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Long term listening test / Floorstanding speakers

21K views 87 replies 19 participants last post by  Peter Loeser 
#1 · (Edited)
Greetings - I have decided it's time to have fun in the world of testing out products, and this time, it's going to be in floorstanding speakers.

As of now, we have a pair of Klipsch LaScalas and a pair of Martin Logan Electromotion ESL Hybrid Electrostats, with a pair of Axiom M100's and a pair of M50's on order.

The Klipsch retail for $7000 per pair, and are quite the revealing loudspeaker. Those who have not heard a pair of Klipschorns or LaScalas are missing out on something special.

Sam Tellig, famed audio critic, tested the LaScalas here: Sam likes him some LaScalas

The Martin Logans can be found here: Martin Logan Electromotion ESL

The Axioms will be delivered at a later date, and we will start discussion at that point.

The first speaker "up" will be my spending several weeks listening to the Martin Logans in a simple two channel set up.

The front end is a Denon Universal player with a Marantz 7008 receiver. All processing is turned off. No subwoofer is being used. It's just a straight, two channel set up.

The reason I finally selected the Marantz is it delivers 148 WPC into 8 ohms and 216 WPC into 4 ohms, as measured by Sound and Vision here: Bench Test on Marantz 7008.

In addition, the Marantz has preouts on all channels, and for later tests has full Audyssey XT-32 processing with sub eq which can independently eq two subwoofers.

It also allows one to bypass Audyssey on the mains, should one wish to have a sub in one's system, properly eq'ed, but without processing in the Left/Right speakers.

All speakers being tested are being purchased by me, no manufacturers "giving" free product for evaluation. I have contacted several manufacturers, and am waiting on responses for other speakers to be added over the next few months.

I will do the best I can to convey to relative "sound qualities" of each loudspeaker. More later, as some serious listening will start this week.

Speakers by Brand and Model, including post numbers where one can find them:

1. Martin Logan Electromotion ESL Hybrid's can be found in posts #4, 5 and 6
2. Axiom M50 can be found in posts #39, 40 and 41
3. Axiom M100 can be found in posts #43, 44 and 45
4. Legacy Audio Signature SE can be found in posts 46, 47 and 48

These notes will take place over the next 3 to 4 months, and the reason for the dedicated three pages per speaker is to allow an easy place for the summary notes on each speaker. There will also be the more frequent updates throughout the thread. Hopefully, this will work for both the occasional reader and the more avid forum members.
 
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#33 ·
Thanks Craig.

Owning ML ESL for more then a year and still exploring. Paired it with SVS SB-1000 Sub to eliminate hard working by ML ESL bus. Found that ESL are ideal for any vocal performance. Without equalizer ML ESL sounded a bit shy at HF end. Cheers from Australia.
 
#34 ·
AU - Good point on a subwoofer with the ML's ... We have a few around the house, and as this process unfolds, adding a subwoofer into the mix with some speakers will make sense. The ML's do a lot of things right, for sure - my only issue now is there are no other high end speakers in the room against which to compare them, but that will be remedied soon. "The Wall" has so many subtle cues - and the ML's did a solid job picking those up. This is one area which will get a lot of attention between all the speakers.

I have not noticed in lack of highs in our system with the ML's - but it's possible our rooms are the difference there.

Adding a sub will be easy with the Marantz - I would guess a crossover at 60 Hz would free the ML's from deep bass duties, and one can still have a relatively inexpensive 2 channel set up.
 
#35 ·
AU - Good point on a subwoofer with the ML's ... We have a few around the house, and as this process unfolds, adding a subwoofer into the mix with some speakers will make sense. The ML's do a lot of things right, for sure - my only issue now is there are no other high end speakers in the room against which to compare them, but that will be remedied soon. "The Wall" has so many subtle cues - and the ML's did a solid job picking those up. This is one area which will get a lot of attention between all the speakers.
Agreed, The Wall is a test of about anything one can find in audio. In The Flesh has some of the greatest dynamics I have ever heard. My room is very quiet and I can easily move from low to mid 50's into the mid 90 db range by the end of the cut. That is very special. Spacial cues are in abundance as is the clarity of the recording. Well chosen.
 
