HD-DVD or Blu-Ray Player

[tonyvdb]

bsoko2 wrote:

Says who? Other forums agree that the BD30 is not as good at upconverting as the AX2. I looked at both on my set and the AX2 is better.

Bill

The BD30 dose not use the HQV Raon chip for upconversion so that would be why.

[Bob_99]

Richard W. Haines wrote:

I'm still having a problem adjusting my attitude towards home video collecting. Over the
decades, I've collected all sorts of things from silver age comic books to vintage monster magazines
to actual feature film prints in Technicolor. In each case it was a one time expenditure and
as a collection, they've gone up in value. The opposite is true for home video collecting.
It's a perpetual expediture and all of the old hardware and software is either obsolete or
of little or no value. Even within the same format, older DVDs are worthless compared to
the upgraded new transfers. For every favorite feature I'd like to own on DVD, I'll have to
keep buying it over and over again for the rest of my life in new formats and new transfers.
While the discs are individually cheap, I've ultimately spent a small fortune on them over
the decades in Betamax, VHS, Selectavision, Laserdisc and now HD DVD. It would appear
that there's no way around this. Blu-ray (derived from 4K transfers) will be around for a while and then be replaced by another higher definition format later (probably derived from 8K transfers).
It's possible that they'll add anamorphic enhancement to HD DVD 16:9 images so they can
spread out to the full CinemaScope/Panavision 2.35 ratio without any letterboxing of the image
or black pixels with an add on lens anamorphic lens to spread it out. They actually have a lens
and DLP that can do this now.



I guess the trick is for consumers to put aside a certain percentage of their income into a 'home entertainment' category to keep up with the changes and not get angry when their current collection of movies or equipment is rendered useless. I guess if you crunch the numbers, it's still cheaper than a family going to a megaplex at $10 a person plus overpriced concessions. And unlike a cinema presentation, when you
purchase a DVD you have a copy of the film that you can watch over again...for a while.

Very good points and I couldn't agree more although I didn't collect film, I can list marbles, bubble gum cards, golden age comics and now DVDs. Perhaps it's time to join NetFlix and let someone else worry about the format.

Bob

[Sonnie]

Hey guys... I moved several posts from this thread to The Official HD-DVD vs. Blu-ray Thread.

Please remember this thread is a poll thread asking which format player you will buy. I think many of these posts were getting off track and more in line with the other thread, thus my reasons for moving them.

[bsoko2]

tonyvdb wrote:

The BD30 dose not use the HQV Raon chip for upconversion so that would be why.

Again why do you think that the BD30 is better at upconverting then the AX2? Ax2 has the Silicon Optix Reon HQV for upconverting and the BD 30 also uses the Silicon Optix's HQV. However many reviews between the BD30 and the AX2 say that the Ax2 upconverts much clearer then the BD30.

Bill

[HomeTeam]

I got the Toshiba HD-A2, unfortunately not at the 99 dollar deal that Wal-Mart had, but I still got a pretty good deal on it and I've been very happy with it. Since the news of Warner's jump to Blu-Ray though, I've highly considered getting the 40 GB PS3 for the Blu-Ray player. The gaming part isn't a big deal to me (although I cannot wait until Metal Gear Solid 4 comes out), but with it being probably the most updated player out there makes it intriguing for me.

The problem for me now is there are some discs that I'm wanting to get that are HD-DVD exclusive right now like Battlestar Galactica and Heroes season 1 DVD's, its almost inevitable at this point that they're going to be on Blu-Ray at some point.

Either way though I don't regret the decision, I love watching them in high definition.

[MatrixDweller]

I'd love a format that would get rid of the optical disc all together. Flash media comes to mind. I guess the thing holding that back is backward compatibility. Discs will probably be around for quite some time because we have three generations of formats to play (CD, DVD and now BD/HD).

Richard you are right about the collecting aspect for the most part. There is a collectors market for vinyl and film, but that's because they are rare. Their condition degrades fast if care is not taken too so that adds more to the rareness of good specimens.

The deluxe platinum collectors edition DVDs are pumped out in the millions and the demand to collect really isn't there. DVDs and their cases are pretty durable. The card paper wrapped special editions need extra care, but the standard DVD case is protected in plastic. I don't believe there is an official grading scheme for used DVDs or VHS tapes either (other than Amazon's general scheme) so that tells you something about their collectibility also.

[wbassett]

MatrixDweller wrote:

I'd love a format that would get rid of the optical disc all together. Flash media comes to mind. I guess the thing holding that back is backward compatibility. Discs will probably be around for quite some time because we have three generations of formats to play (CD, DVD and now BD/HD).

I also mentioned memory cards as one possible evolution awhile back. It makes sense, no moving parts to wear out. When we were cable free for over three years, we used our DVD player extensively, probably more than most do and we actually burnt out the drive motor in several players.

