My GIK Pillar Trap Review

**bpape** · **02-28-09, 09:39 AM**

You can try it but it kinda defeats the purpose of a good sub. Build a decent hushbox around the PJ that's solid and then have a suspended platform (like a board on foam or something) inside the box. That will damp the low frequencies coming from the box itself and still isolate the PJ from airborne waves somewhat.

Bryan

**thewire** · **02-28-09, 05:03 PM**

Quote:

bpape wrote:

You can try it but it kinda defeats the purpose of a good sub. Build a decent hushbox around the PJ that's solid and then have a suspended platform (like a board on foam or something) inside the box. That will damp the low frequencies coming from the box itself and still isolate the PJ from airborne waves somewhat.

Bryan

Thanks Bryan. My old hush box placed above the subwoofer would cause a dip of around 5dB around 40Hz. I will see what we can do otherwise with different materials. The subwoofers don't have usuable response bellow 18Hz.

**thewire** · **03-01-09, 08:01 PM**

It looks like a ceiling mount would only run me 30 dollars and shipping. That is near five times cheaper than my CRT ceiling mount was. Amazing! I did not realize these were so cheap. I may end up doing that instead. I also don't see much option for the back wall except to hang a curtain, blanket, or new panels. I have never seen anyone successfully build a rear wall projector booth (without being in a next room) with results that worked for acoustics. I have only seen them go back to have it corrected by the pros, something I would like to avoid having to do myself, or having to hire someone to correct later. It looks like I still have enough fabric that I will need.

**hjones4841** · **03-02-09, 05:57 AM**

I don't know what projector you are going to hang, but I would be very wary of a $30 ceiling mount. The good ones (Chief, Peerless) are $150-170 or so. Even at that price, there are really bad ones. When I got my Sony PJ in December, I ordered a mount from a place in Canada - sure looked great on the web. When I hung the projector it was very wobbly. I ended up modding my old NEC mount and re-using it.

**thewire** · **03-02-09, 10:29 PM**

Quote:

hjones4841 wrote:

I don't know what projector you are going to hang, but I would be very wary of a $30 ceiling mount. The good ones (Chief, Peerless) are $150-170 or so. Even at that price, there are really bad ones. When I got my Sony PJ in December, I ordered a mount from a place in Canada - sure looked great on the web. When I hung the projector it was very wobbly. I ended up modding my old NEC mount and re-using it.

It was ebay item 200315704484. It is for a BenQ W5000 projector. I was checking the sellers feedback and the people that bought projector mounts seem happy with them. It's a little strange that the seller says the other people are selling ones made out of a garage and the ones that I find from other sellers cost $150.00. I did not find $14.00 ones.

**hjones4841** · **03-03-09, 06:16 PM**

thewire: Do you have any type of tactile transducers? I am ordering Berkline recliners and really cannot justify the cost of Buttkickers. Not sure my back can take much vibration, but wanted to try something. So, I ordered the less expensive Aura Pros from Parts Express. I read that they have a resonance of 40Hz that needs to be tamed - guess that is what I can use the other BFD channel for.

**bpape** · **03-03-09, 07:08 PM**

Go old-school. If you want to be rocked, buy enough sub to do the job. Butt-kickers are a cheat. If you want bass get the right sub(s).

Bryan

**thewire** · **03-03-09, 07:49 PM**

I don't think that I would mind some butt-kickers but it's very low on my priority of things to get. I'm much more interested in getting some newer surrounds that I could mount on the wall for example. As far as low sounding subwoofage goes I am yelled at and ridiculed for any bass that is felt in the HT more than a rumble.

They yell "that is ridiculous your gonna blow your speakers!" or "loud enough?!" or even "whooooaahh" and meanwhile I'm just trying to enjoy the movie.

If I didn't watch 90% of the content with my folks when they are visiting (they are in late 50's) then I would have large and powerful subs

...with low distortion

and my room would look very different.

There would most importantly be less seats to worry about thus giving me alot more room to work with. Beggers canno't be choosers however. My hopes are that I will have a place of my own but I don't expect that the room will be as large as this one. I'm amazed that I am at least allowed to watch movies at reference level, until the seats start to move.

**hjones4841** · **03-03-09, 07:58 PM**

Quote:

bpape wrote:

Go old-school.

I agree completely, but I have the amp and crossover already, so the price of admission is at the "toy" level. When I tire of them, there is always the kid down the street

BTW, the chairs are coming from RSH - glad to support a forum supporter.

