$3000 speaker budget

**jbold** · **09-30-08, 07:21 PM**

We are finishing a remodel and had a built-in entertainment unit built with a particular speaker in mind. I had sold my wife on Cambridge SW HD speakers. She is concerned with appearance and agreed to those. Apparently, CSW has discontinued that line of slim-line speaker. Back to square one.

The room is a living room 22' x 14' with an opening into the kitchen opposite the HDTV wall. I was planning on 5.1 in the living room (surround mounted on the oposite wall) with book shelf speakers in the kitchen facing the same direction as the surround toward the HDTV. Additionally, I need two outdoor speakers for the patio. I think I have decided on an Onyko 876 avr, an XBR6 52", and a PS3.

My dilemna is to find speakers that satisfy my wife's eye and my ear and budget. She prefers wall- mounted speakers and I like listening to music and watching movies. I may not have time to do a lot of listening before I buy but I tend to like a little brighter speaker to compensate for some aviation-related hearing loss.

I've been to the Aperion, SVS, Ascend, B W, and Paradigm sites.

I appreciate your help and expertise. Let me know and feel free to pro/con the other components.

**nova** · **09-30-08, 08:55 PM**

I'm not familiar with the Cambridge SW HD's so I'm not really sure what you are looking for. A couple others you can look into that have great sound and fine craftsmanship are:

Salk Sound
RBH Sound
Totem Acoustic
Monitor Audio

These speakers all look ten times better in person than on the net. There are also many others out there with a fine finish and superb sound.

**thxgoon** · **10-01-08, 01:30 AM**

You might also check out the Kef KHT 5005 though I'd see if you can purchase with out the sub and get something better with the extra money. SVS makes great stuff, you might look at the PB13Ultra for that budget.

Any chance you could build the speakers into the front of the room behind some acoustically transparent cloth?

**jbold** · **10-01-08, 10:23 AM**

I quess what I'm looking for are called "lifestyle" speakers..something designed to be low profile and flanked the HDTV. Do most manufacturers have a lifestyle line? Thanks for the info on Kef.

**tonyvdb** · **10-01-08, 02:30 PM**

Quote:

jbold wrote:

I quess what I'm looking for are called "lifestyle" speakers..something designed to be low profile and flanked the HDTV. Do most manufacturers have a lifestyle line? Thanks for the info on Kef.

Have a look at this post before going that route.

Have you looked at the B&W site They have lots of variety and sound fantastic. They tend to be a bit on the brighter side as you requested.

**salvasol** · **10-01-08, 02:32 PM**

Quote:

jbold wrote:

I quess what I'm looking for are called "lifestyle" speakers..something designed to be low profile and flanked the HDTV. Do most manufacturers have a lifestyle line? Thanks for the info on Kef.

I'm sure most lifestyle speakers will be small ... and that translates into a not to good frequency response

I also agree to get some bookshelf and try to hide them behind transparent cloth, columns, etc.

The other option is inwall/inceiling speakers ... but I don't if you can get something good with the 3k budget

**Toolatecrew** · **10-01-08, 02:35 PM**

I don't think lifestyle speakers are the same as buying cubes or HTIB.

Lfstyle speakers often means simply thin or wall montable. Check out Definative technology http://www.definitivetech.com/loudsp...os/mythos.html they have "lifstyle wall mounted speakers" that supposedly go down to 31HZ!!!

**tonyvdb** · **10-01-08, 02:40 PM**

Quote:

Toolatecrew wrote:

I don't think lifestyle speakers are the same as buying cubes or HTIB.

Lfstyle speakers often means simply thin or wall montable. Check out Definative technology http://www.definitivetech.com/loudsp...os/mythos.html they have "lifstyle wall mounted speakers" that supposedly go down to 31HZ!!!

Just looked them up and that is true going by the ratings but I would have to hear them to beleive that. again not the best solution if your looking for good sound.

**jbold** · **10-01-08, 02:52 PM**

I like the look of the B W FPM 5 & 6, VM6. Don't know anything about them including price. Anything similar at SVS?

**thxgoon** · **10-01-08, 03:54 PM**

From experience the low end on those Mythos is exaggerated quite a bit but they are great speakers.

**ralauben** · **10-01-08, 05:16 PM**

If you want Mythos speakers that go low for $3,000 check out the STS towers. They are not on wall speakers but they have a small footprint and a builtin sub. I just bought a pair and am amazed by the sound.

