Need new speakers not sure on approach

**Dwight Angus** · **06-22-09, 04:56 PM**

Hello to all

I need your help

I have a dedicated home theater and want to replace speakers not sure about the approach. My existing in ceiling speakers need to be replaced either with inwall or floor speakers. I find during movie dialogue the voices have an echo effect ie sounds like talking in a tunnel due to proximity to dry wall ceiling placement. I expect that installing floor or inwall will solve this problem. Where I am unsure is the approach to this problem as follows:

I have a 9ft X 5ft Stuart screen (non AT) The space from carpet to edge of screen is 2 ft. Perhaps center speaker can go below screen angled up towards seats but L/F speakers will need to be placed on either side of the screen angled towards seats. Can the L and R speakers be placed on either side of screen if the screen is 9 ft in width or does this distort imaging etc?

Thanks for your input
Dwight

**Ted White** · **06-22-09, 05:00 PM**

Hi Dwight. Inwalls will increase the sound leaving the room. Other than that you'd better listen to what Bryan has to say about the acoustics

**tonyvdb** · **06-22-09, 05:06 PM**

There are very few of us who would recommend you go with in wall/ceiling speakers. The quality to price ratio is very high and placement is impossible to change once installed. Free standing speakers will give you a much better sound for the money spent. Do you have a budget in mind?

**Dwight Angus** · **06-22-09, 05:34 PM**

Hi Tony
Yeah going with inceilings was a big mistake but I was a complete noob and made some bad choices. No budget in mind yet but I suspect they will be mid priced. Can I position floor speakers on either side of a 9 ft screen angled towards seats or does create other issues?

cheers Dwight

**tonyvdb** · **06-22-09, 05:38 PM**

Quote:

Dwight Angus wrote:

Hi Tony
Can I position floor speakers on either side of a 9 ft screen angled towards seats or does create other issues?

cheers Dwight

Most defiantly, how much room do you have between the sides of the screen and the side walls? If I can recomend some speakers I would have to say bang for buck the SVS MTS-01 speakers would be my first choice.
You can get them directly from SVS's Canadian seller Sonic Boom Audio

**Dwight Angus** · **06-22-09, 06:36 PM**

Facing the screen I have about 20 inches between left side wall and screen and about 60 inches on the right between right side wall and screen. A major challenge will be the rewiring as all wiring is contained behind drywall. Tech room is located in a small room outside HT.

I will take a look at the SVS MTS-01 specs. Any other alternatives for comparison purposes?

**Zing** · **06-22-09, 06:55 PM**

Quote:

Dwight Angus wrote:

Can I position floor speakers on either side of a 9 ft screen angled towards seats or does create other issues?

In a word? YES.

Theoretically, you're supposed to form an equilateral triangle between the two front speakers and the listener. So in your case, if your mains need to be 9 feet apart to avoid blocking the screen, the imaging should be perfect if your listening position is 9 feet back from those speakers.

**tonyvdb** · **06-22-09, 07:17 PM**

Quote:

Dwight Angus wrote:

Facing the screen I have about 20 inches between left side wall and screen and about 60 inches on the right between right side wall and screen. A major challenge will be the rewiring as all wiring is contained behind drywall. Tech room is located in a small room outside HT.

I will take a look at the SVS MTS-01 specs. Any other alternatives for comparison purposes?

Your space available is just fine for floor standing speakers. There is one great comparison review between the SVS speakers and the B&W 604s that cost almost twice as much here.

**Zing** · **06-22-09, 07:27 PM**

Quote:

Dwight Angus wrote:

Facing the screen I have about 20 inches between left side wall and screen and about 60 inches on the right between right side wall and screen.

WOW! I completely missed this information. Why the huge disparity?

Regardless, make sure you treat that left side wall with no less than a 4" thick panel (6" would be better) and be sure to leave a 1-2" gap behind it. Otherwise, your mid and upper bass frequencies are going to sound quite thick.

**Dwight Angus** · **06-22-09, 07:54 PM**

Zing
The measurement from the listener to the left and right speaker position would be 13 ft. Looks like potential imaging problem here. Now what????

**tcarcio** · **06-22-09, 07:57 PM**

Some good advice here.

Here are a few reviews on speakers to help get you started,http://www.bestcovery.com/node/9562 Also could you move the listening position forward to compensate?

**Dwight Angus** · **06-22-09, 08:09 PM**

Tony
The SVS MTS-01 price point is attractive compared to the B&W 604. I will include it on my list of speakers to review.
BTW I am also looking to replace my Paradigm pw2100's subs with a Pb13 ultra perhaps a package deal can be worked out with Sonic Boom.

**Zing** · **06-22-09, 08:11 PM**

Quote:

Dwight Angus wrote:

Zing
The measurement from the listener to the left and right speaker position would be 13 ft. Looks like potential imaging problem here. Now what????

Not to worry. A little less speaker toe-in and you should be golden!

**Dwight Angus** · **06-22-09, 08:22 PM**

Zing
I thought that disparity would catch someones attention. On the right side of the HT I have a 36 inch wide soffit that runs the length of the HT & houses HVAC and extends down about 10 inches from the ceiling. The screen is therefore skewed to the left side of the HT. Seats are centred on the screen. The space under the soffit is wasted space. In building the room I filled the soffit with spray foam insulation to remove the echo. Room dimensions are 27ft L by 17 ft w by 8ft tall (approx 3700 cubic ft)

**bpape** · **06-22-09, 08:33 PM**

You've gotten some good advice. I'll just add a couple of things.

