Looking for a Blu-ray player? What U need 2 Know!

**Wayde** · **03-16-08, 07:46 PM**

Why Blu-ray?

You want Hi-def video for your HDTV so you should also get a player with hi-def audio. The hi-def audio is the controversial part that is difficult because very few BD players on the market today are decoding or bitstreaming the high res audio formats.

Hi-res audio

Dolby Digital Plus, TrueHD, DTS-HD, DTS-HD Master Audio.
These are the new so-called lossless formats, they’re all either sampled at higher bit-rates than a CD, making them the equivalent to DVD-Audio in fidelity, or compressed in a lossless codec, meaning there is no loss of fidelity due to the software used to compress for storage on disc.

PCM 5.1. Is a completely lossless (same as CD audio quality) audio format. What was cool about Blu-ray is the extra space so it could add a PCM audio track.

PCM = Pulse Code Modulation. It’s a method of digitizing a sine wave that was invented around the time of radar in the 1930s.

All the player can decode PCM and send it via analog (RCA 5.1) to your receiver.

The trouble with most Blu-ray players:

Most Blu-ray player don’t decode or bitstream the new lossless audio codecs! And that sucks!

If a player were capable of decoding the new lossless audio codecs it should have analog 5.1 outputs in the back and any receiver with analog 5.1 inputs could receive the audio as decoded by the player.

This is the way to not have to spend a LOT of extra money buying a new receiver. Although looking for one that can decode is a tall order today. The only one I know of is the upcoming Panasonic DMP-BD50 and the Sony Blu-ray players that have been announced that will be out this summer.

On the other hand…

A player capable of bitstreaming the lossless audio codecs can only send it digitally via HDMI 1.3a (or better) to an A/V receiver with an HDMI 1.3a (or better) input that can decode the lossless audio codecs. There are several receivers on the market today that fit that bill but they’re all very new. The most cost effective today are the new receivers by Onkyo. You could get one that does the job for around $500.

That means at the time of writing this there are very few combinations of A/V products capable of giving its customers access to the new lossless codecs on a Blu-ray disc.

The only option you have are a few Blu-ray players (at the time of writing this) that can bitstream – your options are limited to:

Denon DVD-2500BTCI $999
Panasonic DMP-BD30 $499
Pioneer Elite BDP95FD $999
Samsung BD-P1400 $499

My own opinion for what it’s worth…

When bitstreaming, I personally don’t see any step up when spending the extra money on the $999 models. The unit isn’t decoding so its DACs are irrelevant. It’s just sending bits to your receiver for so I really don’t care if it’s a radio shack breadboard with a few ICs dangling from it. I’m of the bits-is-bits school. But then, I’m really not a dedicated audiophile.

I hope this helps. I gotta get up so I can’t spend time proof-reading right now. Feel free to ask any questions here and I’ll get on it.

**Sonnie** · **03-17-08, 12:12 AM**

Good info Wayde... thanks for posting!

**hddummy** · **03-17-08, 05:21 AM**

You'll definately want to do your homework before buying any of the new BD players, but here is a guide that might help you narrow your search.

http://www.idoblu.co.uk/page2%20Blu-ray%20Players.html

**Wayde** · **03-17-08, 07:21 AM**

It could have been better I suppose but it's a good starting point. I've been reading more and more people on the Shack are interested in Blu-ray and with good reason. I always felt HD DVD was superior but now that the war is over I'd like to see Blu-ray more mainstream so we get more and more movies in the format.

**dieselpower1966** · **03-17-08, 09:48 AM**

so what I read is that the Sony play station is actually the best blu-ray player available today albeit with a few quirks.
the page that hddummy posted a link to confirms this? or did I read that incorrectly?

dieselpower1966

**bobgpsr** · **03-17-08, 12:34 PM**

Quote:

dieselpower1966 wrote:

so what I read is that the Sony play station is actually the best blu-ray player available today albeit with a few quirks.