#36 ·
Savjac - Our listening room is also quiet like that, well, at least when no one else is home making noise ... :paddle:

I got the chance to listen to The Wall from start to finish last night, and Steely Dan's 2 Against Nature the previous night, and both are stellar discs for speaker testing. Sunday is supposed to be 50 and rainy, a good day to try out the Acoustic Guitar disc - if it lives to its billing, I will get the info regarding where to purchase it.

The BIG news - The M100's and M50's shipped on Friday, and the Legacy Signature SE's ship Monday. By next weekend, we should have 5 really good tower speakers in the house.

I don't know how many people know this, but Bryston and Axiom have been collaborating on speakers for about 4 years now - maybe longer with the research phase. There was a new tweeter developed, new crossovers ... upgraded woofers ... etc ...

A lot of the Axiom speakers have a sonic "twin" at Bryston. The Bryston line up has been getting rave reviews by Absolute Sound, Stereophile, Soundstage ... etc ...

It will be interesting to "hear" how the Axiom products can stack up to the ML's, Legacy and LaScalas, and what, if any, effect this collaboration with Bryston has had with their speakers.

And maybe, after a few months with these speakers, AJ would like to have some of his speakers added to the mix.
 
#37 ·
Thanks Craig, I am looking forward to your thoughts on other speakers as most of us cannot change out so easily, we depend on you to help us out.
Now I have to go listen to the Steely Dan disc. :)
 
#39 · (Edited)
Axiom M50 Notes:

The M50's arrived two days ago (along with the M100's, but as promised, the M50's are first up). They have about 20 hours on them, and tonight is the first round with Diana Krall. The M50's are a pleasant surprise. I was expecting a let down after 6 weeks of listening to the Martin Logans, and they are anything but a let down.

Krall's voice is as seductive as ever, the stand up bass clear, guitar work sounds wonderful, and even the light cymbal work by the drummer is coming through naturally. Where most speakers in the $1000 range are lacking is dynamics, but the M50's will easily play louder, without strain, that I will ever want to listen. On the flip side, they also get "quiet" in the way a much more expensive speaker would. I can't say the M50's are "better" than the Martin Logans - but they are making for a similar experience on the Krall disc.

Neither the Martin Logans nor the M50's deliver subwoofer bass, but both do 40 Hz well, and both a comparably tight and musical. It is only the first night of serious listening, but so far, these are some very fine speakers.

Pink Floyd's "The Wall": The M50's continue to play above their size and price class on The Wall. Yes, they lack hitting the deepest bass notes, but they do still provide a nice floor with their 40 Hz extension. More importantly, they get so many things right with this disc. The subtle voices in the background come through as more easily heard than with other small towers we have had here in the $700-$2000 range. The infamous helicopter gives a pretty big chunk of that "it's landing here" feeling.

When the "girlfriend" is touring the apartment, one gets the feeling that she is going to another room when she offers the bath, and then back into the room with you when she asks "are you feeling all right". This listening style test is now about 2 weeks old (since the arrival of all the speakers), with a final date being the US Thanksgiving weekend. There is a long ways to go, but so far, these M50's are a real find.
 
#42 ·
Guys - Some updates:

1. The Axiom M50's have had sufficient burn in, with the first post about them being in post #39. The opening post of this thread has been updated to reflect the location for the Axiom M50's notes.

2. The Legacy Signature SE's arrived yesterday, and will be in the basement theater this weekend, when I can get some help moving them.

3. Legacy also sent their "Sampler II" CD, which is loaded with great tracks. The opening track is from Amber Rubarth, called "Novocaine". It's an excellent recording with a lot of audio cues in it, plus her distinctive voice. This disc has 15 music tracks, two pink noise tracks (one out of phase), and 5 other "test tone" style tracks and is already proving to be a reference level disc.

Many thanks to Legacy for sending this, even if it is a standard they do when one purchases products.

I will try to get pics of the 4 main speakers over the weekend. The M50's will be getting a lot of attention this weekend, then the M100's will start their burn in Sunday at noon.

After the M100's get a few days, the same treatment will apply to the Legacy speakers ... then look for some more comparative notes between them.
 
