Rookie (1st post) Speaker questions

**RKlowetter** · **05-07-08, 08:11 AM**

If you had a 140 watt per channel 7.1 AV receiver, could you use four 150 watt centers (2 5 1/2's-1 2 1/2) in place of four surrounds?
I'm in the process of completing a rather large dedicated HT and am getting close to the equipment stage and I will have a lot of questions that I will need some expert help with. I've been a frequent visitor to the Shack and have appreciated the content and attitude displayed by all involved.
Thanks to all.

**Sonnie** · **05-07-08, 09:42 AM**

Hello Rex and welcome to the Shack!

Sure, you can use centers for surrounds. The power really won't be an issue. However, I would probably mount the centers horizontally and not vertically.

I use a pair of Martin Logan Fresco's mounted horizontally for my surrounds. These are speakers which ML recommends for center and surrounds. They actually show them in a configuration mounted horizontally and vertically, but I am of the opinion that they will produce better horizontal dispersion for surround mounted horizontally and would be too direct if mounted vertically.

**nova** · **05-07-08, 09:43 AM**

Hi Rex, Welcome to the Shack.
Really don't need to pay much attention to wattage ratings on receivers or speakers. For the most part those numbers are,... fudged for marketing purposes. Just use a good quality receiver and you should be fine.

What four speakers are you planning on using?
Generally speaking you could use any speaker you wanted to for the surrounds. I would definitely orient them (MTM speakers) vertically, but you may want to experiment with placement and orientation to find what sounds best.

**drdoan** · **05-07-08, 10:33 AM**

Hi Rex, welcome to the Shack. Keep us updated. Have fun, Dennis

**MatrixDweller** · **05-07-08, 01:25 PM**

If you don't have the center channels already and aren't getting an amazing deal on them I would pass on them in favor of good bookshelf speakers instead. A center channel is usually a little more expensive than its bookshelf counterpart. Take what you would spend on the center and get a better bookshelf speaker. In a lot of cases a good bookshelf will have a bit deeper bass as centers are normally optimized for smooth dialog.

That's not to say that a good center channel won't be good in surround duty, it's just that a bookshelf, or even a floor stander, will make a better one. There has also been talk (here at the shack) on how the MTM style center is not a very good design and that the midrange woofers can interfere with the tweeter.

As for wattage, the 150W rating is what the speaker can handle for a sustained period of time. It could probably handle peaks of 400-500W for very short periods. What you want to avoid is a very low powered or poor quality amp that might start clipping. That could damage the speakers.

**RKlowetter** · **05-08-08, 07:18 AM**

Thanks for the quick response all! I"m thinking Yamaha 3800 AV receiver and am considering Pioneer 120 watt bookshelf for surrounds...but have an offer on the table for some Jensen 150 watt centers at a very economical (or should I say cheap?) price. Jensen makes some pretty good guitar amp speakers so I'm intrigued. My theater is roughly 25x28 and I'm thinking a JVC HD1 projector and a 135" screen. I know I should be thinking a big amp and power, but I'm hard of hearing already! I've had a Yamaha 5550 paired with a Mitsu 65" for the last 3 years and I'm happy with the sound and simplicity. Thanks for all input...I appreciate you!

**nova** · **05-08-08, 10:00 AM**

Hmm,... I think I'd steer you in a different direction. That 3800 is a lot of receiver for the speakers you are contemplating. If you like the Yamaha, I'd say look at the 663, unless the 3800 has some feature you need. You'll likely be much happier with your HT if you spend a little more on speakers and less on the receiver.

**MatrixDweller** · **05-08-08, 11:09 AM**

Or just one step down to the RX-V1800 and pump the $ diff into speakers.

Just remember RKlowetter, you could have a good set of speakers for over 10 years whereas receivers will be outdated at least twice in that same time frame.

If you wanted the 3800 for the network capability, you can get a media streamer or PS3/XBox for less than the price difference between the 3800 and 1800.

Edit: If you're looking for a good deal check out Axiom Audio. They have gotten pretty good reviews and are very affordable. SVS has some pretty affordable speakers also.

**RKlowetter** · **05-08-08, 01:31 PM**

Posting here has already started to pay off!! You guys are great! Matrix, thanks for the tip on Axiom. Good site and the wizard recomends a vp 150, m-60, qs8, and ep 500 at half the price of the Klipsch and B&W that I've been quoted.
The only reason I considered the 3800 over the 1800 was trying to keep from being obsolete in 5 years! Maybe I should list what I'm looking for and let you experts point me in the right direction. 1080p projector sourced by 1.3 hdmi from receiver fed by Sony Blu-Ray and Dish HD.
The theater will be used for watching DVD's and sports (Dallas Cowboys and San Antonio Spurs)
A BIG part of the WAF stems from her being an avid fan of both teams....ain't I lucky?
The RXV-1800 is 130 watts per channel so should do ok. Mark, is the 663 comparable to the 1800? Thanks again gang!

**MatrixDweller** · **05-08-08, 03:50 PM**

You'll pay a premium at a local dealer. I think their margins are near 50% on speakers. What Klipsch models were you looking at?

I'm partial to Klipsch as I have a set. I bought mine at cost...otherwise I'd have gone Axiom.

Re: 3800 not being obsolete in 5 years. The 1800 just lacks the networking and USB support and the 3800 has a nicer GUI. They will both be semi-obsolete in 5 years. In 5 years expect 1440p or 2880p upconversion, a newer HDMI revision and possibly new connections all together, and built in hard drives or other form of storage.