**hjones4841** · **03-03-09, 08:01 PM**

Quote:

thewire wrote:

(they are in late 50's)

Hey, watch it, Bub

Us old folks like our subs, too

Watch the episode of Home Improvement called "The Look" sometime. That is what I get from wifey when she walks into the HT - that turn that thing down look

**thewire** · **03-03-09, 08:24 PM**

Quote:

hjones4841 wrote:

Hey, watch it, Bub

Us old folks like our subs, too

Watch the episode of Home Improvement called "The Look" sometime. That is what I get from wifey when she walks into the HT - that turn that thing down look

They already enjoyed subs, perhaps too much. They did alot of clubbing and used to dance right in front of the stacks of 18"s.

Not that they do not enjoy the subwoofers, just perhaps maybe a little critical of bass the way it is nowadays. They thought UB571, The Matrix Trilogy, and such movies were fine but when you get into some like War of the Worlds, Master and Commander, The Hulk, for example it is

. The comment I got from that last demo of the start of Star Wars EP3 was "it's got kick".

Something I learned was that to save valuable headroom and decrease the load on the driver was to limit frequencies for which were not needed. The THX subs are suppossed to have a 12dB Octave roll-off at 20Hz. That is not bad in my opinion and with no limiter on them I think I could probobly shoot a golf ball across our cove with one.

I don't think that people realize just how much a driver will not move with a limiter on.

I was a fan of that show. I also read Tim Alens book.

**thewire** · **03-14-09, 03:30 AM**

I am in the proccess of getting the new projector installed and I have a question. The track lighting is being taken out and could be relocated somewhere because it can't be located right next to the pj. I was thinking of installing it near the rear row or placing it on the back wall further away. I could also attach some power cords to them and wire an outlet, that way I could remove them from the room if I wanted like if I was not working in the room on something.

As it is they are more like work lights, less like lighting might be in a mulit-purpose room. I will see if they can stay where they are first, but I thought I would ask.

**thewire** · **03-14-09, 04:52 AM**

I forgot I already asked that.... Sorry, I will just remove the lighting out of the tracks when I am not using it.

**thewire** · **03-16-09, 08:42 AM**

Here is a photo of the progress on the front wall. I may be ordering some more tiles this week and I did not have enough fabric, so I will probobly order some of that also soon. This is a screen shot from "The Terminal" (2004) on DVD.

**hjones4841** · **03-16-09, 01:06 PM**

I see that you have your new projector installed. Happy with it?

For your ceiling, I am having good luck with the R30 if there is a way to add it to your room. I am now getting reduction in ringing in the 30-40 Hz range. R30's relative lack of absorption in bass is being made up in square footage.

**thewire** · **03-16-09, 02:30 PM**

Quote:

hjones4841 wrote:

I see that you have your new projector installed. Happy with it?

For your ceiling, I am having good luck with the R30 if there is a way to add it to your room. I am now getting reduction in ringing in the 30-40 Hz range. R30's relative lack of absorption in bass is being made up in square footage.

So far so good with the projector. It came with 1 hour on the bulb. One of the downsides with DLP besides needing a well light controlled enviornment is that the bulbs need to broken in 100-200 hours. Many custom installers will actually run the projectors in the show room before installing them for customers. After my calibration, I have contrast down to 41, and brightness at 49 with 0 manual iris for the photo I took. I will do some further calibration after the bulb is broken in with DVE, then decide if I am trully keeping it. I really don't think I could deal with an LCD, LCOS, or other technology, and so far the RBE is pretty minimal, but it does seem to an issue with some material. Only time will tell. The contrast is now better than my CRT was, with the warn out 6" tubes that it had. The blacks now appear to be darker without the hallows and horizontal white lines across the screen that I had. The resolution in my photos still looks about the same, but my new projector is also sharper since I never had the older projector proffessionaly calibrated.

Screen shots don't really do justice much but you can observe the difference of my older projector versus the new one (how it is so far) here with a still from "Transformers" on HD-DVD.

NEC 6PG+ (1080i)

BenQ W5000 (1080P XA2 in auto for both Hz rate and pull down)

Here is another from "The Terminal" I took recently. I'm using the Reon upscalling in the XA2 because my RGBHV cable does not reach the projector right now.

The store was out of R30 last weekend but I hope to get some more this weekend.

