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| Home Audio Acoustics My GIK Pillar Trap ReviewDiscuss My GIK Pillar Trap Review in the Home Theater Installation and Systems forum; My GIK Pillar Trap Review Placing the 244's over my stage now gives me reults I like. I moved out the subwoofer out from between ... |
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Views: 2511 - Replies: 127
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| | #26 | ||||
| Re: My GIK Pillar Trap Review Placing the 244's over my stage now gives me reults I like. I moved out the subwoofer out from between the stage, placed insulation in there instead, and placed the other couch back in since I had a complaint about that. Checking the ceiling above the back row there is zero abrorption back there. I found some blankets that I stuffed up in the corners. This is with four 244's across the front stage with some pink behind them in the center, a small amount of pink laying on the back center wall above the sub there, and the seats, and subs moved again. The stage has a 1 3/4" thick peice of plywood added to the top. The roll-off of the subwoofers in the front of the room looks really good. There are a few tiles missing in the back of the room. Front row with a quick setup. No eq was done, and it doesn't look equalizable. ![]() The back row looks scarry now. I have never seen such a lack of extention back there. This was without the small absorption on the back wall. ![]() | ||||
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| | #27 | ||||
| Re: My GIK Pillar Trap Review Sorry - been buried. I'll do some checking today. Bryan | ||||
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| | #28 | ||||
| Re: My GIK Pillar Trap Review The highs didn't sound right. The best I could get it to sound was when I placed two 244's at the first reflection points with and additonal one stacked on each pair horizontal, then placed the 2" around my surrounds. | ||||
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| | #30 | ||||
| Re: My GIK Pillar Trap Review Here is my 2" on the front wall give or take some adjustments. I had to roll the High Power Screen against the wall while feeding the foam into it and then placing it back into my original box with a foam tube I wrapped in paper towls. The screws holding the frame in place are stripped and my drill will not open to put in a new bit. I have a second frame which was originally designed for it becuase this was a replacement screen from when I had help painting the room and they had painted the previous one on accident. ![]() | ||||
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| | #32 | ||||
| Re: My GIK Pillar Trap Review Actually, I went to call and realized I don't have the contact info in my new phone. Going back through my files from last year to get the info. Bryan | ||||
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| | #33 | ||||
| Re: My GIK Pillar Trap Review I burned some custom ticks and beats to CD and I notice that placing absorption at the side walls in the middle corrects some coloration in the 80Hz area where it instead of sounding localizable from the front to the back of the room it sounds like it is more in phase. I notice that the 250Hz seems to reflect of my ceiling and bounce to the floors corners with some build up there. There is some higher pitched reverberation that seems to dominate on the right side of the room in the front, and the left side of the room in the back. This seems related to the second reflection points. If I were to address these problems, I wonder if adding standard R19 insulation in the back of the room would sound alright and less punchy. | ||||
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| | #34 | ||||
| Re: My GIK Pillar Trap Review Very interesting. I checked the reference material for which I had the problem with and placing some the 244's at the side walls midpoints the bass sound very even thoughout the room now but there is some deep sounding bass? from the left or right channels. It does not feel distracting that way. That has to be something with the 244's on the front wall. I think I just need some more 244's and I have listened to alot of material with them at each location, so I will go ahead and order a couple more pair of those for now unless anyone would suggest otherwise. | ||||
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| | #35 | ||||
| Re: My GIK Pillar Trap Review I don't have any experience with the 244s, so I cannot offer suggestions. As posted elsewhere, all of mine are Monsters. It seems that we both have done our share recently to keep GIK in business ![]() I notice that your avatar lists media reviewer. Is that your profession? Is your room used in your business? I am an electrical engineer in nuclear power generating plant design. I always envisioned a career in electronics, but when I graduated from college in 1971, the space program was almost over and few electronics firms in the Southeast were hiring. So, power engineering pays the bills for the electronics addiction ![]() | ||||
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| | #36 | |||||
| Re: My GIK Pillar Trap Review Quote:
I recently took a trip up midwest and got THX certified. A couple summers ago I had inventation from the academy awards to review movies which I would have taken but my family wanted me to have a "normal" job. I might have to write them back to see if they are still interested or not some time. | |||||
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| | #38 | ||||
| Re: My GIK Pillar Trap Review I think you will be pleased with the performance. At least on paper, they are quite a bit more effective in the lower octaves than the 244s. Bryan indicated that stuffing some pink insulation behind them may improve absorption performance in the lowest bass. I haven't tried that yet. There is about an inch or so gap at the back of the trap between the back of the material and the back edge of the frame. I suppose the intent is to provide that as an air space even if the trap is pushed against the wall. That may even be there on the 244s. Something to remember is that GIK will make a custom size of any of their traps for a very nominal fee (I suppose as long as it is within the 24x48 standard). And if you buy more than one, the surcharge for the other custom ones of the same size is even less. | ||||
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| | #39 | |||||
| Re: My GIK Pillar Trap Review Quote:
I could see the Monsters helping above the 244's at the first reflection points or on the front wall. Since I can freely move the speakers I'm not sure I would benifit having them at the first reflection points. My speakers mostly are performers in the mid-bass area although they do go down to 28Hz. It's all these subwoofers in a concrete room that are so difficult. Having the subs at each walls midpoint is suppossed to loose around 12dB - 18dB that way, but I think that I did not loose near that much. | |||||
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| | #40 | ||||
| Re: My GIK Pillar Trap Review Replaced a tile on my ceiling with a panel, moved insulation from the front stage (except corners) to the rear of the room, placed left reflection point panels on the stage with the other 244's and took the other 2" panel at the top of the screen wall into the other room to at least maintain symmetry on the front wall. I lost a couple decibals of SPL and equalized to a lower target loosing some headroom but I'm not sure how much. I turned my subwoofer level up so that is nearly +4 higher than the mains. I probobly should just eq to 25Hz which I may do next time but I thought it might be interesting to equalize some around the first room mode. This one is +-9dB. What is more important is what this sounds like. ![]() ![]() | ||||
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| | #41 | ||||
| Re: My GIK Pillar Trap Review I had thought about putting a couple of Pillar or Table Top traps in the room to replace two tables that I removed. I would be interested in your take on the peformance of the Monster vs. the Pillar. From the website, it seems they are similar since there is absorption from all sides on the Pillar. I am still simply amazed at the difference traps made in my room. Wife and I watched AI last night and I kept having to turn the sub down (and the volume down on some singers ). The bass is so much more omnidirectional now, probably due to taming peaks in the mid bass more than anything else. | ||||
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| | #42 | |||||
| Re: My GIK Pillar Trap Review Quote:
I think that I will have to measure/listen to the performance of each in a different room to base my opinion on the two, but I'm not entirely sure. With the Pillar Traps I just move them around the room and listen to the improvements, then measure. It was much easier than to measure, place them, then have to move them again to improve the results. It's not as quick a proccess to do that with the 244's, but if the Monsters are close to being like the Pillars, setup should be simple. | |||||
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| | #43 | ||||
| Re: My GIK Pillar Trap Review This is with 3 GIK 244's hung vertical at the first reflection points on each left or right wall, the 2" panels along the stage, Pillar Traps in the front corners with the insulation under them, added insulation inside the right ceilings corner, and insulation in the corners inside the Helmholtz Resonators in the back. I removed the reflective board in the ceiling above the left center and right speakers as well. This gave me a large dip from the ports at the bottom of the speakers again. ![]() I measured at 12" for the left speaker, then again at the floor. ![]() I borrowed a 244 from the furthest first reflection point on the right wall and placed it on the floor horizontal next to the speaker, then remeasured. I then measured from the seat again. I looked at the the back row and the front row again. The Monster traps should be here tommorow. I still think I need another pair of 244's after seeing this problem come up again, and treating the back wall and front wall could wait. Suggestions are welcome, and I am undecided after several days of thinking about this which is more important. I tried with the insulation behind a couple of the 244's. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ||||
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| | #44 | ||||