I have a Denon 4306 and the networking ability is neat but I have pretty much the same ability with my PS3.

**nova** · **05-08-08, 05:42 PM**

Well, it compares pretty well, considering the price, and it is a pretty new receiver. Has lots of bells and whistles

It is a little low on power compared to the others but, depending on what speakers you get it really is not that big a difference, especially if you go with an efficient speaker from the likes of Klipsch.
For a comparison of the three Yamaha's click here.
I would recommend you pick the speakers you like first, then get a receiver or separates that can handle them.

**RKlowetter** · **05-09-08, 07:32 AM**

Proposed Klipsch RF63, RS62, RC64, and RT12. Overpriced me on the 63's by $300 a speaker and hit the other one's dead on based on suggested retail from Klipsch. Proposed an Integra DTR7.8 AV receiver for about the same price as the Yamaha RXV-1800.
I received 4 different proposals from this company. The first 2 were blind bids...no look, no info! I had to ask them to send out a tech (NOT a salesman) to look at my room and listen to what I felt was needed. My confidence level with this company is not real high, but they may be the only game in town!
Zip, how did you get Klipsch at cost?? You got a brother-in-law in shipping?? You lucky rascal!
Thanks again for your help.

**MatrixDweller** · **05-09-08, 09:11 AM**

My sister-in-law's boyfriend worked for a retailer and he could buy stuff from the store at cost. He doesn't work there anymore so future purchases will have to be researched a little harder to find the best price.

The RF63 setup you mentioned is pretty sweet. I listened to the RF63's and they are very detailed and revealing. Klipsch subs are not phenomenal for what you pay though. If you were to go with Klipsch, dump the sub and pick up an SVS PB13 Ultra or a PB12-Plus/2 (pretty nice in paino black). They cost less and best the RT12 hands down.

You might have to travel into a bigger city to find a Klipsch dealer that has stock you can try out in store. You could use the find-a-dealer link on their website. There are also a few online stores that carry Klipsch. The find-a-dealer page can help you find online stores too. I'm sure you could find a better price somewhere else. Like I mentioned before, there is quite a bit of markup on speakers. Not nearly as much as cables and speaker wire, but on a $2000 pair of speaker 30-50% is not unheard of.

I think www.vanns.com has the RF63 for $1800 a pair. I think the RT12d is about $2000 online.

**RKlowetter** · **05-13-08, 06:15 AM**

Good Morning! Please educate me concerning OHMS for speaker set up. 4-6-8?? Why the differences? Also, what is the best and/or easiest way to hook up 2 subs. Thanks for your help.

**mdrake** · **05-13-08, 02:12 PM**

Loudspeaker Design Cookbook would be a great read. It would give you a pretty good understanding of the basics and should help in your speaker quest.

Matt

**salvasol** · **05-13-08, 02:28 PM**

Quote:

RKlowetter wrote:

... Also, what is the best and/or easiest way to hook up 2 subs. Thanks for your help.

If your receiver has only one Sub pre-out ... just use a "Y" cable to send signal to both subs

**jakewash** · **05-16-08, 02:41 PM**

You could also daisy chain the subs if they are close to each other.

I could aslo recommend the Axioms, I have the M80s, Vp150 amd QS8s, check their website for the listening things forum and they have an audition list there. I know there are some owners in Texas, exactly where I can't remember.

**JRace** · **05-24-08, 03:39 PM**

OHMS refer to the load presented to th amp. A bsic ananogy is to compare it to a water pipe. THe lower the OHM the greater the size of the pipe, and therefore there wil be agreater amount of water flowing through that pipe. And it will be harder for the upstream componet to provide the necessary flow.

If you have 4ohm speakers you need an amp capable of driving four ohm speakers.
So, unless the speakers you are buying are 4ohms it doesn't really matter as all Home Theater amps (or receivers) can drive 8ohm loads. Not all can drive 4ohm loads though.

**RKlowetter** · **06-08-08, 09:22 AM**

I could have kept on procrastinating...but the equipment and installation comes on Wednesday! I listened to your advice and spent over 2 hours pursuing THE package and price that we could live with. Initial equipment list for our HT
JVC DLAHD1 projector
ELITE R135WH HD fixed screen
Yamaha RXV1800 A/V receiver
BH200 LG dual blu-ray/HDDVD 1080P
KLIPSCH 7.2 2 RF62, 1 RC64, 4 RS52, 2 RPW 10 (Zip, you were right about the mark-up. This is where I was able to negotiate the most savings.)
Panamax power protection and a a Control 4 Controller to complete the system.
Add in another 30% for all cables, programming, and installation and we came in at $3.30 over our original equipment budget.
Thanks for all the input gang. Guess I'll have to go visit the HT seating forum next so we don't have to sit on folding chairs until XMAS!

**Owen Bartley** · **06-10-08, 12:11 PM**

Sounds like you have the makings of a great setup, and you got a good deal on it all too, congrats! You should be very happy with what you've chosen, and I wouldn't worry about anything becoming obsolete unless you're one of those guys who has to be on the bleeding edge all the time. As much as I'd love to upgrade my gear every few years, it just ain't cheap! I'm still happy with my 6 or 7 year old Denon 2802 receiver, and will be for a few more years.

**nova** · **06-11-08, 09:21 PM**

Congrats,... looks like a well thought out system that should keep you happy for many years,.....that is, until the upgrade bug hits.

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