; none of which have any audible noise unless you put your ear about 1" in front of the driver in a quiet room. As for distort near high power -- certainly if you exceed their maximum power rating this is true -- just as it is with 'high end' amplifers. You should refer to the pro amp measurements on the AVS forum. In fact, decent ones measure excellent in terms of high power vs. thd level and usually have noise floors far exceeding -100dB. It would be nice if the measurement tech on there would give FFT spectrum analysis shots of the fundamental vs. harmonics so that one could see the specific nature of the HD of each amplifier under different conditions.

-Chris

**jackfish** · **02-03-08, 09:33 PM**

Quote:

BleedingStar wrote:

So, it seems like it isn't an uncommon thing to use a proamp such as the ones we are referring to for home theater power amps? Does anyone notice more distortion from going this route?

The Tapco Juice amps have a THD of 0.03% at rated power. There are home audio amps and receivers with higher distortion ratings.

**tonyvdb** · **02-03-08, 09:50 PM**

Quote:

WmAx wrote:

I have a couple of Behringer models and a couple of Crown XLS models

I would not call these low end models.

@jackfish, dont believe everything you read, Allot of the spec's you see are not actual.

**WmAx** · **02-03-08, 10:05 PM**

Quote:

jackfish wrote:

The Tapco Juice amps have a THD of 0.03% at rated power. There are home audio amps and receivers with higher distortion ratings.

Chasw98 at AVS forum measured the Behringer EP2500 at about 0.046% THD, at 4.4 ohms, bridged mono, producing 1957 watts. I think this amp will be okay at high power.

-Chris

**WmAx** · **02-03-08, 10:06 PM**

Quote:

tonyvdb wrote:

I would not call these low end models.

@jackfish, dont believe everything you read, Allot of the spec's you see are not actual.

Okay, I assumed these would qualify as 'low end', since they are not very expensive.

What is an example of what you consider a 'low end' pro amp?

-Chris

**Sonnie** · **02-03-08, 11:45 PM**

I know there are a lot of people using pro amps in their systems and are very happy. I really don't think we are pushing them to their extreme limits as to have that much of a problem with distortion and/or signal to noise.

I've been trying to get Chasw98 to talk to us about creating him a Amp Tests forum here at the Shack, but supposedly he is not interested in gracing our presence again for some reason. Not sure why, but I and several others have emailed him and private messaged him and he has ignored us.

I figure it won't be long before he rates an amp not so good that one of the AVS advertisers sell and he'll have to remove the test or be banned. Maybe he'll talk to us then.

**jackfish** · **02-04-08, 09:05 AM**

Quote:

tonyvdb wrote:

I would not call these low end models.

@jackfish, dont believe everything you read, Allot of the spec's you see are not actual.

Just what do you mean by "not actual"? I understand that home entertainment amplifiers must now conform to the FTC rules but pro audio and automobile amplifiers are not covered. However, for the educated there can be discernment between manufacturer power ratings to assess relative performance. What is a problem for some people is not always what is revealed, but is often what is omitted.

The power ratings for the Tapco Juice amps don't omit much. They list their two channel power ratings as watts of Continuous Sine Wave Average Output (not the misnomer RMS) per channel, both channels driven, 20 Hz to 20 kHz, into 2, 4 and 8 ohms. Total Harmonic Distortion is stated as 20 Hz to 20 kHz < 0.03% @ 8 ohms. A call to Tapco reveals that THD is at +4 dBu, the standard pro audio voltage reference level equal to 1.23 Vrms. What is "not actual" about all of that?

So, you are saying that Tapco Juice Amps ratings are false?

**jackfish** · **02-04-08, 09:21 AM**

Quote:

BleedingStar wrote:

So, it seems like it isn't an uncommon thing to use a proamp such as the ones we are referring to for home theater power amps? Does anyone notice more distortion from going this route?

What do you think the commercial movie theaters use for amplification?

**tonyvdb** · **02-04-08, 09:54 AM**

Quote:

jackfish wrote:

What do you think the commercial movie theaters use for amplification?

they use better quality amps than Tapco Juice, Theaters use Pro grade amps like Carver, QSC, H&H, Amcron, and others not DJ amps there is a difference but there is no point in arguing this. There are goos amps to be found for a decent price you just have to look out for the ones that are cheap build quality.

**avaserfi** · **02-04-08, 10:57 AM**

Quote:

jackfish wrote:

Just what do you mean by "not actual"? I understand that home entertainment amplifiers must now conform to the FTC rules but pro audio and automobile amplifiers are not covered. However, for the educated there can be discernment between manufacturer power ratings to assess relative performance. What is a problem for some people is not always what is revealed, but is often what is omitted.

The power ratings for the Tapco Juice amps don't omit much. They list their two channel power ratings as watts of Continuous Sine Wave Average Output (not the misnomer RMS) per channel, both channels driven, 20 Hz to 20 kHz, into 2, 4 and 8 ohms. Total Harmonic Distortion is stated as 20 Hz to 20 kHz < 0.03% @ 8 ohms. A call to Tapco reveals that THD is at +4 dBu, the standard pro audio voltage reference level equal to 1.23 Vrms. What is "not actual" about all of that?

So, you are saying that Tapco Juice Amps ratings are false?

Just as with displays and loudspeakers there are varying methods of measurement which are more favorable for the manufacture in the numbers game. Some manufacturers use this to their advantage when rating equipment by using the test that will put their product in the best light. This is the exact reason why fully disclosed credible 3rd party measurements are imperative to truly gaining an objective perspective of equipment performance.

Please note I am not referring to Tapco itself and just the industry as a whole. I do realize not every company can be accused of such practices.

**jackfish** · **02-04-08, 01:33 PM**

Quote:

tonyvdb wrote:

they use better quality amps than Tapco Juice, Theaters use Pro grade amps like Carver, QSC, H&H, Amcron, and others not DJ amps there is a difference but there is no point in arguing this.

Actually, there is a point in your clarifying this. I'd like to have a dollar for every commercial movie theater implementation of the Yamaha P4500, a relatively inexpensive pro audio amp. There are thousands out there. And there isn't a whole lot of "difference" between it and the Tapco Juice amps. Please enlighten us as to the difference between "Pro grade" amps and "DJ amps." Thank You.

**tonyvdb** · **02-04-08, 02:20 PM**

The term "DJ" amps is not really the right one but Its simply build quality thats the big difference. The internal components are not as good. For example Yorkville amps will do the job but are not in the same league as Carver or QSC.

**conchyjoe7** · **02-04-08, 03:03 PM**

Quote:

jackfish wrote:

Please enlighten us as to the difference between "Pro grade" amps and "DJ amps." Thank You.

The enlightenment comes with the listening and the quality of the associated equipment (especially speakers) being "amplified". Some can hear it, some can't; arguing over it is a complete waste of time as neither camp will admit or concede anything to the other...and it's been argued and will continue to be argued forever!
Cheers,
Konky.

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