The Official HD-DVD vs. Blu-ray Thread

[Bob_99]

Richard W. Haines wrote:

According to an article on the internet movie database, Warner announced that they will drop
HD DVD and release new titles in Blu-Ray exclusively. They've been releasing movies in both
formats to date. That just leaves Universal and Paramount as HD DVD exclusive. Some studio
spokesman also announced that they would prefer if everyone is forced to pay to download
and/or screen movies via the internet rather than own a hard copy. Studios never liked
consumers owning a hard copy of their movie and would prefer you pay to watch it each time
you see it regardless of whether it's in a theater or at home. If this comes to pass, I'll return
to film collecting again but hopefully the 'internet exclusivity' concept for the future will bomb
just like DIVX did in the past. One of the reasons I got involved with collecting film prints back
in 1985 was because I had been so burned in electronic formats like Beta and Selectavision
(and ultimately laserdisc). The reason I recently purchased the Toshiba HD XA2 player was
because WB had so many of the titles I wanted in their library. Now I'm forced to purchase
a Blu-Ray player to see them.

NPR did a short report yesterday regarding the west coast CES and reported the same thing about Warner Brothers. The person being interviewed indicated that BR had better disc protection which was part of the reason for the decision. The overall conclusion was that this put BR ahead of HD although supporters of HD say that the war isn't over yet. I agree with your point of view regarding DIVX and ownership but unfortunately I'm not sure many people have the same access to film prints that you do.

Bob

[wbassett]

Bob/Richard...

I said this in another thread too-

My biggest fear in the whole format war thing isn't Sony winning or HD DVD winning, but us losing. If two formats remain and studios are divided, then mass consumer adoption will be slow to happen if at all. That leaves the door cracked for inferior download/On Demand content that ultimately will cost more and deliver inferior quality. Granted mp3's don't cost 'more', but quality did take a hit and a lot of people don't realize it. I don't ever expect to see movie prices drop to that of mp3's so we would have a lesser quality product at a premium price, and as I said, that is my fear.

That really is my biggest concern. We got fed up with cable, prices, content, commercials, so back in 2004 we went cable free until October of this year. I can say this with first hand experience that DVD, HD DVD, and BD is better quality than cable, even their so called 'High Definition' doesn't look as good as either HD disc format. On demand is buggy and movie selections are slim unless I want to start to do PPV on demand movies. The thing is if I like a movie, I will watch it repeatedly over the years that I own it. Some movies I may not have seen in several years, but if the mood strikes me, I can take it off the shelf and throw it in... no PPV expense and no content availability issues.

I can't speak for satelite delivery, but cable High Def isn't as good, and that is what I see as the 'replacement' format. I mentioned "ultimately it will cost more and deliver inferior quality" and I really feel that way. Some may ask 'How could it cost more? Well in just this one respect and example- We dropped cable and dish for three years. If we decided to do that again (I find myself only watching Discovery, History, and The Learning channel again, content hasn't improved much on the other channels in the past three years) and if things go to an 'on demand' type system, we'd be forced to sign up for a service again.

In the long run I don't see disc media going away though. Block Buster, Netflix, Hollywood Video would all be out of bussiness, and they aren't going to sit around and just let that happen.

I either want to see one format, or all movies on both formats. Ultimately if all movies were out on both formats, the public would decide and eventually there would be one format, but one that the consumer's truly picked.

[Bob_99]

The thing is if I like a movie, I will watch it repeatedly over the years that I own it. Some movies I may not have seen in several years, but if the mood strikes me, I can take it off the shelf and throw it in...

I'm glad to see that I'm not alone in this respect. My wife always questions me as to why I watch movies again after I've already seen them and I've tried to explain it to her but I don't think she completely understands.

Bob

[MrPorterhouse]

Bob_99 wrote:

I'm glad to see that I'm not alone in this respect. My wife always questions me as to why I watch movies again after I've already seen them and I've tried to explain it to her but I don't think she completely understands.