**conchyjoe7** · **10-03-08, 11:17 AM**

Hi: I have an excellent pair of speakers for sale, but they are not of the "lifestyle" persuasion; they just happen to sound extremely excellent. Here's a review to amuse you http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/466/ Now, to get on with what may do a superb job for you. The spealers I am going to recommend have no real limits to their dynamics (in other words, while they certainly don't need to be, they can be played louder than one can sanely imagine without ANY sign of distress or distortion. They are also of the "lifestyle" pursuasion in spades and look and more importantly SOUND fabulous. The speakers I am referring you to are Sunfire's new "Cinema Ribbons" paired with the matching Sunfire Rosa sub which also mounts on the wall. Here they are http://www.sunfire.com/CR.htm and here's some reading for you. Then go here for all of the options you have at your disposal http://www.sunfire.com/xtseries.htm They may be a little above your budget, but if quality is of concern, then by all means look here. These speakers are a brand new design by the legendary Bob Carver, and they are one heckuva lot of speaker for that kind of money.

Let me close by adding that if you became interested in my Aerial Acoustics 10Ts I have for sale; just contact me. Like I said before though; they are NOT "lifestyle" speakers, merely incredible sounding, but I assure you the Sunfire's IMHO are exactly what you are looking for in ALL ways except maybe a tad over budget...bear in mind though that you're buying something that ideally you want to have for years!
Cheers and good luck,
Konky.

**Kuro** · **10-04-08, 05:10 AM**

You could try axiom audio, they are internet direct and offer free 30-day in-home trial (w/ free shipping) so it can't hurt to try. They have speakers designed specifically for inwall which I think look terrific (the do real wood, good selection, plus stains - just select more on the finish options) I have not personally heard them but they have been recommended before and free trial can't be beat.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/wallspeakers.html

**Mac11700** · **10-04-08, 09:51 AM**

You should check out AV123 site and their ELT line. They are mountable and sound great.If you want to step up to a full tower then take a look at their Rocket line,awesome speakers for the money.

Mac

**looneybomber** · **10-07-08, 10:09 AM**

Quote:

conchyjoe7 wrote:

They are also of the "lifestyle" pursuasion in spades and look and more importantly SOUND fabulous. The speakers I am referring you to are Sunfire's new "Cinema Ribbons" paired with the matching Sunfire Rosa sub which also mounts on the wall. Here they are http://www.sunfire.com/CR.htm

Hmm Cinema "Ribbons"?

They're actually planars

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=275-085

That design looks pretty bad. Side firing 4's that are made to perform all the way to 95hz? They lack displacement to do so with authority and in return will distort very badly when forced to produce ample midbass. Crossing over to a midbass at 4-500hz would help though.

**conchyjoe7** · **10-07-08, 12:20 PM**

Perhaps you should review the reviews...the man has made a career (and a very fine one at that) out of dispensing with conventional theories...it would seem, based on the acceptance factor of those who have heard and reviewed these new speakers that he has once again defied conventional logic and delivered the goods. http://www.hometheatermag.com/compac...rs/507sunfire/. There's plenty of reviews..."Conclusion
I really enjoyed my time with these amazing little speakers. I was pleasantly surprised to find no matter where I placed the CRM-2s, they gave an open and wide soundstage. The sound pressure levels obtainable by them are just insane. They are smooth and accurate and, while they can handle 400 watts per channel, they sounded excellent being fed the 130 watts my Denon receiver output as well, being able to reach ear-splitting levels with ease even from a receiver. They can reproduce wide swings in dynamics and give a smooth midrange and highs not often found for their price. I have bought a lot of high-end audio gear and can truly say that none of it came packed as well as the Sunfire XT Cinema Ribbon speakers, which were packed like the fine gems they are. Their fit and finish is truly first-rate." That one taken from http://www.avrev.com/home-theater-lo...crm-2-crm-2c.h
I think perhaps you have based your conclusion on older accepted methods than the new breakthroughs when it comes to displacement. I too am "old school" and thought the same as you would happen when current was seriously applied here...The fact is; when done we were both very very wrong. Go hear and listen...some things do truly defy belief but are never the less factual...this is one of the few that does just exactly what it claims to!
Cheers,
Konky.

**looneybomber** · **10-07-08, 04:07 PM**

I'm sure they sound great for the average listener needing niche type speakers, and those long throw 4" drivers are no doubt impressive for what they are, but physics simply can't be cheated. X volume of air displaced at Yhz produces Zdb. Increase X or Y and Z goes up. Decrease X or Y and...

Dual 4's can only displace so much air, which is why I am using a 15". At lower SPL's I'm sure they're fine, but when pushing 115-120db's, there's no possible way. Remember, one man's workout is another man's warmup...I just require more output than you, that's all.

As for "high end"...

Quote:

As reviewed, this speaker system retails for $5,650 and delivers a nearly perfect amalgam of audiophile and home theater performance traits in a small size

5,650.00 and it uses ~$37 tweeters as shown above. They do look nice though! And they've inspired me to expand on my 5.1 computer system idea by means of imitation, which is the kindest form of flattery.

