Samsung BD-UP5000 Duo HD Player

**Sonnie** · **01-25-08, 12:22 AM**

There is no hyperlink in that post... you might want to double check it if you meant to link something.

**denisincalif** · **02-01-08, 07:59 PM**

Quote:

denisincalif hope you're not being lead astray I am not responsible for any future shifty business decisions of Samsung!

Wayde,

Of course I won't blame you if this Samsung player turns out badly. I bought the thing with my eyes wide open.

When I ordered it Amazon estimated the shipping date would be February 5. But it came early and arrived last night (January 31). I unpacked it last night and hooked it up this morning, and now have a tale of woe for everyone to think about.

This is a long post, so here is a short summary:
1) The unit is defective. It will play standard definition DVD's, but won't play any high definition disk, Blu-Ray or HD DVD.
2) Samsung customer service seems to consist (based on the four people I interacted with today) of friendly people who want to help. They speak good (slightly accented) English. But they know next to nothing.
3) Samsung customer service was surprisingly fast. There was almost no time spent on hold.
4) They are trying to honor the warranty. The machine will be repaired at no cost for parts, labor, or shipping. (Estimated time is two to three weeks.)
5) If it comes back with any problems at all (other than the known problem of missing advanced audio support) I will insist on a refund. I will report back here when I get the unit back.

UPS delivered the player at 6:00 p.m. yesterday. I was too wiped out from work to do much more than unpack it. I did copy the serial number off the back of the machine and registered it on Samsung's web site. Today is my day off. So this morning I hooked it up. The first thing I noticed was that they include composite video/audio cables. Why on earth would anyone want these with this player?

I started by going through the system setup menus. I noticed that the available choices for network throughput included DSL/cable up to (but no higher than) 768 Kbps, some ISDN settings, dial-up modem settings, T1 at 1.5 Mbps, and "LAN" for 10 Mbps and up. My system is DSL at 3 Mbps. I wasn't sure whether it was best to use the highest DSL setting or the fastest setting below my actual speed (the T1 choice). So I called Samsung to ask. The lady I talked to was very nice, but had no clue what I was talking about. I wound up going with DSL at 768.

Perhaps unwisely, the next thing I did was not play a disk. Instead, knowing that a disk-compatibility firmware update came out one or two weeks ago, I had the machine check for an available update. Sure enough, one was there. So I clicked on "Start" and almost never took my eyes off the screen during the entire process.There was no hint of any problem. It took about 20 minutes to download the file. Then about 30 seconds went by while it validated the file. Processing took 3 or 4 minutes. Then a message came up saying updating was complete. A few seconds later the machine powered down. I am confident that this firmware update worked, and had nothing to do with what happened next.

I put in "Cars". After about a minute up came the message "This disk cannot be played". I was in a state of shock. But I knew that there are some disks the machine has trouble with, so I decided to try "Chicago" Same problem. Next I tried the first Pirates of the Caribbean. Still no luck. By this time I was certain the machine was useless. But I tried the HD DVD disk "Trading Places". Failure again. So three Blu-Ray and one HD DVD disk could not be played, and no disk I tried had worked. Just to help Samsung diagnose the problem, I next tried a standard DVD. It worked fine.

So I called Samsung again. The first person I talked to, after hearing about the firmware update, told me to reset the machine by holding the "Fast Forward" button down for 5 seconds. I did so, but it didn't help. The lady immediately passed me on to a second tier person.

The second tier person was a man. His first statement to me was that the firmware update had probably been unnecessary because the machine was probably up to date when it was delivered. And updating the firmware when it wasn't needed had caused the problem. This made no sense to me. The update wasn't released until mid-January and my machine was manufactured in December. The update process only proceeds if the firmware on-line is newer than what is in the machine. There was no indication of any error during the update. And even if the machine had already been updated, how can updating it again cause a problem? Writing over a file with the same contents wastes time, but can't change anything unless an error occurs during the overwriting.

