Paradigm Studio/Monitor VS Axiom Audio

[8086]

I am a big fan of Paradigm Speakers and have been for more than a decade and half, but recently in the past few years I have become intrigued by Axiom as an alternative brand. I have heard they are comparable to Paradigm and wondered for some time now how do they compare? Are they better or just as good as Paradigm Studio? Are they just the same or better than Paradigm's best of the Monitor (Monitor 9 or 11) line? How do axiom subs compare to the Paradigm PW-2200 (I have 1)?

[Sonnie]

Doesn't Axiom have a trial period so that you can compare them directly in your room?

The Axiom EP-600 was tested twice by Ilkka... results in our Subwoofer Tests forum.

[jackfish]

I am concerned about the possible phase/comb filtering interference with those paired drivers next to each other in the M80 and VP-150 Axioms. I think the Paradigms and PSBs are a better engineered and elegant design. I'd stick with Paradigm or PSB.

[jcb]

Hi Jackfish,

In the world of audio, double-blind listening tests rule. Don't let your judgement be influenced by looks, technology and/or dollars. Have you personally verified or experimented the effect of comb filtering? You might be in for quite a surprise.

You might find the design of the Paradigm and PSB more elegant that is a question of personal taste but "better engineered" is a statement which needs to be supported.

8086,

As per Sonnie's suggestion opt for a direct comparaison in your own home; it can be done with Axiom's home-trial-offer. The most important thing when comparing them is volume level - be sure to keep it equal.

Enjoy shopping for and comparing speakers. One thing is sure is that you cannot go wrong with Paradigm, PSB or Axiom.

[jackfish]

jcb wrote:

Have you personally verified or experimented the effect of comb filtering? You might be in for quite a surprise.

I live with the effects of comb filtering/phase interference everyday. It is well documented in the literature that these effects are real and can be measured. How they affect any given individual's listening perception is less well understood. I think my stacked double Large Advents sound good, others contend they cannot because of measured aberrations in frequency response.

[8086]

jcb wrote:

Hi Jackfish,

In the world of audio, double-blind listening tests rule. Don't let your judgement be influenced by looks, technology and/or dollars. Have you personally verified or experimented the effect of comb filtering? You might be in for quite a surprise.

You might find the design of the Paradigm and PSB more elegant that is a question of personal taste but "better engineered" is a statement which needs to be supported.

8086,

As per Sonnie's suggestion opt for a direct comparaison in your own home; it can be done with Axiom's home-trial-offer. The most important thing when comparing them is volume level - be sure to keep it equal.

Enjoy shopping for and comparing speakers. One thing is sure is that you cannot go wrong with Paradigm, PSB or Axiom.

The beautiful thing about Paradigm is that Auditions usually do not cost you anything. However, if I want to try Axiom, I must fork over money for return $hipping or keep them. Auditioning Axiom could potentially bring my hunt for speakers to an early end before I really find something I like.

[Solid-State]

jackfish wrote:

I am concerned about the possible phase/comb filtering interference with those paired drivers next to each other in the M80 and VP-150 Axioms. I think the Paradigms and PSBs are a better engineered and elegant design. I'd stick with Paradigm or PSB.

I have to say your concerns are VERY VALID. I have said speakers and want to sell due to your concerns I've personally observed and measured. The VP150 is particularly affected by this on the horizontal axis as is the "syllabus". The phase/combing causes a distinct "sss" or "ssssh" on every word with an S is almost unbearable to me. The M80 also has these issues due to the dual tweeters though not as pronounced as the VP150 on the horizontal axis. I found the height of the M80 does place your ear right around the tweet section so you have to raise them to the published NRC test mike heights to avoid this issue. With your ear in around the two tweeters at default height a slight shift vertically perhaps as little as 10 degrees from 1m reveals the phase/canceling/combing. To be very honest IMHO I can't believe these two speakers get 5/5 ratings they do and this is someone who's dropped 10k on their gear (owner of the AMAZING 8 chan ice class-D) and indirectly moved $20k in referrals. I really like the bookshelf speakers, surrounds and some of the subs. I just really have a problem with the VP150 and some issues with the M80. If you do elect to have an in house trial, Axiom will be a pleasure to deal with. Absolutely top notch in that regard. I also have to be fair and realistic as to what's being spent here. These speakers are under $700 bucks a pop so this has to be taken into consideration. These gripes are not deal breakers if you're after "bang for the buck" etc. I still feel with perhaps 20% more spent you could get a much better speaker in a tower or center. The two old adages stand, "You get what you pay for" and "Buyer beware!" as in beware of what return shipping will nail you!