| Re: My GIK Pillar Trap Review I am sure you thought of this already, but take some measurements of the 244 vs. Monster in the same location. It would be interesting to see how well the performance difference in your room correlates to the test reports. The test reports are what convinced me to go all Monster, since I was starting from scratch with traps and needed to maximize absorption per unit size. I suppose there is a tradeoff, tho. Absorption distributed thruout the room vs. more concentrated absorption at fewer places. | ||||
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| | #45 | |||||
| Re: My GIK Pillar Trap Review Quote:
![]() The back of my rooms corners effect the same frequencies, which is why I placed some insulation there. | |||||
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| | #46 | ||||
| Re: My GIK Pillar Trap Review This morning I have done my best to decouple the subwoofers from the side walls. The side walls are not attached to the ceiling except in small areas with caulk to prevent rattles, that are partially sealed off using fabric. The left wall is staggered, and the right, front, back walls are semi staggered with the framing attached to the concrete using liquid nails. Each board inside the HT is caulked or glued then nailed into place. The subwoofer in the back I removed the stage, then sat the subwoofer on half dozen or so concrete tiles that I surrounded with insulation. The side ones I cut a hole under the Subdudes, added more insulation, then screwed them into the platforms using many nails so that I could space them from the wall, allowing the ports to breath. There is some area to absorb some energy from the ports on the side walls as well. The insulation will later be covered in fabric and I will refinish the subwoofers eventually with paint instead of the layer on them. ![]() ![]() This should help for the testing purposes, and I might gain back some acoustic energy from the subwoofers. | ||||
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| | #47 | ||||
| Re: My GIK Pillar Trap Review Here are the test results with the traps next to my main speakers ports at the floor on concrete. I placed a 244 or Monster in each corner in front of the corner trapping laying horizontal on the floor. They were beside the bottom of the 244's and spaced from the wall the distance of the 244's but the 244's are not perfectly flat against the wall. I measured each speaker with and without the subwoofers on, the subwoofers by themselves, and then repeated the test for each different trap. When a different trap was tested, it was removed from the area and brought into the house, not into the lobby next to the theater. The mic was not moved, and levels were not adjusted. You can click the thumbnails to see the larger images. 244 Traps right no subs 244 1 sweep at 256K 1/24 smoothing ![]() right xo 244 1 sweep at 256K 1/24 smoothing ![]() left no subs 244 1 sweep at 256K 1/24 smoothing ![]() left xo 244 1 sweep at 256K 1/24 smoothing ![]() before equalization subwoofers with 244 traps5 sweeps at 256K ![]() Monster Traps right monster no subs 1 sweep at 256K 1/24 smoothing ![]() right monster xo 1 sweep at 256K 1/24 smoothing ![]() left no subs monster 1 sweep at 256K 1/24 smoothing ![]() left xo monster 1 sweep at 256K 1/24 smoothing ![]() before equalization subwoofers with monster traps 5 sweeps at 256K ![]() example subwoofer equalization with monster traps 1 sweep at 256K ![]() example after subwoofer equalization with one main 1 sweep at 256K ![]() | ||||
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| | #48 | ||||
| Re: My GIK Pillar Trap Review Interesting. Looks like narrower ringing frequency distribution in the 23-24 Hz range with the Monsters but with a higher amplitude. I think that happened in my room for the mods done last weekend. However, on mine the whole amplitude from 20-40 or so went up on the FR response plot. I am not seeing that on yours, unless you normalized the volume. How many filters did it take to flatten the FR? Looks good. | ||||
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| | #49 | ||||||
| Re: My GIK Pillar Trap Review Quote:
Quote:
More on that here. To measure a more accurate reading I use a CD that I burned with REW of Pink PN in my CD player to check things when I am happy with results I get in the sweeps. I didn't touch any volume except that I calibrated levels of the mains to the target before I began measuring while I had the 244's in place. The settings were pre/pro master gain -10, subwoofer 0, mains +3 or +2. I have the gain turned up in REW so that it is a 75dB target instead of raising the gain on my pre/pro and lowering the volume in REW for the 85dB target. Last edited by thewire; 02-17-09 at 08:15 PM.. | ||||||
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| | #50 | ||||
| Re: My GIK Pillar Trap Review I think that I see what you are saying about being effective down at 40Hz. In my measurements if I zoom in to 40Hz - 200Hz, and then lower the graph down I can see that there is a pretty effective amount of absorption around that range in the waterfall graphs. yellow = Monster Traps blue = 244 Traps ![]() | ||||
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