Next he asked me if I had done the update over the Internet or if I had used a disk with the update burned on it. When I told him "Internet", he said that was good, because using a disk risks having an erroneous file because it is a copy of a copy. Unbelievable!!! The man seems to think firmware updates are analog! But in spite of his incompetence, he did have the courtesy to write up a repair order so I can get the machine serviced free of charge.

Thankfully I live in a big metropolitan area, and there is an approved service area 30 miles from my house. I drove over to the service center and dropped it off today, saving three or four days and the hassle of repacking it and shipping it. The check-in clerk was amazed by what I brought in. He not only had never seen this model before---he didn't even know it existed. Doesn't that inspire confidence? But he is not the actual repair person. I can only hope someone in the Samsung organization knows more than the four nice but clueless people I dealt with today.

When I get the machine back in two or three weeks I will check back in with the results.

Another (possibly unrelated) problem involves the serial number. The first lady I spoke with (about the throughput) asked me for it. I gave it to her, but she told me that number is not a valid one! Later, the second tier guy also asked for the serial number. I told him about the problem. He had me look at the box the player came in. It also had a serial number. It was different from the one on the machine. It was also invalid! So I have no idea what the serial number of this defective unit is. I am wondering if the unit I received was not, in fact, new. I wonder if it had been returned (because it was defective) and it got repacked in the wrong box. Regardless of why the box's number and the machine's number are different, I am flabbergasted that neither was valid!

One possibility which would explain the symptoms (no high definition playback possible, but standard definition works) would be if my TV was not HDCP-compliant. The cryptic error message "This disk cannot be played" sounds like something that might be generated by a failed HDCP check. But my TV is a 2006 model Mitsubishi DLP TV which says right in its owner's manual that it is compliant. And I have a friend with a slightly older Mitsubishi DLP TV and a Sony Blu-Ray player. They work together just fine (using HDMI, as I am). I am a little surprised that the second tier guy didn't mention this as a possibility. I have seen discussions over at AVS regarding the fact that many people with the BD-UP5000 have reported a variety of problems that are inconsistent. That is, given a particular Blu-Ray or HD DVD disk, most can play it but some can't. Different people had different problems with different movies. Finally someone mentioned that maybe the problem isn't due just to the player, but might involve a whole host of TV, disk, or even A/V cable compatibility issues. I am hoping that my problem is not due to some error in Samsung or Mitsubishi's implementation of HDCP. If it is, the BD-UP5000 would be a no-go for me. Actually, this explanation feels unlikely to me. But the symptoms and the error message are consistent with an HDCP problem.

**Sonnie** · **02-01-08, 11:39 PM**

That does not sound so good there Denis... but you seem to be pretty patient about it all.

**denisincalif** · **02-21-08, 05:06 PM**

In my previous post I promised to check back in when my 5000 came back from the repair shop. It just arrived yesterday, 19 days after I dropped it off. It works!

I haven't had time to thoroughly test it out, but I did play one HD DVD and one Blu-Ray last night, and both looked spectacular. I had no problems with audio drop outs or freeze ups. Obviously I will have to play a lot more discs before I can be sure all is well. But so far so good.

A lot sure has happened since I sent the machine in for repair! Three weeks ago we all knew HD DVD was in trouble. But I am amazed at how fast all support for HD DVD collapsed. As far as I know, Microsoft is the only company that hasn't officially dropped out of the HD DVD business. I have to assume that they will do so shortly.

I haven't taken a careful look at a standard DVD with the 5000 yet. I am anxious to see for myself if all the hype about the Reon chip is justified. If it is, and if Samsung comes through with the audio codec firmware upgrades as promised, then I will have one sweet machine which should last me until Blu-Ray machine prices have come down and standards have stabilized. Maybe, if satellite delivery services of 1080p movies succeeds and matures fast enough, I will never need another DVD player! (See XStreamHD web site.)