As far as backwards compatability... it wouldn't be hard at all with flash memory cards. Many players have built in card readers right now. Yeah that would mean there are still mechanical items being used, but let's face it, DVD is going to be around for the next decade. I'm up around 1500 SDVDs now and most of those titles aren't available in a HD format. It will be quite some time before I don't have a DVD player in my house. I may have a newer format player, but I'll still have a DVD player as part of my system.

[imbeaujp]

And what about downloading ?

I think that de next step will be "no media".

But it will take a couple years...

[daniel]

I've bought last year a really cheap dvd player. My wife didn't want us to pay much for it. Yesterday she told me that she would like to have a better one.

Since I really wouldn't like to end up with a "betamax" dvd player, is there right now any high quality hd-dvd + blue-ray player on the market ( or multi-format including hd-dvd and blue-ray).

I don't want to be one of those who will pay for their format war.

[Funkmonkey]

Good poll. I find it interesting that HD-DVD seems to be the preference so far, I wonder if that would change if the poll were reset post Warner's announcement. I recently purchased an Oppo 981-HD to enjoy up-scaled SD-DVD until the whole format war is resolved, recent developments seem to reinforce my early preference for Blu-Ray. Most likely I will pick up a PS-3 before I get a dedicated player though.

[wbassett]

Greg I think it definitely would change as far as what people are most likely going to buy now, but not necessarily for what they like.

As far as Warner, I sometimes wonder what they will think after the 4th quarter HD DVD player sales numbers are finally in. Maybe they already knew the numbers but it really seemed a bit premature what they did. HD DVD players and movie sales were going up every month, and as I said previously, most of the people I know were buying more HD DVDs than Bluray, myself included.

I honestly thought my PS3 was going to end up being mainly a media/game system and HD DVD was going to pull way ahead, and I really do feel if Warner hadn't gone Bluray exclusive it would be a totally different landscape as far as the format war by the end of 2008.

The bottom line is Sony needed this bad. Toshiba was most likely poised for another price drop followed by gen 4 players later this year, and the way consumers were buying the A2 and then the A3 players, well like I said it really would have been a different landscape. Let's just say that mid 2007 Block Buster said they were going Bluray exclusive and then recanted that statement... same as Target, who after seeing HD DVD player sales go through the roof not only didn't drop HD DVD, but expanded the number of titles they carried, but still less than the number of Bluray titles. So yes all the HD DVD sales and price drops were having an affect. Warner always claimed they wanted to see everyone release on both formats, or at least a dual disc they were proposing- so I don't feel their decision was totally based on numbers like they said it was... well, maybe some financial numbers!

Toshiba should be saying something this week, in fact I am surprised nothing was said today. They really do need to make a statement, and make it soon. As far as most people I know though, they are saying this is definitely it and its over.

[bobgpsr]

wbassett wrote:

Toshiba should be saying something this week, in fact I am surprised nothing was said today. They really do need to make a statement, and make it soon. As far as most people I know though, they are saying this is definitely it and its over.

They did today:
http://www.tacp.com/news/newsarticle.asp?newsid=194

WAYNE, NJ - JANUARY 14TH, 2008
TOSHIBA DEPLOYS NEW HD DVD MARKETING INITIATIVES BASED ON STRONG FOURTH QUARTER UNIT SALES
Mass Market Acceptance Confirms that HD DVD is the Consumer's Choice for Next Generation High Def Entertainment

Toshiba America Consumer Products, L.L.C. (“Toshiba”) today announced that it is stepping up its successful marketing campaign for HD DVD as it experienced record-breaking unit sales in the fourth quarter of 2007. Major initiatives, including joint advertising campaigns with studios and extended pricing strategies will begin in mid-January and are designed to spotlight the superior benefits of HD DVD as well as the benefits HD DVD brings to a consumer’s current DVD library by upconvertingstandard DVDs via the HDMI™ output to near high def picturequality.

As Toshiba achieved the #1 sales volume in the next generation DVD category with an approximately 50% market share in 2007, HD DVD is proven to be the format of choice for consumers. Coupled with an 80% plus market share of all next generation DVD equipped notebooks for the 4th quarter 2007, the HD DVD format has already paved the way to high definition digital AV solution by eliminating the boundaries between the consumer’s living room and on the go.


HD DVD not only creates the ultimate high definition entertainment experience, leveraging all of the promise of the format such as superior audio/video performance, Web-enabled network capabilities and advanced interactive features – it also has a high-level of compatibility with DVD. With DVD upconversion via the HDMI™ output, HD DVD players instantly make a movie lovers existing DVD library look better than ever.

“HD DVD is the best way to watch movies in high definition,” said Jodi Sally, Vice President of DAV Marketing for Toshiba. “Our HD DVD players not only play back approximately 800 HD DVD titles available worldwide and deliver an entirely new level of entertainment, but also enhance the picture quality to near high definition on legacy DVD titlesby all studios. In short, we added hi def to DVD which already is the de facto standard format created and approved by the DVD Forum that consists of more than two hundred companies.