It consumes a lot of power (>200 watts), fans are noisy, does not output advanced audio codecs as raw bitstream and requires an oddball Bluetooth RF remote control. No analog audio 7.1 or even 5.1 output -- just multichannel linear PCM via HDMI or legacy lossy codecs via S/PDIF (optical Toslink). Plus it does not look like a normal audio/video component.

Other than that it is great -- considering its $399 price versus what you pay for the other BD players that can do profile 1.1 or even future 2.0 (BD-Live -- ethernet) with their prices. It can decode lossless Dolby TrueHD and send that losslessly, using multichannel linear PCM, to a HDMI audio input capable AVR.

**aerodude73** · **03-17-08, 01:22 PM**

Quote:

Wayde wrote:

Why Blu-ray?

You want Hi-def video for your HDTV so you should also get a player with hi-def audio. The hi-def audio is the controversial part that is difficult because very few BD players on the market today are decoding or bitstreaming the high res audio formats.

Hi-res audio

Dolby Digital Plus, TrueHD, DTS-HD, DTS-HD Master Audio.
These are the new so-called lossless formats, they’re all either sampled at higher bit-rates than a CD, making them the equivalent to DVD-Audio in fidelity, or compressed in a lossless codec, meaning there is no loss of fidelity due to the software used to compress for storage on disc.

PCM 5.1. Is a completely lossless (same as CD audio quality) audio format. What was cool about Blu-ray is the extra space so it could add a PCM audio track.

PCM = Pulse Code Modulation. It’s a method of digitizing a sine wave that was invented around the time of radar in the 1930s.

All the player can decode PCM and send it via analog (RCA 5.1) to your receiver.

The trouble with most Blu-ray players:

Most Blu-ray player don’t decode or bitstream the new lossless audio codecs! And that sucks!

If a player were capable of decoding the new lossless audio codecs it should have analog 5.1 outputs in the back and any receiver with analog 5.1 inputs could receive the audio as decoded by the player.

This is the way to not have to spend a LOT of extra money buying a new receiver. Although looking for one that can decode is a tall order today. The only one I know of is the upcoming Panasonic DMP-BD50 and the Sony Blu-ray players that have been announced that will be out this summer.

On the other hand…

A player capable of bitstreaming the lossless audio codecs can only send it digitally via HDMI 1.3a (or better) to an A/V receiver with an HDMI 1.3a (or better) input that can decode the lossless audio codecs. There are several receivers on the market today that fit that bill but they’re all very new. The most cost effective today are the new receivers by Onkyo. You could get one that does the job for around $500.

That means at the time of writing this there are very few combinations of A/V products capable of giving its customers access to the new lossless codecs on a Blu-ray disc.

The only option you have are a few Blu-ray players (at the time of writing this) that can bitstream – your options are limited to:

Denon DVD-2500BTCI $999
Panasonic DMP-BD30 $499
Pioneer Elite BDP95FD $999
Samsung BD-P1400 $499

My own opinion for what it’s worth…

When bitstreaming, I personally don’t see any step up when spending the extra money on the $999 models. The unit isn’t decoding so its DACs are irrelevant. It’s just sending bits to your receiver for so I really don’t care if it’s a radio shack breadboard with a few ICs dangling from it. I’m of the bits-is-bits school. But then, I’m really not a dedicated audiophile.

I hope this helps. I gotta get up so I can’t spend time proof-reading right now. Feel free to ask any questions here and I’ll get on it.

Are there are any Blu-Ray Player/RECORDERS out there?

**hddummy** · **03-17-08, 04:33 PM**

maybe as a drive in an HTPC...but not stand alone.

**mekkanic** · **03-18-08, 10:43 AM**

Quote:

bobgpsr wrote:

Fans are noisy

Actually it is really quiet....

**Sonnie** · **03-19-08, 01:16 AM**

Agree... I do not hear a thing from the fan on my 80GB unit.