Of course, there is still no guarantee Samsung will support this machine all the way. If they don't I will be extremely upset, since I have come so close to something I have wanted for a very long time.

**htaddikt** · **03-24-08, 11:30 AM**

Any more news on this player? I am considering it with recent price drops (<$450 new). I understand Samsung is planning another firmware update in May.
It will bring the player fully up to 1.1 profile. AFAIK this player will never make it to 2.0. I get mixed reviews going around the web, but overall great picture and good audio with a few bugs apparently in work.

**jeffreybehr** · **03-24-08, 12:23 PM**

htaddikt, I've had mine since January and love it. I did one firmware upgrade painlesly but have NOT done the latest one as I understand there are problems with it.

For video, I use HDMI straight to the TV, a Samsung 67" DLP RPTV. For audio, I use the 6-channel analog outputs into my conrad-johnson MET1 preamp. Mine will NOT decode Dolby TruHD but will decode everything else.

**htaddikt** · **03-24-08, 12:38 PM**

Yes, the 1.2 upgrade was to fix a problem with the previous upgrade, from what I understand. Had to do with the ethernet fix.

Also, probably the last update is due in May for the codecs.

So getting standard Dobly 5.1 out to optical or coax is no problem, right?
That's always my fallback with no TrueHD..my receiver can only do video over HDMI not audio. But I do have 5.1 analog inputs too.

**jeffreybehr** · **03-24-08, 01:02 PM**

Quote:

htaddikt wrote:

So getting standard Dobly 5.1 out to optical or coax is no problem, right?

I have no idea; I don't use ANY digital-audio outs; I use only the 6-channel analog outs.

**htaddikt** · **03-24-08, 01:43 PM**

As long as it always outputs over analog, that is certainly a good option.
I guess bass management, etc. is limited though, within the player.

**denisincalif** · **03-24-08, 02:23 PM**

As I described earlier in this thread, I received my player from Amazon in late January. It was mostly non-functional. But since getting it back from the repair shop (costs covered by the warranty of course) I have been very happy with it. Video quality on HD DVD and Blu-Ray is excellent. So is the upconverting on standard DVD's.

I am not as qualified to comment on audio. I am waiting for the promised May firmware upgrade before I buy my sound system. At the moment I have both video and audio coming from my TV via a direct HDMI connection. I have also avoided buying and playing the known "trouble" discs, such as Sunshine. Everything I have played has played perfectly and there have been no issues regarding use of menus, fast forwarding, and chapter hopping that have been noted by some users. My impression is that the trouble discs are mostly very recent BD Profile 2.0-compliant discs. Such discs are supposed to be downward compatible, so that a 1.0 or 1.1 player can play the movie and the special features, just not do the interactive stuff. But the standard is so new and apparently unstable that many players (the BD-UP5000 among them) stumble on these discs and require firmware upgrades to be played properly.

Another problem seen by many users is short audio drop outs (a split second up to one or two seconds per event). These drop outs are especially common on standard DVD's. But I have never experienced any such problem. The audio performance of the 5000 on the lossy codecs varies all over the map. Many have lots of drop outs. Many others (like me) have none. Some have speculated that the problem is not in the player but in other components in the users' systems. Others speculate that the problem is simply bad quality control by Samsung. Nobody knows for sure.

As for the new lossles codecs (True HD and DTS HD MA), the 5000 as it stands today cannot handle them. It doesn't matter what audio output you use. This is the problem the May firmware upgrade is supposed to fix. But no one is sure whether the fix will be to allow straight bitstreaming of these codecs, permitting a receiver to decode them, or whether full decoding in the player will be provided. One feature that really bugs a lot of people is the fact that some discs provide only TrueHD as a selectable track. In such cases, if the player can't handle TrueHD a hidden lossy track is present and the player is supposed to use it. But the 5000, whose specs say that it handles TrueHD, "handles" it by providing TrueHD output in just two channels! It never looks at or uses the back-up 5.1 "hidden" track.