Bob

Me too. My wife is a one and done person. I, on the other hand, like to have movies around for that certain moment when I'm in the mood, or maybe we're having a get together and talking about a "remember that one movie when..." moment. If you've got the disc, then you can just throw it in and enjoy, and with high def media, you can enjoy it in the best possible medium availible.

[Richard W. Haines]

As a filmmaker, I'm always popping on discs to study how a director covered a scene or
edited it. Or if I'm in a foul mood, I'll put on "The Wild Bunch" and watch the massacres.
If I want to zone out, I'll watch the climax of "2001: A Space Odyssey" or the musical
numbers from "The Gang's All Here". If I need something to pick my spirits up, I'll watch
the toga party in "Animal House".

[wbassett]

I'm 'so bad' at preferring disc over broadcast that if a movie comes on cable, generally we have it on disc and I end up throwing that in... especially if it's a network broadcast with commercials! ugh!

[Richard W. Haines]

Returning to the original discussion, it seems highly unlikely that HD DVD format can survive with
only Universal and Paramount exclusive releases. As of now, there are few films available on HD
DVD from either studio.

[MatrixDweller]

Did Warner Bros give a reason for dropping HD-DVD?

[imbeaujp]

I think that war is not over yet. Someone told me that the bigest movie industry (pornographic) chose HD DVD...

[wbassett]

They said it was business reasons. They looked at the overall market and felt that more consumers have decided on Bluray. Going by the numbers they felt it was to their best financial interests.

[muzz]

Business reason alright....... bah

Put ALL content on BOTH formats, and see what the people decide..

No question in my mind, and I spend alot more $ than the average Joe.

[John Simpson]

Wow, this thread just gets more and more fascinating.

I think HD is entrenched, so I doubt Blu-Ray discs will ever go away -- especially in places like Australia, where high-speed broadband is not the norm (and usually throttled back once you exceed your monthly limit). HD movies by internet just aren't viable here.

And as Bill says, the rental stores need some sort of physical format to rent, and discs are widely accepted as the media of choice.

The worst thing if HD-DVD leaves us will be the lack of competitive force it exerted in the HD market. Those 3-for-2 and 2-for-1 movies sales were terrific, and I doubt they will continue if HD-DVD disappears (at least until HD is mainstream). Oh well...

[Richard W. Haines]

Paramount just dropped out of HD DVD. That leaves Universal. It's a dead format and I wasted $500 on the Toshiba HD XA2. I should start a museum of expensive obsolete formats.


Let's see if the prices on Blu-ray players drop further or go way up since there's no more competetion. Hopefully they'll continue to drop below the $300 price since it's in their interest to try to establish the format for consumers. I don't think the studios and hardware manufacturers realize that the reason that standard DVD caught on so quickly was not because of the superior quality to VHS and laserdisc but because it was so cheap. Both players and discs are inexpensive and that's what the average consumer (as opposed to videophile) cares about. So they need to drop Blu-ray to the same price as a standard DVD and the players have to come down to about $100 or less. I'll buy one soon but first I have to get past my anger of spending so much for Toshiba player. Since I got burned decades ago with
Betamax, Selectavision and Laserdisc, I feel especially foolish for not waiting.
I hope I learned my lesson this time. The next time there is a format war in
the future (some higher definition unit and discs), I'll certainly wait until the
corporate politics play out and the winner is established. I am very glad
that I continue to shoot my features in 35mm and not in some digital format doomed
to obsolesence in the long run.

[Sonnie]

Paramount just dropped out of HD DVD.

Has this been officially announced and is there a source other than blog rumors?

[bsoko2]

Richard W. Haines wrote:

Paramount just dropped out of HD DVD. That leaves Universal. It's a dead format and I wasted $500 on the Toshiba HD XA2. I should start a museum of expensive obsolete formats.