Solid-State

PS Could anyone tell me why there are secondary magnets glued to the back of each magnet drive assembly of the Axiom woofers? Add weight?

[Solid-State]

jcb wrote:

Hi Jackfish,

In the world of audio, double-blind listening tests rule. Don't let your judgement be influenced by looks, technology and/or dollars. Have you personally verified or experimented the effect of comb filtering? You might be in for quite a surprise.

You might find the design of the Paradigm and PSB more elegant that is a question of personal taste but "better engineered" is a statement which needs to be supported.

8086,

As per Sonnie's suggestion opt for a direct comparaison in your own home; it can be done with Axiom's home-trial-offer. The most important thing when comparing them is volume level - be sure to keep it equal.

Enjoy shopping for and comparing speakers. One thing is sure is that you cannot go wrong with Paradigm, PSB or Axiom.

Dude comes in here and singles out this one thread for his one post! (pot calling the kettle black OOPS!)

If this isn't an example of a sly astroturfing plug I don't know what is!

PS As for "Better Engineered" Perhaps Ian is onto something with the VP150 as it seems no one else in the industry has a TMMMT center arrangement. If this is the case I'd like to see it "supported" by NRC tests LOL

[jakewash]

8086 wrote:

The beautiful thing about Paradigm is that Auditions usually do not cost you anything. However, if I want to try Axiom, I must fork over money for return $hipping or keep them. Auditioning Axiom could potentially bring my hunt for speakers to an early end before I really find something I like.

Try looking at Axiom's forum, the Hearing things section, and look for a possible nearby owner willing to give you a demo, this way it costs you no more than a stop into a store would.

I have done an A/B test with M80s and Monitor 11's and found the M80s to be more detailed and better bass extension, more like the Studio 100's, yet for the same dollar spent as the Monitor 11.

As for the issues Solid State brought up, that is for you to hear and decide, I for one do not notice any issues with my M80s nor VP150, nor do any of the people I have given a demo to.

[Jungle Jack]

Hello,
I am a huge fan of Paradigm Speakers. In fact, it was the Paradigm 7 SE MKIII that I purchased my first semester in college that started me down the road of audiodorkdom. Before switching over to Martin Logan speakers, I ran Paradigm Studio 100 V2's, Studio CC V2, Studio ADP V2, and a Servo 15 as my main speaker array and loved them.

However, when the Studio V3 came out, I really was disappointed to see that the cabinets where not nearly as well braced and the weight of the speakers came down. The Studio 100 V2's weighed 110 pounds each while the Studio 100 V3's weighed 81 pounds. Amazingly the Studio 100 V2's weigh more than Paradigm's flagship Signature S8 (110 lbs vs 100 lbs). Though I do love the Beryllium tweeters on the S8. It just seems as time has gone by, their speakers have become more stylish and less overbuilt.

Axiom offers amazing value and are very well engineered. The M80 V2 really is an awesome speaker at a price that seems too good to be true. And yet, the measurements back up the impression of it being an exceptional speaker. I have listened to the M80 and was blown away at how good it sounds.

Without question ID companies have a huge advantage in the price/performance ratio. When selling direct, the savings are huge. There is something lost when not being able to audition a speaker at a store before making a purchase. And it is a pain to send back a speaker from an ID company if it does not suit you. Not the ability to return it, rather boxing it up and shipping it out. Yet, as more and more independent Hifi shops close down, the opportunity to audition speakers that are well setup and properly driven is becoming a rarity anywhere.

Unfortunately, many stores which represent high end speaker companies do not even stock the entire lines anymore often requiring you to order them in negating that traditional advantage. Much of this seems to stem from many Hifi stores going for the Custom Installation route instead. Lucky are the ones who live in cities with shops where they can audition a speaker in a properly setup space with other speakers to compare and contrast.

The ideal situation when interested in a particular speaker from a ID company is the opportunity to listen to it prior to purchase. It is really neat that Axiom has a forum which encourages the practice of home demonstrations.

Either way, you cannot lose if choosing between Paradigm and Axiom. They are both excellent companies which make well engineered speakers.
Cheers,
JJ

[GregBe]

Many people who have demoed both, have said they have a similar sound quality. If you like the sound of Paradigm, Axiom might be a good option.