I have a Universal MX-980 that controls all but power on and off, which is not really needed anyway. It powers on when you insert a disc and when I eject I power off then.

It does not fit in the rack well ... doesn't look normal, but it's pretty dark anyway in my HT room when watching a movie. My eyes are not looking at the equipment anyway. But for a shared room, like a great room or living room... it would not look right to me.

I have no idea if it would really be considered the best or not.

**Wayde** · **03-19-08, 09:20 PM**

PS3 generates crazy heat though. I had one for awhile and stepped behind my HT sytem and felt the exhaust. Man it was hot.

I know it's a very good BD player but personally I looked for an actual player. The lossless codecs were the most important thing to me and i wanted DTS HD MA which as far as I know is the one that PS3 can't do (yet).

**Sonnie** · **03-20-08, 02:17 AM**

I really would rather have a regular player as well. I am hoping oppo will come through reasonably.

**htaddikt** · **04-03-08, 02:01 PM**

You and me both. There is a rumor (another one) that BD prices are still quite high, creating a deterrent against a tide of players made in China. Maybe Sony and it's buds want to keep reaping in the profits.
Oppo would be an excellent choice.. hope they get it.
Wish they had done a duo player, bet it would have fewer problems.

**wbassett** · **04-03-08, 02:48 PM**

I thought about the Sammy dual player, or even building an HTPC centered around LG's PC super drive that plays everything, HD DVD, Bluray... but I couldn't justify the expense seeing I already have two HD DVD players and PS3.

I'll also concur that I am not bothered at all by fan noise. Then again my one equipment rack is around 12 feet from were I sit.

It does lack some audio perks that some other dedicate players can do. To some that is a deal breaker, to other's it's not, so it's a matter of preference.

The PS3 also plays DVD-Rs and +Rs flawlessly, and add in SACD as well. I like the comfort knowing it is probably the most update-able player out there, and then there's the minor

fact that it plays games too! Probably the biggest thing that will cause me to never swap my PS3 is the almost 1 terabyte of drive space I now have and soon will be adding more. I know some people get a funny look on their face and say 'You can't just walk over and put a disc in?' and yeah that's true, but I like putting TV series on the drives and then I can just pick and chose whatever I feel like watching whenever I feel like watching it. So far I haven't seen any dedicated players that have that capability.

In the end I guess it's a matter of what a person wants more, but seeing BD prices are still up there (and I have actually seen some go UP) the PS3 is still a very good value and a powerhouse as well. It also upconverts video from the external drives to 1080p.

Did I mention you can play games on it too?

**superchad** · **04-03-08, 04:41 PM**

Does the future Panasonic model or any do 7.1 multi channel RCA outputs, 5.1 isnt good enough for those of us with larger rooms.

**mekkanic** · **04-17-08, 08:03 PM**

Quote:

Wayde wrote:

PS3 generates crazy heat though. I had one for awhile and stepped behind my HT sytem and felt the exhaust. Man it was hot.

I know it's a very good BD player but personally I looked for an actual player. The lossless codecs were the most important thing to me and i wanted DTS HD MA which as far as I know is the one that PS3 can't do (yet).

wanted to keep this thread updated:

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2008/...e-walkthrough/

New PS3 firmware update now supports DTS HD MA

**MatrixDweller** · **04-22-08, 11:21 AM**

Quote:

Wayde wrote:

Why Blu-ray?

My own opinion for what it’s worth…

When bitstreaming, I personally don’t see any step up when spending the extra money on the $999 models. The unit isn’t decoding so its DACs are irrelevant. It’s just sending bits to your receiver for so I really don’t care if it’s a radio shack breadboard with a few ICs dangling from it. I’m of the bits-is-bits school. But then, I’m really not a dedicated audiophile.