There have been three firmware upgrades released so far. The first, labeled 1.0, fixed a number of playback and navigation problems on some discs (such as Ratatouille). The next one, 1.1, was supposed to fix a few more playback problems including Sunshine. But it disabled the player's ability to connect to the Internet! Within a few days version 1.2 was released. It was identical to 1.1 (I think) except that Internet connectivity was restored. Reviews of the 1.2 firmware are mixed. I have not installed it myself, but will do so the first time I encounter playback problems with any disc.

This player has enormous potential. At $450 or so it is a steal, as long as you feel you do not need Blu-Ray 2.0 compliance and as long as you trust Samsung to come through with the May upgrade as promised. If Samsung fulfills its promises, you will have an HD DVD player as good as the best Toshiba ever sold, plus a Blu-Ray 1.1 player in the same box.

**htaddikt** · **03-24-08, 02:46 PM**

I really appreciate your analysis, Denis...very in-depth and complete.

By they way, my comment implying falling back on optical/coaxial or 5.1 analog was only respective to Dolby 5.1, not any lossless audio reproduction.
I understand the limitations in that regard, as far as the player (less any changes in May) and my own AVR's capabilities.

By the way, I had read on another forum that the 1.2 fix was to 'FIX' the 1.1 update.

**htaddikt** · **03-30-08, 03:34 PM**

UPDATE:
Have my new player... one freeze on BD movie 'Hit Man'.
I've had a similar freezes on my XA1, not common though.
Need to see if it will do it again, maybe the disk?
Tried assorted disks, all formats (but for Hit Man did not play them all the way through).
Not a single glitch.

Can not get internet access. Don't know why. Did the latest firmware upgrade (3/10/08) by burning an ISO Image from downloaded Sammy file.

On the plus side, machine is about twice as fast loading as my old XA1. Audio I am restricted to 're-encoding' which puts it out as DTS 5.1. Sounds fine though. Picture quality is excellent!
I would give it a notch above my HD DVD player.
So far so good....
will report more... build date: 01/08

**jeffreybehr** · **03-30-08, 06:21 PM**

Quote:

denisincalif wrote:

As for the new lossles codecs (True HD and DTS HD MA), the 5000 as it stands today cannot handle them. It doesn't matter what audio output you use.

As I've written elsewhere, my 5000 decodes and passes on EVERY audio codec but DolbyTrueHD. I have 20 hi-def discs with DTS HDMLA and it plays every one of them when I select that soundtrack. I'm using the analog outputs.

**seledka** · **03-30-08, 07:35 PM**

Before I bought it I've spent much time at sources like TestFreaks and read a lot of reviews and previews of this model. I purchased Samsung BD-UP5000 for $524.00 a couple of weeks ago and couldn't be more pleased.
Every format I've tried has looked wonderful. SD upscaling is beautiful.
Hd and BD are fantastic. I have had nary a glitch and I have found the load times to be fairly quick...and I tend to be impatient. It has performed admirably even without the update. I did download it but I'm afraid to take a chance on screwing things up if I install it. So far so good. I'll update this review if things change.

**htaddikt** · **03-30-08, 09:36 PM**

Re-played Hit Man today for a friend. No problem at all this time.
Player is quite sweet, hopefully future updates will keep it that way.

**bobgpsr** · **03-31-08, 08:22 AM**

Quote:

jeffreybehr wrote:

As I've written elsewhere, my 5000 decodes and passes on EVERY audio codec but DolbyTrueHD.

It decodes the two channel layer of TrueHD at this moment and may later do 5.1 TrueHD with a firmware upgrade.

Quote:

I have 20 hi-def discs with DTS HDMLA and it plays every one of them when I select that soundtrack. I'm using the analog outputs.