Let's see if the prices on Blu-ray players drop further or go way up since there's no more competetion. Hopefully they'll continue to drop below the $300 price since it's in their interest to try to establish the format for consumers. I don't think the studios and hardware manufacturers realize that the reason that standard DVD caught on so quickly was not because of the superior quality to VHS and laserdisc but because it was so cheap. Both players and discs are inexpensive and that's what the average consumer (as opposed to videophile) cares about. So they need to drop Blu-ray to the same price as a standard DVD and the players have to come down to about $100 or less. I'll buy one soon but first I have to get past my anger of spending so much for Toshiba player. Since I got burned decades ago with
Betamax, Selectavision and Laserdisc, I feel especially foolish for not waiting.
I hope I learned my lesson this time. The next time there is a format war in
the future (some higher definition unit and discs), I'll certainly wait until the
corporate politics play out and the winner is established. I am very glad
that I continue to shoot my features in 35mm and not in some digital format doomed
to obsolesence in the long run.

I have both formats and if HDDVD tanks, I'll use the AX2 for watching standard DVDs. There is no Blu-Ray player that can upconvert as well as the AX2.

Bill

[Richard W. Haines]

Not officially announced but covered in the London Financial Times coupled with the fact that
Paramount dropped HD DVD announcements of upcoming titles whereas the other studios
posted their product at a trade show the other day. Even if Paramount hangs in there for a while, there's no way the format can survive with only two studios and porns supporting it. In terms of the latter, does the superior resolution really make a difference for that type of programming?
In theory Warner is supposed to continue to release HD DVD titles until May but I doubt that
will happen unless the discs have already been manufactured and are ready to ship. Will the stores
stock them?

Needless to say, Toshiba will probably try to put a spin on it and persuade people that the
format is alive...at least until they dispose of their current inventory of machines and the
distributors sell off the remaining discs out there. I think unless there is a major turnaround
by Warners or the other studios change their positions, it's safe to say it's a dead format.

[Sonnie]

Oh... okay... the Financial Times rumors were denied by Paramount. We've already posted all about that. I just don't want to mislead anyone by making a statement that "Paramount just dropped out of HD-DVD" when that has not been officially announced and we don't know that to be fact. While it may happen, it has not officially happened yet and Paramount has only denied that rumor thus far.

[MrPorterhouse]

Sonnie wrote:

Oh... okay... the Financial Times rumors were denied by Paramount. We've already posted all about that. I just don't want to mislead anyone by making a statement that "Paramount just dropped out of HD-DVD" when that has not been officially announced and we don't know that to be fact. While it may happen, it has not officially happened yet and Paramount has only denied that rumor thus far.

That's correct, Sonnie. Nothing official yet regarding Paramount. The date for the announcement that is floating around is Jan 10, 11, or 12. Universal is rumored to have a contract with HD DVD through January 2008. Universal is rumored to make some sort of announcement regarding Blu-ray within the next month or so. They may also be a part of the Paramount discussions, but its shaking down right now, as we speak(type/read).

[jefft1314]

Reports yesterday from CES indicate that Universal has decided to opt out of supporting HD-DVD exclusively. They'll continue release movies on the format until May, at which point, it's unclear if they'll start supporting Blu-Ray as well, or turn to exclusively supporting Blu-Ray.

HD-DVD is dead, and it's a sad day.

[wbassett]

Toshiba really needs to make a press release even if it's to concede. I'm not really upset that they didn't say anything this week, I'm sure they've been in meetings all week over this.

They have to say something next week though or the lack of response is going to be taken as a response by most people. If this is true about Universal, I honestly can't see how HD DVD can survive. Toshiba has a way to somewhat not lose their shorts and that would be for them to make a dual format player so HD DVD movie owners aren't left with a useless library in the event their current player dies... but even offering legacy support and compatibility, after a few years even that gets dropped.

Has there been any official confirmation/press release about Universal, and any official word from Paramount? Those two are the last heavy hitters left in camp.

[Sonnie]

It would really be nice to hear some official announcements of some sort.