Home Theater 5.1 help appreciated

[jinjuku]

I am helping a co-worker put together a $5K home theater system. We have decided on the projector:

Optoma HD70
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/p...rs/optoma-hd70

Receiver:

Pioneer Elite VSX-82TXS
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pn...985777,00.html

Now is where I think I need some help. Choosing Speakers at $1000 and under.

I have the following for consideration:

BIC Acoustech
http://bicamerica.com/showpage.php?brand=1

AV123 X-cs
http://www.av123.com/products_produc...s&product=93.1

Ascend
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/
The 170's with an HSU sub (they don't currently offered matched subs).

Any one have experience with one or more? Any critiques on the projector or receiver?

The left over money will be furniture and screen...

Thanks everyone...

[Sonnie]

I'm moving this to Home Audio Speakers.

Hi jinjuku and welcome to the Shack!

Sounds like a nice setup.

I've read some really nice remarks about the Ascends and the x-cs series. They have a similar design and either might do well. If I'm pricing it out right, it looks like the x-cs system is less expensive when comparing like systems, however, I'd probably opt for the sub upgrade. I don't think you'll get to $1000 with the Ascends and a sub, not even using the CBM-170's.

[Sonnie]

Another system you might consider is the SVS SBS-01 5.1 Surround Sound Speakers with PB10-NSD - Black for $999. I'm using the SBS-01's in my system now and they are really nice speakers. I've not heard the newer PB10-NSD, but if it's anything like the older PB10-ISD, it will be nice. I used it in my large great room playing WOTW and it sounded great to me.

[jinjuku]

I wonder how they sound 'musically' compared to the larger front L+R speakers from av123 and BIC.

Sorry, I should of mentioned that 'some' music will be played

I have heard that the SVSound subs are killer.

Thanks for the heads up.

[Sonnie]

I can't compare them to Ascends or the x-cs model since I've not heard either of those. When playing David Gilmour in Concert or the Eagles, I believe the SBS-01's do very well. I don't know about 2-channel. You can also opt for a pair of SCS-01's for the L/R front speakers and have the MTM comparison. I don't think the extra is that much... SVS could give you a direct quote. I think you'd still be in the ballpark for total cost in comparison to the other two systems, and you'd have a very nice sub.

[SteveCallas]

You probably don't want to hear this, but I'd spend less on the receiver it if means you can spend more on speakers. $1000 for 5 speakers and a sub means some aspect is going to be compromised, and great sound, including a great sub, adds a LOT to the experience. Big video is nice, but I think great audio is even better, and speakers affect sound much, much more than a receiver.

[Otto]

I can't agree with Steve more. Trade off some of that receiver budget for better speakers.

[JCD]

Please don't feel like we're ganging up on you, but I'm voting for less on the receiver and more on the speakers. My general rule of thumb is to spend 70% on the speakers and 30% on the receiver and other electronics. The difference between a $400 receiver and a $1200 receiver is more in the feature set than the quality of audio. If that gives you an extra $800 to add for speakers, I think there are several packages that you could find that will give you some really good sound.

Four more things:

1. Don't buy a store bought sub. The offerings from SVS or Hsu are going to give you way more bang for your buck.
2. I think you'd be surprised at how "musical" the bookshelves can be. I'm actually a proponent for bookshelves as I think it's easier to place them properly in a room.
3. Room acoustics are almost as important to the ultimate sound of your system as the speakers, and far more so than the electronics (IMHO of course). You might want to drop a question in the acoustics section for some advice in treating your room. Good speakers in a bad room sound bad. Good speakers in a good room can actually sound great. Again, IMHO.
4. You MUST let us know what you end up doing.

Good luck.

JCD

[jinjuku]

JCD wrote:

Please don't feel like we're ganging up on you, but I'm voting for less on the receiver and more on the speakers. My general rule of thumb is to spend 70% on the speakers and 30% on the receiver and other electronics. The difference between a $400 receiver and a $1200 receiver is more in the feature set than the quality of audio. If that gives you an extra $800 to add for speakers, I think there are several packages that you could find that will give you some really good sound.

Four more things:

1. Don't buy a store bought sub. The offerings from SVS or Hsu are going to give you way more bang for your buck.
2. I think you'd be surprised at how "musical" the bookshelves can be. I'm actually a proponent for bookshelves as I think it's easier to place them properly in a room.
3. Room acoustics are almost as important to the ultimate sound of your system as the speakers, and far more so than the electronics (IMHO of course). You might want to drop a question in the acoustics section for some advice in treating your room. Good speakers in a bad room sound bad. Good speakers in a good room can actually sound great. Again, IMHO.
4. You MUST let us know what you end up doing.

Good luck.

JCD

Thanks for all the advice. I am used to the 70/30 rule when it comes to music speakers (Hence my low ish' Denon AVR-85 with my PSB Century 500i's and matching sub).

The only problem with dumping the receiver is I loose HDMI and a really nice video scaling unit that the Pioneer has: Faroudja DCDi HD. This will take any video input source and knock it over to HDMI, and it does multi room which is part of the plan. I think I can get another $300 out of the budget for speakers (budgets were meant to be broken).

I have heard nothing but great things about the BIC H100 sub btw. It is under $300.

