Mating bookshelfs with subwoofer

**FidelitySeeker** · **09-06-09, 12:49 AM**

I have been auditioning every bookshelf speaker I can. Since I plan to mate the speakers with a sub in a 2.1 system, I have not worried about bass performance.
The Paradigm Signature S-1 has impressed with it's capability in the mid and high frequencies. No other speaker has extended as high as these with such clarity, and I believe they represent an amazing value ($1500 MSRP). It is also just cool to have this much high quality sound coming from such small speakers (they have an impressive dynamic range with a good amp behind them).

However, as I contemplate buying these speakers, I am beginning to second-guess my approach. These small, sealed bookshelf speakers drop off at 72Hz (+/-2dB). Will there be problems properly blending these with a sub? Do I need more bass extension?

Paradigm offers the S2 which uses the same tweeter and should have about the same sound, with a larger, ported mid-bass driver. Unfortunately, at $2300 MSRP it is really more than I'd like to spend on speakers. However, it is better to blow my budget than spend $1500 on the S-1's and not be happy once I mated them to the sub!

FWIW, my receiver includes Audyssey and the application is 100% music.

Thank you for your help!

**Kal Rubinson** · **09-06-09, 01:06 PM**

Which receiver and which version of Audyssey does it have?

**SteveCallas** · **09-06-09, 03:57 PM**

I don't know how many speakers you have auditioned, but if not too many, I would recommend you listen to a few more in that same price range. While the Paradigm Signatures are their highest line, they are charging a hefty premium.....to me it seems like they are artifically trying to put themselves into a higher category.

This is only to my ears though.

To your question, never underestimate capability in the upper bass frequencies of 80-200hz. That can make or break your whole bass presentation. Talk to anyone who has a monster subwoofer and small bookshelves - there seems to always be a lack of punch.

**FidelitySeeker** · **09-06-09, 05:23 PM**

Quote:

Kal Rubinson wrote:

Which receiver and which version of Audyssey does it have?

Marantz SR6001. The manual and spec sheet only specify Audyssey MultEQ automatic calibration with no mention of version. Perhaps it is the first version - before they needed to indicate which version?

**FidelitySeeker** · **09-06-09, 05:47 PM**

Quote:

SteveCallas wrote:

I don't know how many speakers you have auditioned, but if not too many, I would recommend you listen to a few more in that same price range. While the Paradigm Signatures are their highest line, they are charging a hefty premium.....to me it seems like they are artifically trying to put themselves into a higher category.
This is only to my ears though.

>>>>>>>>>Any suggestions on others in that price range to try out? Like I say, the aspect that impressed me was the clarity and extension of the tweeter. I plan to get them side-by-side with some other speakers just to make sure I'm not fooling myself, but, to my ear, the Studio series had the extension, but not the clarity; while Stat Acoustics had the clarity without the extension. Paradigm's tweeter in the S1 seems to offer the best of both without any penalty! I am open to other options, but the high frequency performance of the S1 seems hard to beat.

To your question, never underestimate capability in the upper bass frequencies of 80-200hz. That can make or break your whole bass presentation. Talk to anyone who has a monster subwoofer and small bookshelves - there seems to always be a lack of punch.

>>>>>>>>>Thanks.

Thanks

**Kal Rubinson** · **09-06-09, 07:29 PM**

Quote:

FidelitySeeker wrote:

Marantz SR6001. The manual and spec sheet only specify Audyssey MultEQ automatic calibration with no mention of version. Perhaps it is the first version - before they needed to indicate which version?

Nope. MultEQ is what it says: Not as good as MultEQ XT but a world better than 2EQ (which does not EQ the sub at all). Steve's suggestions should be attended to (and no version of Audyssey can compensate for a lack of power handling in the mid- to upper-bass) but, whatever sub you may choose will be helped considerably.

**tonyvdb** · **09-06-09, 09:40 PM**

I do agree that for a budget of $1500 I am sure you can find some speakers that preform better than the Signature S-1 particularly in the lower range. A 72Hz drop-off will mean that if you like to run them at a decent level they wont output very much at 80Hz where most people set their crossovers and is recommended.
Have you looked at the SVS line of speakers?

**SteveCallas** · **09-07-09, 12:13 AM**

Quote:

FidelitySeeker wrote:

Any suggestions on others in that price range to try out?

Does it need to be a bookshelf speaker?

I'm partial to Boston Acoustics, so I'll toss the VS 260 out there first.

There is the Exodus Audio Kepler.

Salk SongSurround I's.

Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1.

SVS MBS-01.

Totem Acoustics Model 1.

So many others too. I'm not trying to sway your opinion by any means, all I'm saying is if you are going to spend $1500 on bookshelves, make sure you've listened to as many options as you can.

If you are open to floorstanders, your options have just tripled

**nova** · **09-07-09, 01:35 PM**

Curious,... what are some of the bookshelf speakers you have auditioned that didn't meet your expectations?

**FidelitySeeker** · **09-07-09, 09:35 PM**

Yes, I am only looking at bookshelf speakers.

I'm not sure what is considered proper regarding pricing, but it seems too relevant to not state actual prices I have been quoted instead of MSRP:
S-1 @ $1200 (20% off)
S-2 @ $1800 (25% off)

So far, I have listened to the following on an A-B basis (prices are as I remember them):

Paradigm Studio 20 v5 $800 (discounted price)
NHT Classic 3 $850
Vandersteen VLR $1000
PSB Imagine B $1000
Totem Rainmaker $1000
RBH 61-LSE (Discontinued, but same as current RBH 61-SE/R using Status Acoustics drivers $2600).

For me and among these, the RBH had the best sound (not a big surprise). The Paradigm Studio 20 is my second favorite, and Totem the 3rd. The Paradigm actually had more High Freq extension than the RBH, but the RBH was clearer. I believe the beryllium tweeter of the Paradigm S1 v2 provided the clarity of the RBH and the extension of the Studio20's. However, I need to audition the S1/2 v2 with the Studio20 and RBH to verify this.
Thanks!

**FidelitySeeker** · **09-07-09, 11:15 PM**

Quote:

SteveCallas wrote:

Does it need to be a bookshelf speaker?

I'm partial to Boston Acoustics, so I'll toss the VS 260 out there first.

There is the Exodus Audio Kepler.

Salk SongSurround I's.

Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1.

SVS MBS-01.

Totem Acoustics Model 1.

So many others too. I'm not trying to sway your opinion by any means, all I'm saying is if you are going to spend $1500 on bookshelves, make sure you've listened to as many options as you can.

If you are open to floorstanders, your options have just tripled

Thanks,
That is an interesting list which deserves some thought. Of course, the biggest barrier is how can I audition these. I have a local Totem dealer, so that should work okay (if they stock this model). Do you happen to know if the BA's are sold at Fry's or Best Buy? I'm guessing the SVS, Salks, and the Ascend would cost about $40 each to ship back. The Exodus is really interesting, but it seems pretty awkward to have to build a speaker to see if you like it. Can I trial the pre-built and return them if I didn't like (or order the kit if I did)?

**nova** · **09-08-09, 11:40 AM**

Another couple I'd suggest you audition, and should not be too difficult to find a place, the Revel Performa M22, as long as you're there check the Concerta M12 (these are about half your budget and may be just what you're looking for) and the Monitor Audio gs10.

As for the RBH,... I'm biased, I'd get them

. 61-SE/R is a great speaker. I'd double check your prices though. The Status Acoustic Decimo is about $2800 and last I saw the 61-SE/R comes in about $1499 in black.

**FidelitySeeker** · **09-08-09, 01:21 PM**

Quote:

nova wrote:

As for the RBH,... I'm biased, I'd get them

. 61-SE/R is a great speaker. I'd double check your prices though. The Status Acoustic Decimo is about $2800 and last I saw the 61-SE/R comes in about $1499 in black.

You are probably right. RBH pricing is not easy to find the internet (at least for the signature series).
I was guessing/remembering the price from an Audioholics review - http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...signature-se-r
They could not have made determining the actual price anymore confusing.

Thanks, I'll look into the others.

**SteveCallas** · **09-08-09, 06:01 PM**

You would need to ask Kevin Haskins (he's on this forum), but I'm pretty sure you can audition the finished Kepler's as long as you cover shipping and don't damage them.

The Bostons's mentioned are their high end, so you would probably need to find an audio shop that carries Boston to listen to them.

**FidelitySeeker** · **09-09-09, 08:41 PM**

Thanks Steve.
It looks like they are discontinuing the Kepler's!
(see the Exodus forum)

**GregBe** · **09-12-09, 03:20 PM**

For $1500, I think you are going down the right path of getting the best bookshelf you can, vs going with a floorstander at that price point. I would agree with most here, to audition like crazy. I found, I liked the Era D5 ($1000) better than the Monitor Audio GR10 ($1500) I had previously. All ears are different...speakers are a VERY personal choice.

Advertisement