I understand that it just extracts the lossy core legacy 1.5 Mbps 5.1 channel dts portion that is always there -- not the lossless Master Audio layer yet. Yep you get 5.1 sound -- but once again you need a possible future upgrade to get the dts-HD MA in its full lossless glory.

**htaddikt** · **03-31-08, 02:42 PM**

Quote:

seledka wrote:

Before I bought it I've spent much time at sources like TestFreaks and read a lot of reviews and previews of this model. I purchased Samsung BD-UP5000 for $524.00 a couple of weeks ago and couldn't be more pleased.
Every format I've tried has looked wonderful. SD upscaling is beautiful.
Hd and BD are fantastic. I have had nary a glitch and I have found the load times to be fairly quick...and I tend to be impatient. It has performed admirably even without the update. I did download it but I'm afraid to take a chance on screwing things up if I install it. So far so good. I'll update this review if things change.

My experience is similar. The WEP setting on my ethernet wireless converter was corrupted, now internet access is enabled.
One glitch during a playback of a BD (Hit Man) which I could never get to repeat.
I've only had this puppy 3 days, so a lot more disks to shove into it. But have done a sampling of all formats. Jury is out if the upconversion is as good as my Toshiba XA1, but since there is a lot variability in disk quality, that may take a little longer to assess.

FWIW, my recommendations so far:

Leave "Anynet+" disabled.
Leave off any enhancements.
I use the re-encode setting for audio, to process everything as DTS.
I have the 5000 programmed to power up last in my Harmony macro. Some say this precludes a possible
HDMI handshake problem.

I did the update (via disk, ethernet was not working at the time) and did not do enough playing around before to notice any differences.
Functionally, this player is 100%, and the video presentation is very impressive!

build date 1/08

**denisincalif** · **03-31-08, 03:40 PM**

Another bonus, which is extremely important to me and a few other people, is the ability of the 5000 to play DVD-R and DVD+R disks. You may think this ought to be automatic in this day and age, but it isn't. Several of the Sony BD players can't do it, for example.

The odd thing is that the 5000 specs explicitly mention DVD-R support, but do not mention DVD+R. Yet it plays DVD+R just fine. Apparently this is a common phenomenon with many modern DVD players. But I know that several years ago DVD+R was often not supported even when DVD-R was. I wonder why many manufacturers ignore DVD+R when listing what their machines can play.

**Wayde** · **06-19-08, 11:38 AM**

Is anyone still using the 5000? I hear the patch is out and that people are using it with the new lossless audio codecs. From what I gather it's not outputting the decoded lossless audio over the analog outputs though, only bitstream to a receiver through HDMI... or maybe it's decoding it and sending it through HDMI in PCM, I'm not sure.

I still have like 20 HD DVDs. If this unit works as promised I might consider looking for one again someday.

**htaddikt** · **06-19-08, 12:26 PM**

Quote:

Wayde wrote:

Is anyone still using the 5000? I hear the patch is out and that people are using it with the new lossless audio codecs. From what I gather it's not outputting the decoded lossless audio over the analog outputs though, only bitstream to a receiver through HDMI... or maybe it's decoding it and sending it through HDMI in PCM, I'm not sure.

I still have like 20 HD DVDs. If this unit works as promised I might consider looking for one again someday.

Seems to work as promised through analog 5.1 on the last TrueHD disk I played.

**jeffreybehr** · **06-19-08, 02:14 PM**

Quote:

Wayde wrote:

Is anyone still using the 5000? I hear the patch is out and that people are using it with the new lossless audio codecs. From what I gather it's not outputting the decoded lossless audio over the analog outputs though, only bitstream to a receiver through HDMI... or maybe it's decoding it and sending it through HDMI in PCM, I'm not sure.

I still have like 20 HD DVDs. If this unit works as promised I might consider looking for one again someday.

"Is anyone still using the 5000?" Huh? I imagine there are tens of thousands of us out

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