The non-symmetry left to right will change tonality and imaging characteristics. This can be dealt with via treatment of side wall reflections.

The echo and non-clarity in the dialog is a combination of a lack of broadband bass control and overall decay time control in the room. A multi-channel room should be relatively dead compared to a normal home space and even compared to a 2 channel listening space.

Bryan

**Dwight Angus** · **06-22-09, 09:51 PM**

Thanks Bryan
Can you tell me how to deal with the non symmetry side wall treatments? When I treated the side wall s I used 2 by 4 panels 2 inches thick at each reflection point but the approach was the same on both the left and right side walls.Your comment suggests the treatment should be different to deal with the non symmetry.

Regarding broadband bass control, although I did not install corner bass traps the entire screen wall and rear wall are built out. The screen wall is built out approx 6 inches and filled with recycled cotton while the rear wall is built out 8 inches given the proximity of rear seating to rear wall. Given the amount of broadband already in the room do you believe I still need to add more broadband? I thought the anomaly in the room is speaker related and replacing ceiling speakers with floor speakers would solve the problem.

**Dwight Angus** · **06-22-09, 09:59 PM**

Hi TC
No I could not move the listening postion forward as 2nd row of seats are on a broadloomed riser that is fixed. Maybe less speaker toe in would work as suggested by Zing.

**tonyvdb** · **06-22-09, 10:04 PM**

Quote:

Dwight Angus wrote:

Tony
The SVS MTS-01 price point is attractive compared to the B&W 604. I will include it on my list of speakers to review.
BTW I am also looking to replace my Paradigm pw2100's subs with a Pb13 ultra perhaps a package deal can be worked out with Sonic Boom.

I personally have the PB13Ultra and all I can say is its the best bang for buck out there. It is astonishing how much quality is built into such a relatively low cost sub (its nearest competition is almost twice as much) A deal is very possible if you buy a complete SVS speaker package from Sonic Boom Audio.

**bpape** · **06-23-09, 07:37 AM**

Hi Dwight.

The front wall is thicker than I normally recommend. Usually, we just do 2" on the front wall and do the corners 12" thick or so.

On the rear wall, 8" is great. I'd use some sort of facing on it though to minimize upper mid and high frequency absorption so as not to kill the surround field.

On the side walls, what you did is fine. I'd likely add 1 more on the closer wall directly to the side of the main speaker to help with boundary (SBIR) issues in the vocal range and down.

Bryan

**Dwight Angus** · **06-23-09, 11:45 AM**

Got it
thanks Bryan

I just thought of another task that needs to be done. I used 2 inch thick BMC board for the side walls. Given that I installed inceiling speakers these panels are located much higher on the side walls as the reflection points are much higher. When I switch to floor model speakers obviously these panels will then need to be moved down the wall to correspond with the new lower reflection points.
Sounds like I need to revisit the mirror test procedure.

Is there anything else that needs to be done that I have missed?

**Dwight Angus** · **06-23-09, 12:00 PM**

Tony
My HT is 27ft long 17 ft wide and 8ft tall. Will the SVS MTS-01's perform well enough and big enough to fill this space or do I need something with more punch?

Yeah the ultra does sound impressive. I am sure I will notice a big difference vs my old paradigm pw2100's. Depending on budget dollars and what I can negotiate with Sonic boom perhaps I go with 2 ultra's however I could have a significant WAF to deal with here. Negotiating with Sonic boom maybe the easier discussion.

Do you know where I can demo svs speakers? Do Sonic Boom have any demo rooms?

**tonyvdb** · **06-23-09, 12:26 PM**

Quote:

Dwight Angus wrote:

Tony
My HT is 27ft long 17 ft wide and 8ft tall. Will the SVS MTS-01's perform well enough and big enough to fill this space or do I need something with more punch?

They will have no issue in that size room. The MTS-01's are about the same size/quality as the speakers I have and my space is even larger than yours (15x37' with an 8' ceiling.

Quote:

Do you know where I can demo svs speakers? Do Sonic Boom have any demo rooms?

I'm not sure if sonic Boom has a place to demo them as they are an internet only company (saves you money) however they are very helpful I would give them a call or email them and see what they can do for you. They do have a money back guarantee if you dont like them however I highly doubt that you wont.

**Dwight Angus** · **06-23-09, 04:15 PM**

Tony, I will call Sonic Boom and see what they offer. Your probably right, with the money back guarantee there is no downside risk.

Cheers
Dwight

**tonyvdb** · **06-23-09, 04:42 PM**

Quote:

Dwight Angus wrote:

Your probably right, with the money back guarantee there is no downside risk.

And they are fairly close to where you live so thats an added bonus in that you would get your system fast.

**Dwight Angus** · **06-24-09, 08:16 AM**

Yeah Sonic Boom is about an hour's drive from my location. I could probably pickup the SVS MTS-01 from their warehouse and save the shipping costs. Not sure about the ultras given their size/weight etc

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