All BD Players decode the audio. Some are just capable of re-encoding it to send it over HDMI as a Dolby True or DTS MA HD bitstream. A DAC is not involved in this process as it stays digital. The Denon DVD-2500BTCI transport doesn't have any DACs either and only has one HDMI output on the back. I would suspect that the quality of decoding/re-encoding would come into play. Whether the BD player or AVR does the final decoding and the differences in quality is something that has not been discussed/analyzed in any great detail.

**bobgpsr** · **04-22-08, 12:28 PM**

Rather some BD players can send the new audio codec (TrueHD, dts-HD MA, etc) raw audio bitstream "as is" right out the HDMI 1.3 port to the AVR for the AVR to decode. The player in this particular case does not decode or re-encode the audio.

Some have reported that the PS3 despite having HDMI 1.3 can not send raw bitstream out due to the particular Silicon Image HDMI transmitter IC that it uses. But the PS3 can decode TrueHD and recently now dts-HD MA internally and send it out as multichannel linear PCM to a HDMI (1.1, 1.2, 1.3) AVR.

**muzz** · **05-09-08, 04:09 PM**

Quote:

wbassett wrote:

I thought about the Sammy dual player, or even building an HTPC centered around LG's PC super drive that plays everything, HD DVD, Bluray...

This is where I sit right now.
I'd LOVE a great player that can decode ALL codecs internally, and output via ANALOGS.
SUPPOSEDLY the Panny BD50,and the Sony 550 will do this, panny will do 5.1, Sony 550 7.1.
GREAT!!.... ummmmmmmmm
Sony SA players seem to be utterly picky about the discs being played, and the Panny keeps getting pushed back....

Panny BD50 MSRP has jump to $699 as well.......

I'd LOVE a GOOD Dual format player, but it seems that NONE do what I have suggested above, and the LG and Samsungs seem to be a bit buggy as well.

I've considered the LG DF PC drives(I have an HTPC already hooked up, with an X-FI Xtreme Music via analogs), but it seems the software is weak, unfinished, and down mixes the audio over analogs....

Totally pathetic and unacceptable to me.... I've actually considered foregoing the Lossless codecs(I NEED analogs) and getting a PS3...

Unreal...........

I'm so glad that the "Peoples

choice" was Blu-Ray......now we can all wait till they see fit to deliver, and it'll cost an arm and a leg.........
HDDVD did all of this(including the equivalent of BD-Live-[HDi] which STILL isn't done and on the market yet) except for DTS-MA(in the states) 2 years ago........

Bah......I'm tired of this TBO, I just want a player that does what I NEED it to do.

BD won, OK.. now lets go, quit screwing around and give us what we need!!

**Sonnie** · **05-09-08, 06:25 PM**

Quote:

Bah......I'm tired of this TBO, I just want a player that does what I NEED it to do.

BD won, OK.. now lets go, quit screwing around and give us what we need!!

**hddummy** · **05-10-08, 05:05 AM**

The new pioneer player will do all you desire and at a cool 599................it's still way too freakin expensive.

**muzz** · **05-10-08, 09:15 AM**

It's funny that you mention the upcoming Pioneer player, I was shocked when I heard that it's MSRP is supposedly going to be lower than the BD50.
It'll probably be a better player too.
SUPPOSEDLY it'll be 1.1 with a firmware update to make it profile 2.0..

I don't like the sound of "Will be 2.0 via update", it's not even out, why not make it 2.0 now?

TBO, I really could care less about BD-Live and all that, my 2 year old Toshiba A-1 has had that internet stuff forever, and I have not, and will not, ever use it(EXCEPT to update FW- which I've also done via disc).
I just want the player to have internal Dacs to output the the newest Lossless codecs via analog for a reasonable price.

Is that too much to ask?

Edit: I just read that the Pioneer BDP-51FD will not be BD-Live capable(will not have ethernet either)... which is 100% fine with me...I'd rather they did what they did, and that's spend the $ on PQ/AQ.
That is the player I am actually waiting for...now if they just move and get it out!!

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