**hjones4841** · **03-16-09, 06:21 PM**

As you know, RBE is more visible to some folks than others. My previous projector was a DLP -- NEC HT-1100. My son and I could see rainbows when I first got it; my wife never did. Later on I did not notice them myself at all unless I forced a rapid eye scan from side to side. I now have a Sony VPL-HW10 with their variation of LCD - very pleased with it.

**thewire** · **03-16-09, 06:56 PM**

Quote:

hjones4841 wrote:

As you know, RBE is more visible to some folks than others. My previous projector was a DLP -- NEC HT-1100. My son and I could see rainbows when I first got it; my wife never did. Later on I did not notice them myself at all unless I forced a rapid eye scan from side to side. I now have a Sony VPL-HW10 with their variation of LCD - very pleased with it.

I would love to have a VPL-HW10, although if it does have the .1 pixel adjustments that I am reading about that is way overkill. Your up in the high-end projector class where they are comparably as close to a DLP or the king of projection a CRT. An advantage of the new projectors like the VPL-HW10 is not a huge upgrade difference from say the VP-60, but I did hear they offer better compatabilty, and are more reliable.

**thewire** · **03-17-09, 09:07 PM**

I have had the projector up and running for quite awhile these past few days. I began to become impressed with the image after 30 hours so I decided to do a calibration with DVE setting the color levels and the gamma to the appropriate settings. Now approaching 40 hours I have to say that has to be plenty of time for me to be able to say.... how great the theater sounds! I'm very satisfied with the way the theater is sounding so far thanks to GIK acoustics (other treatments) and REW!

I did some basic calibration of the levels using an optimizer and it sounds quite fair compared to other calibrations I have done in the past. Even the THX Amazing Life trailor sounds clear and undistorted. I highly recommend anyone that is thinking about the Pillar Traps get them not for just their great looks, but because they are really excellent performers. Back to more movies.

**bpape** · **03-17-09, 10:02 PM**

Thanks for the kind words. You deserve a lot of the credit as you've spent a lot of time experimenting and getting things just right.

Glad you're enjoying it.

Bryan

**hjones4841** · **03-18-09, 07:48 AM**

Quote:

thewire wrote:

how great the theater sounds!

Glad that you are pleased with the results of your work. Nothing like having a project go well (to counter all the times they don't

).

I plan to finish my ceiling treatment this weekend - the rest of the burlap came in so all I need now is some time.

By far, the most audible improvement came from putting the Monster traps in. The benefits from the ceiling traps are certainly showing up on the waterfalls but they are not as audible as what I noticed when the first 5 traps were put in the room. I suppose that means that the most audible ringing was suppressed early in the treatment process and what I am getting is now icing on the cake.

I am having thoughts about adding another sub sometime, but no definate plans right now. A DIY IB or LLT would be fun, but also physically challenging for me. I will either watch for a good used 18" Velodyne (no way on the $5k new Velo prices now) similar to the one I have now or maybe try a Hsu or SVS later in the year.

**hjones4841** · **03-24-09, 05:57 AM**

Quote:

thewire wrote:

The store was out of R30 last weekend but I hope to get some more this weekend.

Did you start working on the added treatments? Are you putting them on the ceiling?

**thewire** · **03-28-09, 09:42 PM**

Quote:

hjones4841 wrote:

Did you start working on the added treatments? Are you putting them on the ceiling?

Not yet but they are ordered. When I ordered the back panels for them I have to order a case of what I think was 30 of them. I thought well, I have to have those so I went and got those also. I ordered yet another pair of GIK 244's also which will arrive soon. I have the fabric here already for that to be installed also.

**thewire** · **04-08-09, 04:00 PM**

I installed the new 244's on the back wall and plan to equalize the subwoofer soon, but I ordered the wrong color tile which by mistake was the pic used for my last order, so I will have to wait until I have returned the wrong ones for new ones. It would not make a decent photo until I could get the ceiling up next to the back wall finished but I will try and get some photos of the installation eventually.

**thewire** · **04-21-09, 01:23 PM**

They have corrected my order for the ceiling tiles near a week ago but they still have not shipped.

There is a roll of insulation I have had for what seems like forever sitting out waiting to be put in and I will pick up some more.

On another note I have ordered a Panasonic LX3K camera with a 6 hour battery and 2G memory card that they said would arrive in about a week but that is being shipped to another location so it could take longer to receive. I should be able to get some much better photos then.

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