#43 · (Edited)
Axiom M100 notes:

Legacy Audio Test Disc:

The first cut on this disc is from a singer with whom I was previously unaware. Her name is Amanda Rubarth, and the song is called Novocaine. It is a remarkable disc of her, her guitar, some violin, and subtle effects of footfalls, percussion on the guitar ... it is a tremendous disc. Amanda's voice is haunting (and this song has me ordering a couple of her CD's). My daughter, who has been in the performing arts for several years, including two years of opera training, stopped by the listening room, and she was quite impressed by both the song, and how good the speakers are.

Her words: "Dad, you have had a lot of great sounding speakers, but with these, she sounds like she is here".

The rest of the disc is also a treasure of deep bass funk, jazz and classical music, and the M100's made me want to listen to this disc several times, which I have. BUT ... keeping in mind this is a long term test, it was time for more music.

Pink Floyd's The Wall

As good as the Martin Logan ESL Hybrids and the Axiom M50's were on "The Wall", the M100's take this disc to a new level. The most remarkable aspect of the performance on The Wall was how well the M100's bring out all the subtle sonic cues from the background. I have heard this disc over a thousand times, and have never tired of it. There were voices in the background that I had never heard before (a side note on this ... the Legacy Signature SE's are in the bullpen, and I am looking forward to hearing what they do with The Wall).

Bass is close to subwoofer ... and I mean LARGE subwoofer .. .deep. A subwoofer will add to the M100's, but as a full range speaker, they dig out the low stuff, with lots of slam. The Helicopter scene is "scary putting a smile on your face" good. The macrodynamic ability of the M100's is well beyond what one would expect, especially in a $2660 per pair speaker that can also delineate the subtle notes so well.
 
#46 · (Edited)
Legacy Signature SE notes:

Legacy Audio Test Disc

After 60 hours of burn in, the first song for testing was the same as it was with the Axiom M100's. After an initial listen with Legacy's, I did some back and forth between the Legacy speakers and the M100's for come comparisons.

Amanda Rubarth's voice was very clear, and her angst in singing Novocaine was quite clear. The guitar, violin and footfall effects were palpable, and the Signatures make for quite the musical speaker. Soundstage was a bit wider than with the M100's but not quite as deep. The percussive aspects of the Legacy's was very tight, and sounded natural. This is a great first listen for any speaker, and the Signature SE's made me want to get into more CD's ...

Pink Floyd's The Wall

One of the first things one will notice on "The Wall" with the Signature SE's is how well they dig out all those subtle sonics of the disc. As with the M100's there were scores of times in which I found myself thinking "that's something I usually don't hear". The helicopter scene was delivered in a BIG way that most speakers just cannot do. On "Waiting for the Worms", vocals are lush, and the song brings out all the emotion the band intended. On "One of my turns", the Legacy's matched the M100's ability to mover her back and forth, left and right, as she is speaking.

Bass is very good - deep and very tight. These are rated to 22 Hz, -3 dB, and they no doubt live up to this. The pair have quad 10 inch, long throw drivers in what would be a HUGE cabinet for sealed subs, and they get very close to subwoofer bass. Everything I have heard so far with the Legacy's is making these next 4 months to look like a lot of fun.
 
#49 ·
Hi all - it's time for an informal update. The first post in the thread has been updated to show the three pages set aside for each speaker pair, as a summary is done.

All four speakers have now arrived - plus the original Klipsch LaScala II's. We now have in ascending order by price:

1. Axiom M50's @ $998 per pair direct from Axiom
2. Martin Logan Electromotion ESL Hybrids @ $2498 per pair from Authorized Martin Logan Dealers. They are also pretty easy to find on line if you don't have a local dealer - both One Call and Audio Advisor carry the Martin Logan line.
3. Axiom M100's @ $2660 per pair direct from Axiom.
4. Legacy Audio Signature SE's @ $6995 per pair, with the option of ordering directly from Legacy or from select dealers across the USA and Canada.
5. Klipsch LaScala II's @ $7000 per pair available both factory direct or from Select dealers across the USA and Canada. One Call is also an authorized Klipsch dealer.

Our Martin Logans came from Audio Advisor, while the LaScala II's came from One Call. Thanks to both companies for superb service.