New Marketing Strategy for Mass Market Adoption

Taking the holiday season sales based on promotional prices into full consideration, these new manufacturer’s suggested retail prices (MSRP) are designed to meet the potential demand for HD DVD players in the US market. Effective on January 13, 2008 the MSRP of the entry-model HD-A3 will be $149.99, the HD-A30, with 1080p output, $199.99, and the high-end HD-A35, $299.99.

“While price is one of the consideration elements for the early adopter, it is a deal-breaker for the mainstream consumer,” said Yoshi Uchiyama, Group Vice President Digital A/V Group. “Consumer sales this holiday season have proven that the consumer awareness of the HD DVD format has been elevated and pricing is the most critical determinant in consumer’s purchase decision of the next generation HD DVD technology. The value HD DVD provides to the consumer simply cannot be ignored.”

Extended Advertising Campaign

Toshiba plans to execute an extended advertising campaign that will further enhance consumer awareness of the benefits of HD DVD and drive sales to retail among potential consumers. Advertising strategies will include television, print and online media channels. Toshiba will also work with its dealers and studio partners on joint marketing and promotional initiatives to promote HD DVD. Current promotions include “The Perfect HD Offer” – a mail-in offer allowing consumers to select five HD DVD titles for free from a selection of 15 with the purchase of any Toshiba HD DVD player.

Consistent Viewing Experience and More

With advanced interactivity and Web-enabled network capabilities built into every HD DVD player through a dedicated Ethernet port as mandated by the specifications approved by the DVD Forum, Toshiba delivers on the promise of a consistent entertainment experience through firmware updates as studios launch new applications. HD DVD allows studios to flex their creative muscle in ways never before seen. The latest of these new experiences is online streaming. Now, when consumers connect their HD DVD player to the Internet, they can stream new content or trailers, as available, directly from a movie studios server.

Universal Home Video, Paramount Pictures and DreamWorks Animation SKG have reported that an average of 30 percent of HD DVD owners have accessed Web-enabled network features and continue to do so regularly.

Ongoing Customer Commitment

In order to ensure that its customers will receive complete satisfaction from their new players, Toshiba introduced the "HD DVD Concierge" earlier this month. Consumers can now call 1-888-MY HDDVD (1-888-694-3383) for answers to general questions about HD DVD, for operational assistance or for assistance with various promotions.
...

[MatrixDweller]

If nothing I think Warner's move to Bluray has only heated up the competition and the result has been inexpensive HD-DVD players as already pointed out in the press release. It will also make the HD-DVD backers more innovative hopefully. I think there is still a lot of untapped potential in the online connectivity and the player's built in programmability (ie: games, menu systems, etc). Paramount denied that they would drop HD-DVD so there are still some major studios backing HD-DVD.

Don't throw the towel in yet, there is still a long way to the finish line.

[Richard W. Haines]

I'm about to throw in the towel with HD DVD. I purchased the HD XA2 on October 5, 2007
from Amazon. The first problem I had was the player drifiting out of synch. I contacted
Toshiba and they sent me the CD-ROM update to install and it seemed to fix the problem.
I just skimmed through the HD DVD of "The Aviator" yesterday and today had my family
over to screen it today and now the Toshiba won't output any video image from the HDMI,
the S-Video or even the component cable. On screen it says "No Signal". I hooked up
the Samsung standard DVD player and it outputs to the Optoma HD70 fine so it's not
the projector. I let the Toshiba cool off and tried again with both HD DVD discs that I
already screened along with standard DVD that I watched on it. Nothing. No video signal
at all although the sound plays. This machine is less than four months old and it's already
screwed up. In comparison, the old Samsung standard DVD player which I've been using
for years is still fine.


I just emailed Toshiba and hopefully they'll get back to me next week and not put me through
the wringer getting it fixed or replaced since it's still under warranty. Although when it worked
the image was great, I am very disappointed and frustrated with first the synch problem and
now the image not outputting to the DLP from any cable or out.

[tonyvdb]

Richard W. Haines wrote:

today and now the Toshiba won't output any video image from the HDMI,
the S-Video or even the component cable. On screen it says "No Signal".

Did it do this right after the firmware update? If you have an older crt tv one hook up to the composite out of the Toshiba and you should see the output. go into the setup menu and check the settings it changed the video output in the HDMI and my projector did not like it. It happened to me after I did the firmware update and thats what I had to do to get it to output video again via HDMI

[MatrixDweller]

I had that problem on a Samsung HD841 upconverting DVD player. I set the output to HDMI and chose to scale to 1080i but for some reason it didn't like it and then I couldn't get a signal on component or HDMI no matter what I did. I had to do a hard reset to get it back (had to hold down the power button and another key at the same time). Don't quote me but I think to do that on the XA2 you need to, from player being on, hold down the power button for 10 seconds. It