The room is going to be acoustically treated and tuned. The Pioneer comes with a mic and I have access to a high end Berhinger EQ and Crown Mic if need be. I will definitely take your advice and check out the other sub-forum...

We are doing this in Akron, Oh. Sooo I am going to go out to Youngstown and get a pair of the SCS-01's (since they let you try them for 45 days), Also BIC is actually on the way to Youngstown, I will see if I can't get them to do the same with the HT-75's. I will let you know if BIC stands behind their product like the competition does.

Now, if I talk him out of the theater seating with rumble.... That would free up a ton of cash

[jackfish]

The original line of Infinity Primus speakers is in closeout right now. You can get a pair of the Infinity Primus 250 floorstanders for $270. You can get a pair of Infinity Primus 150 bookshelves for $140. You can get the Infinity Primus C25 center for $100. You can get the Infinity PS12 subwoofer for $260. These are an incredible value at $770 total.

http://www.stereophile.com/budgetcom...s/404infinity/

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...s-10-2003.html

[JCD]

jinjuku wrote:

Thanks for all the advice. I am used to the 70/30 rule when it comes to music speakers (Hence my low ish' Denon AVR-85 with my PSB Century 500i's and matching sub).

The only problem with dumping the receiver is I loose HDMI and a really nice video scaling unit that the Pioneer has: Faroudja DCDi HD. This will take any video input source and knock it over to HDMI, and it does multi room which is part of the plan. I think I can get another $300 out of the budget for speakers (budgets were meant to be broken).

I have heard nothing but great things about the BIC H100 sub btw. It is under $300.

The room is going to be acoustically treated and tuned. The Pioneer comes with a mic and I have access to a high end Berhinger EQ and Crown Mic if need be. I will definitely take your advice and check out the other sub-forum...

We are doing this in Akron, Oh. Sooo I am going to go out to Youngstown and get a pair of the SCS-01's (since they let you try them for 45 days), Also BIC is actually on the way to Youngstown, I will see if I can't get them to do the same with the HT-75's. I will let you know if BIC stands behind their product like the competition does.

Now, if I talk him out of the theater seating with rumble.... That would free up a ton of cash

• Gotcha on the receiver. How many sources are you going to be using with this receiver?
• Although I haven't heard it, I'm sure the BIC sub is a fine unit -- however, if he's going for the visceral impact (and I'm assuming the answer is yes since he's going with the rumble seating), I think he'll want a bigger sub whether it's from BIC or someone else.
• I'm glad he's looking into treating the room --- that's a huge part of the overall system in my opinion.

I probably should have said this in my original post, but my office has the projector you're using. It gives a great picture. I haven't tried watching an HD/Blu Ray DVD on it yet, but HDTV (such as it is) looks prety good to me.

Also, I've listened to the little sub at AV123. It's surprising good for only $200. It's one of those where you could try one, see how it works and buy a second as funds permit to get some more output. Since I haven't heard the BIC unit, I couldn't tell you which one I'd prefer.

JCD

[SteveB]

Since you've already looked at Hsu subs did you look at the speaker packages they offer now? Their new bookshelf speakers are getting excellent reviews. This is the lower end ($999.00) set they are offering :
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/enthusiast1.html

I didn't do the math to see pricing on all of the other sets suggested above but this seems to be real good bang for the buck.

[jinjuku]

JCD wrote:

• Gotcha on the receiver. How many sources are you going to be using with this receiver?
• Although I haven't heard it, I'm sure the BIC sub is a fine unit -- however, if he's going for the visceral impact (and I'm assuming the answer is yes since he's going with the rumble seating), I think he'll want a bigger sub whether it's from BIC or someone else.
• I'm glad he's looking into treating the room --- that's a huge part of the overall system in my opinion.

I probably should have said this in my original post, but my office has the projector you're using. It gives a great picture. I haven't tried watching an HD/Blu Ray DVD on it yet, but HDTV (such as it is) looks prety good to me.

Also, I've listened to the little sub at AV123. It's surprising good for only $200. It's one of those where you could try one, see how it works and buy a second as funds permit to get some more output. Since I haven't heard the BIC unit, I couldn't tell you which one I'd prefer.

JCD

There are two HDMI sources right now: PS3 for Blu-Ray and an HTPC with HDMI via a Radeon card (Fanless 1650). Thing is quiet I was on Audioholics and found that there will be review of the BIC H100 in the next week or so. For the price these are at, we could pick up two of them. They are going to also review the budget sub from AV123.

Speaking of possible dual subs, how do you hook a 2nd sub up?

Thanks for the insight on the HD70. Sounds like a terrific projector. I have also decided to go with Screen GOO instead of a $600-700 fixed screen. More money for speakers.

The H100 is a good budget sub, there is not doubt about that. But even 2 of them will not give you much our any output under 25hz. I had this sub for about 6 months and for the price you can not go wrong. I have since gone to another sub that gives strong output in to the upper teens and what a difference that makes in movie watching. If it were me I would spend the $550 that the two would cost and get one better sub in that price range. But if the room is huge, you may be better off with 2 lower end subs.

Both AV123 and Ascend make very good speakers, you can’t go wrong with either of those choices. I have X-Series speakers and they do a great job with movies and music. Unfortunately I have not heard the Ascends.