**tonyvdb** · **10-07-08, 05:01 PM**

Quote:

conchyjoe7 wrote:

I think perhaps you have based your conclusion on older accepted methods than the new breakthroughs when it comes to displacement. I too am "old school" and thought the same as you would happen when current was seriously applied here...The fact is; when done we were both very very wrong. Go hear and listen...some things do truly defy belief but are never the less factual...this is one of the few that does just exactly what it claims to!
Cheers,
Konky.

I have to agree, There have been some remarkable speakers out there that defy logic and simply sound and preform far better than what they look that they can do. Why do you think B&W moved away from there large 801 speaker design, because it can be accomplished in a smaller cabinet using multiple drivers.
I'm not saying that large speakers cant sound better than smaller ones but I have heard the opposite as well. I dont see why a set of 4" long throw drivers cant go as low as that. If the cabinet is designed properly it most certainly can.

**looneybomber** · **10-07-08, 07:34 PM**

Quote:

tonyvdb wrote:

I'm not saying that large speakers cant sound better than smaller ones but I have heard the opposite as well. I dont see why a set of 4" long throw drivers cant go as low as that. If the cabinet is designed properly it most certainly can.

Tony, I'm not saying 4" speakers always sound bad, I'm just saying the distortion they produce when cranked up does. And I never mentioned enclosure size, I spoke purely of the amount of air a driver can move. So going back to basic physics (X vol at Y hz = Z db), dual long throw 4" drivers can certainly play low, but the output will be dismal. They just won't move enough air. That's why HSU created the MBM-12 - small drivers just can't produce the midbass sufficient enough to keep up with today's powerful subs.

**conchyjoe7** · **10-08-08, 03:04 PM**

Quote:

Looneybomber wrote Remember, one man's workout is another man's warmup...I just require more output than you, that's all".

I get that, as I use twin 15" backed with 500watts rms each...it's unlikely you require more output than I Looney...I have a fair idea how good speakers sound and a working knowledge of basic physics as well...maybe this will give you an idea...both the new and the old. http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...ease-read.html It's been shown many times that a large number of smaller drivers can and do move more air and more quickly than larger ones...it's just hard to overcome the impedence problems without sounding bad; and that's been solved lately. YOU really need to go with an open mind and listen to those speakers. I'm no fan boy of his but credit need be given where it's due; and in this case Mr. Carver's due it!
Cheers,
Konky.

**thxgoon** · **10-08-08, 04:56 PM**

Quote:

conchyjoe7 wrote:

] It's been shown many times that a large number of smaller drivers can and do move more air and more quickly than larger ones...it's just hard to overcome the impedence problems without sounding bad; and that's been solved lately.

That's not necessarily true, but there is merit to both Loonybomber's and conchyjoe7's views. The fact is, cone area times displacement equals max output. But, max output is relative to the listener and their taste. Most people (in fact none I've ever met) ever listen at 115db at home (subwoofers excluded

).

For most listening, pair of 4's may be completely adequate for jbold's application. When you are dealing with space issues you have to compromise to find the best solution.

**looneybomber** · **10-09-08, 01:37 AM**

Quote:

conchyjoe7 wrote:

I get that, as I use twin 15" backed with 500watts rms each...it's unlikely you require more output than I Looney...I have a fair idea how good speakers sound and a working knowledge of basic physics as well...maybe this will give you an idea...both the new and the old. http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...ease-read.html It's been shown many times that a large number of smaller drivers can and do move more air and more quickly than larger ones...it's just hard to overcome the impedence problems without sounding bad; and that's been solved lately. YOU really need to go with an open mind and listen to those speakers. I'm no fan boy of his but credit need be given where it's due; and in this case Mr. Carver's due it!
Cheers,
Konky.

I will see if there are dealers near Topeka, but I'm guessing KC will be the closest place to hear the Sunfire's. I'm still very skeptical though knowing how much Vd (no that's not an STD) those little drivers have, and by the number's, should be on par with an average 10" or a good 8" in the midbass dept.. Though for the average listener a 2way bookshelf with a 1" dome and 6.5" mid works great, so those should be just right for the average listener. You and I, however, are not average

I would like to be able to hear your speakers sometime, but won't be traveling to that side of the country for a while. The one's I'm building are aimed to compete with speakers in the 10-20k catagory, but I won't bore everyone in this thread with details.

The moral of the story is those Sunfire XT's would work great in my parent's living room.

**Nuance** · **11-17-08, 02:35 PM**

I vote going with a bookshelf sized speaker. Check out the Ascend Sierra-1's, Salk HTS Series and the Salk SongSurround I's. For B&M I recommend Paradigm, Monitor Audio, B&W and Kef.

Happy hunting.

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