The Axiom M100's have spent the last 50 hours burning in, and we did some listening today. My daughter is studying music theater at the university level, with 2 years of opera training. She stopped by today and spent about an hour listening to various vocals and other tracks of unamplified music.

She was very impressed with the Axioms - for someone with her training to comment that the "performers sound like they are here singing" is quite the compliment for a speaker. The M100's are in that "high end" speaker arena in which one hears detail one usually misses with other speakers.

I am definitely looking forward to spending time with them - especially with a weather forecast of rain the next 2 nights.

The Legacy Signatures are standing by - and looking fantastic in the high gloss black pearl finish.
 
#51 ·
Jbrax - the notes will be updated as the listening tests proceed. Right now, the Martin Logans have had about 20 nights of listening ... the Axiom M50's 2 nights, and we are just getting started on the M100's.

We are 2 months into a 6 month ... or longer ... process. Instead of listening for a few months and posting everything at once, we decided to do this "live".
 
#52 ·
Jbrax - the notes will be updated as the listening tests proceed. Right now, the Martin Logans have had about 20 nights of listening ... the Axiom M50's 2 nights, and we are just getting started on the M100's. We are 2 months into a 6 month ... or longer ... process. Instead of listening for a few months and posting everything at once, we decided to do this "live".
Ah, I see. Looking forward to following your thread and thanks for doing it. Do you plan on keeping any of the speakers.
 
#53 ·
Jeff - I am definitely keeping the Klipsch LaScalas, the Axiom M50's, the Axiom M100's and will probably keep the Legacy Signature SE's. I say probably because they have not been hooked up yet.

The M50's are a $1000 small tower that plays a lot bigger than its size and price would indicate.

The LaScalas are perfect for our upstairs theater.

The M100's are possibly even more detailed and nuanced than the LaScalas, and are a true high end speakers - they will end up in our family room with the VP-180 center channel and the M50's

The Legacy Signature SE's, assuming they perform well, will be in our basement high end two channel system.

And the Martin Logans? My son has his eyes on those.

This fall, I am also planning on a subwoofer version of this test, with an Axiom EP800 already here, and would love to compare them to a pair of SVS SB-13 Ultras in a good listening environment.

Our three rooms are as follows ...

Basement high end room ... 44 x 14 feet. Very quiet room, great for two channel. Legacy speakers are planned here.

Upstairs Theater room ... 25 x 24 feet. Started life as a two car garage, now is a second "family room" - a light controlled theater room. This is the LaScala room, and where a subwoofer test would be done.

Family room ... 27 x 24 feet. The hardest room to "drive". Lots of glass, open areas to other rooms ... etc ... the M100's will live here.

None of the speakers are manufacturer's loan. All were paid for as all of us "normal customer" types have to do.
 
#56 ·
Hey Craig,

So happy to have (and read) you doing a new long term speaker, and potential subwoofer, review. It's easy to tell that you are having fun doing this and the format is a nice change of pace from the usual short term, typically stuffy online review. Thanks for taking the time, and the expense, to do this and I'm looking forward to reading the rest of your listening notes as they get posted. I haven't had a chance to hear any of these speakers yet myself so it'll be interesting reading for sure.
Years ago, when I lived in California, Legacy Audio had a multi-city tour going on of their complete speaker line at the time. I attended the Pasadena showing where they had pairs of all their speakers set up in an auditorium and attendants could ask to hear different models play. The various pairs were switched via some sort of switchbox so people could make on the fly comparisons. I remember coming away underwhelmed by the whole thing because nothing sounded great to me. But it always bugged me that none of the speakers were really set up, I believe, to show off their true potential. As such, I'm really curious to hear your take on the Legacys.

All the best....Carlo.
 
#57 ·
Jack - I would not torture you by letting you move into the man cave, but you will be welcome to visit. We will be having a GTG this fall.

Carlo - You are going to attend the GTG and get to hear them for yourself. The Legacy Signature SE's sure are one good looking loudspeaker!

And yes, this is fun. :sn:
 
#58 ·
The Axiom M50 and M100 notes have been updated. The M100's have completed the break in period, and the Legacy Signature SE's will be moved into the system for break in over the weekend.

Once this is done, the speakers will start the rotation over the next few months. As always, thank you for participating. :)
 
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