40Hz-20kHz no tweeter...

**Rodny Alvarez** · **11-07-06, 11:24 PM**

I guess this is the way new systems will be, just full range speakers no tweeters..

http://www.eclipse-td.com/e34_td712z/index.html

**Sonnie** · **11-07-06, 11:51 PM**

Hmmm... I didn't know Eclipse was in the home.

How about that A502 amp? http://www.eclipse-td.com/e09_a502/index.html

That's some weird lookin' stuff.

**Steve Williamson** · **11-08-06, 03:54 AM**

That A502 amp states that a powerful new amp is needed in its description, then the specs show Rated Output: 30W x 2ch (at T.H.D.=1%)

I'd rather have a valve amp at 40w per channel.

**russ.will** · **11-08-06, 08:02 AM**

I heard a pair of the 712s a couple of years ago at a Hi-fi show and they were absolutely stunning. The sense of drive imparted to music by their flawless timing is most excellent.

The caveatis that they are very directional. Standing around waiting for a turn in the sweetspot chair left you wondering what the fuss was about. Once you were in the direct line of fire the expanse and precision of the sound stage was immense.

I wouldn't call them full range though especially at the bottom end, but I wouldn't want to spoil their manifest qualities by adding a poorly matched sub.

If you like weird single driver stuff, try these: Manger Swing

A review of their Zerobox 109 is here.

Ok I know it's not quite a full range driver but it does reach down to 80Hz and doesn't suffer the directional nature of singlr cone drivers.

I love loudspeakers. There's always something new.

Russell

**drf** · **11-11-06, 10:18 PM**

although it is a good theory to have no crossever and avoid a bucket load of asociated issues, it looks like this company is more concerned with appearance than full spectrum sound reproduction, especially that amp.
Still I should not disregard something I haven't heard, as one of the above posters stated they sound good to them.

**Josuah** · **11-12-06, 12:19 PM**

The specs page itself lists the window of 40Hz-20kHz as -10dB. And the sensitivity is a horrendous 83.5dB with max 70W. This is why people don't build speakers with a single driver for all the octaves. You're going to get extremely non-linear response as you go above 35W (or maybe even less, given 35W is the rating, and 70W is the max).

**02-07-07, 03:49 PM**

yeah, eclipse needs to re-spec them more realistically. -10db drop is ridiculous. these are monitors not fullrange and they need to market it that way.

the stereophile revew says they don't go very loud or low but the sound is supposedly very detailed with amazing imaging.

is the high detail sound normal for single driver designs?

my zu's are uncannny in their midrange detail. haven't heard a speaker come close tothem.

**Josuah** · **02-08-07, 03:36 AM**

They're not even "monitors". A decent monitor is still fairly flat from say 100Hz-20kHz. You probably have less other issues like the effects of a crossover or driver integration, etc. Regardless, what is said in the subjective part of Stereophile reviews doesn't always correspond to the measured parts of their same reviews. People can say good things about horrible speakers if they happen to like the sound.

I looked at Zu's briefly, and while I think they probably sound great in the single driver's "comfort-zone", I doubt they're very good outside of it. But I haven't heard them or seen measurements.

**Chester** · **05-22-07, 08:17 AM**

look at DC Gold (www.dcgold.com), previously Babb audio, they dont have specs up yet however I am running a pair of Lorelei's which sound excellent. I cross them over at 90 hz however they are sealed so with a passive radiator I could milk a bit more low end from them...

**jackfish** · **05-22-07, 09:34 AM**

Come on! 40 Hz to 20 kHz at -10dB? Competent frequency response at +/- 3dB is necessarily quite different. They may sound great with subwoofer support but I doubt they are competent full range drivers. They mention the lack of a tweeter as if it is difficult to achieve high frequencies from a 4.72" driver. Their real difficulty is at the low end which I would guess is actually something more like 100Hz +/- 3dB. They should stick to making hard drives.

**Chester** · **05-25-07, 07:49 AM**

do you honestly expect any fullrange to sound good without a sub? granted their name states 'fullrange' however even if you could get a flat bass response out of them they would be traveling so far to create any spl in the bass end that the doppler effect would be incredibly apparant
see: http://www.linkwitzlab.com/frontiers.htm#J

yes, you could use a rear horn to coupple the fullrange to air better and improve bass efficency however this is a consumer grade product, they arent going to take up 3-4 sq ft of floor space per speaker here... perhaps you could use the drivers in a horn loaded config? I have never built one before, just sealed, ported, passive radiator...

EDIT: granted it is a real dick move to post the -10 db mark on a speaker... 99% of people do not know that this means 1/2 the percieved volume at whatever frequency it is rated for; shady marketing...

**phaseshift** · **06-02-07, 04:19 AM**

OK, there is a 4.7" driver, so you can bet your bunnies that the bass is going to be a little weak and getting the level matched for all the rest of the audio band is going to be tough. Guess that sheds some light on the 83 and change sensitivity eh?

Anyone have a response curve on these puppies (anechoic response)? I bet the marketing folks left out a + in the spec - as in +- 10 dB. I would have to see and hear that to believe it.

I have worked on a pipe dream project where we were hired to do something like this for a dreamer with money... It was painful and of course does not work unless you give the marketing guys a lot of artistic license. Uphill battle that has Mother Nature at the top of the hill.

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