Martin Logan -- Looking for Experience and Opinions

[Otto]

Hi there,

Well, I've been using Definitive Technology BP2002TL towers (and center and surround) for about a year and a half now. I'm really starting to find them somewhat bright, forward and aggressive. They're OK, they get loud, and I like the bipolar thing for movies, but they just aren't "it" for me.

So I went to the brand new Best Buy Magnolia Hi-Fi shop in my little town yesterday afternoon. We listened to Vienna Acoustics, Martin Logan and DefTech. The Viennas (Bach model perhaps -- they were about $1300 each) were very nice, but broke up at higher volume levels. I'd have to step up to the bigger brothers to get away from that breakup, and that will get to be too expensive (I'm thinking $2k+ each -- too much).

We also listened to the Martin Logan "Clarity". These are $1,400 each new, but a quick search shows some for sale at audiogon.com for ~$1,500 for the pair. Much more reasonable.

I really liked the sound of the Logans. Definitely more laid back than the DefTechs. The dipolar electrostatic design gives that open soundstage. Imagining was excellent, although the setup was less than ideal. They didn't seem to break up at volume. I would have to do some more listening if I were really going to buy these, but at first blush, they seemed good. Plus they simply look incredible -- very sleek and modern.

So, I'm looking for opinions on Martin Logan in general. What's good, what's bad? Which models are some type of Martin Logan experiment, and which are solid performers?

I'm using them in a 3,500 ft^3 room, and I'm probably 70/30 movies/music. I definitely want some slam and presence for movies, and detail for music.

In the past, I've had the following speakers: PSB 40mkII, B&W DM602, Magnepan MMG, Energy bookshelves and the DefTechs. I always liked the Maggies, but they didn't have the SPL, and I never got into the big brothers. I'm thinking that the Logans might be somewhat similar. To drive these guys, I "should have" plenty of power in my Sunfire Cinema Grand (200W per), but that amp is in limbo right now. Whether it gets fixed or replaced, I should end up with enough power to drive a pair of Logans. I also have an IB, so I don't care too much about massive low-end bass response. The specs on the Clarity indicate a -3 dB point of 46 Hz, and that would be fine with me.

Anyway, looking for opinions, comments and so on.
Thanks!

[Sonnie]

A speaker I've always wanted... and wish I could afford. If there was ever a speaker that I could really tell a difference it would be ML's. The only way I'd ever be able to afford them would be via Audiogon.

One person I know could give you some insight would be Jerry Rappaport over at NLAV. He just got some ML's not long ago and he is about as picky as they come.

ML's are very nice speakers. They image well and do the subtle detail in music like few speakers can. That said they can be difficult to drive with very low impedance dips and the matching center channel isn't cheap which can be an issue in a HT setup. There's also complaints that the ribbon panel doesn't always blend seemlessly with the cone woofer but I think that's less of an issue then it once was on older models.

Still like Sonnie, martin logans are one of those speakers that I've long since lusted after and came close to buying on numerous times. What else have you listened to that you liked? Is there an Usher dealer close by?

[khellandros66]

I remember being blow away at HE2002, me and my dad couldn't get past how transient these speakers were. We listened to the DVD-Audio track of ELP's Luck Man and wowzers.

Another speaker that took the seat right out from under me were the Acoustic Zen Adaigo Series.

~Bob

[Otto]

Andrew Pratt wrote:

ML's are very nice speakers. They image well and do the subtle detail in music like few speakers can. That said they can be difficult to drive with very low impedance dips and the matching center channel isn't cheap which can be an issue in a HT setup. There's also complaints that the ribbon panel doesn't always blend seemlessly with the cone woofer but I think that's less of an issue then it once was on older models.

Well, Sonnie referenced NLAV, and I was like "huh?" Nice to meet you, Andrew, and I may come looking for Jerry as well.

Yeah, I went and listened again last night with a couple clips from The Matrix and a Dave Matthews live acoustic track. They sounded very nice, maybe a little beamy when off-axis. I started talking to the salesman (also the Mag Hi Fi manager) about demos at my house, so we'll see what happens. Per my other thread, my Sunfire 5-ch amp is currently smashed (really, it got smashed by UPS), so I wouldn't audition any MLs with the Denon 5-ch receiver I'm currently using.

Last night, my wife was out, so I was able to play a bit with my current setup. I listened to a variety of 2-ch music on the DefTechs, and I must say that they really do sound pretty good. Imaging and soundstage are excellent, but perhaps not as open as the Logans. Of course, it's hard to tell differences when listening from the store to your home a few hours later. However, while sounding "good" soundstaging and imaging, I now doubly believe that they also sound "harsh" in the highs, especially at volume.

So I started thinking about perphaps replacing just the tweeters in the DefTechs. There is a nice-looking Morel textile dome tweeter in the latest PE catalog, and I might give that a try. Yeah, I'm pretty much going to ignore the effects of the crossover, but I'm willing to give it a try. Definitely cheaper than the Logans.

Still like Sonnie, martin logans are one of those speakers that I've long since lusted after and came close to buying on numerous times. What else have you listened to that you liked? Is there an Usher dealer close by?

Other speakers that I liked? I always liked the Maggies, so maybe I should head south to Denver and do a demo again. Years ago, I listened to some small Dunlavys. I alsmost bought them.

As for Usher, I don't think I've heard of them. I'll have to check them out.

Thanks.

[jerome]

Martin Logan speakers are special. What makes them so different from the rest is their electrostatic panels, especially the ESL panels.
Large and wide sound stage, warm sound, mids are what I like the most. Design is quite good too
On the other end, limited SPL and limited sweet spot are negative factors. Getting a good image can be tricky too.

I could list all the pros and cons I know but at the end, it all depends on what kind of sound you like and what kind of music you listen to.
These speakers are not build to play very loud music or have in a party if you see what I mean. You can play loud music but some other brands are much better at doing so. These are exceptional with vocals and good recorded music.
I listened to many speakers in the same price range before I bought my Vista but couldn't buy something else ...

When it comes to finding a center speaker to match them, I don't see this as a problem. I use one from Swans for instance and others I know use some from Audiovector. The most important is to find a center speaker with the same kind of sound, doesn't mean that you have to buy an ML too.

Go for ML, you will love them too !!!

[Kruppy]

Hey Otto,
For detailed info you need to check out www.martinloganowners.com you'll find a lot of answers to your questions there.

[thxgoon]

Hey Otto! From my experience with the DefTechs - the 2002 and lower were noticably brighter than their BP2000/BP7001. If you like the sound of the DefTechs then go listen to the BP7001's. They are significatnly smoother and IMO one of the best sounding speakers you can buy. You don't need the bass so if you are savvy enough on the internet keep an eye out for some BP30's. They are the same speaker minus the supercube sub. Also, look for a CLR2000 center as it has the same drivers as the 7001/30 and is smoother IMO than the CLR2002. I know in our area DefTech is still sold at Ultimate Electronics, although they have moved them to the multiple speaker rooms I think that ML would be the king of 'presence' in the speaker world though. Keep us posted!

[Otto]

Hey guys,

I see some recent response to my old thread! Thanks. Now it's Sonnie that has the MLs!

I ended up going with Vandersteen 3A Signatures -- it's been almost a year now, and I really enjoy them. I have been tweaking with them recently, and they're sounding pretty good. I recently mounted a plasma on the wall, so I was able to get rid of the big cabinet and DLP TV that were between the speakers. It really, really seems to open up imaging -- a huge improvement!

Anyway, thanks for the comments, and more are welcome!