question about setup

[Cheecho]

okay i just finished doing my car audio system and now want to put an audio system in my room.... ive been reading about receivers and home theater speakers for about 2 weeks.... now im kind of leaning towards an HK receiver ank some polk audio speakers.... not sure on sub woofer at all yet....
but the thing is i dont know what model to chose for the speakers... i want to get a left and right bookshelf speaker center speaker rear surround speakers, and a sub..... the thing is the reviews i have read seem to be biased and my budget for the whole project is around $2000.... so if any one can give advice on speaker models it would be aprecieated .... o and one more thing i know its not for this forum but if any one could give some info on some receivers as well because im not sure about the HK.... sorry if i confused any 1

[JCD]

First of all, welcome to the forum. I hope you stick around for a while and let us know how your journey turns out!

As to your questions.. I don't have one for you. Saying what speakers are best is a little like saying which color is best. Some are gonna like red, some blue, some purple, some etc etc..

This is kind of my way of saying that if it were me, I'd actually go out and audition the speakers. I've even written up something that you may find helpful. Even more unhelpful is I've actually not heard Polk's in some time, so I can't even give you what my preferences would be in the Polk line.

Now, this is not to say that Polk speakers aren't good -- they are -- and that reading magazine reviews isn't a good start -- it is, but I'd recommend actually listening to them before buying. $2k is a lot of money (at least to me), so I'd want to be sure that I did a little investigation.

Now, as far as the receiver goes, my personal opinion (not shared by everyone) is that the audio differences between similarly priced receivers is negligible. I'd pick the receiver that has the features you're looking for, the remote you like, etc. I've had bad luck with HK in the past, which I'm sure is more a coincidence than anything, so I shy away from them now. If I were to go out and buy a new receiver, I might be tempted by some of the refurbed units that are available. Accessoriesforless sells Marantz receivers that are slightly older models, or refurbished at significant discounts. You can get refurbed Denon products here. Ecost is another place you can get refurbed Denon units. I'm sure there are other stores out there that offer the same kind of deals for HK, Yamaha, etc.

I'm sure I was little help..I just hope I didn't make you even more confused.

JCD

[supervsl]

If you are looking for bookshelf speakers definetly look at the SVS site. Can't demo them locally, but they always get good reviews.

[Otto]

Hey Cheecho,

I've heard good things about the HK receivers, but never owned one. FWIW, I'm totally done with Sony, so I always recommend against that.

I'd also check out the SVS speakers, and probably pass on the Polks. I'd also suggest Paradigm, B&W 600 series, Magnepan MMGs (if you have the space) and PSB. There are lots more out there. Go out and listen, and don't forget to take your favorite music. The speaker buying link that JCD pointed you to has lots of good ideas on how to audition speakers, so check that out.

Don't get in a rush and spend some time to find something you like. Have fun and good luck.

[salvasol]

Cheecho wrote:

okay i just finished doing my car audio system and now want to put an audio system in my room....

Welcome to the Club !!!!

I agree with JCD ... if you can, go to the store and try the speakers they have, some will also recommend you to get some from the stores that let you try them at home and return them if you don't like it ....

Everybody is different, shop around, there's a lot of receivers, speakers, subs, etc. to choose from; in my case a have an old model Sony Receiver (STR DE895, is a 7.1 110W per channel) and I'm happy with that, my speakers are Infinity TSS750 (5 + sub) and I just got another sub (Velodyne VRP 1000) ....

With $2,000.00 you have a lot of choices ..... just look around until you find what you like

It will be a good idea to give information about your room (lay out, measures, will you use this to watch movies only, etc.) ... that will help everybody to give you some suggestions

[Cheecho]

wow this is a great community.... bunch of helpful answers.... and the thing is i went to circuit city today and they had none of the demo speakers on..... gahhhhh.... anyways i was thinking about getting a denon receiver as well but dunno how ill get to listen to them...... and as for the Marantz receivers i've never heard of the brand .... o and ill take pics of my room so you guys can get an idea of they layout... and the system is mainly for music...im going to hook the sound card of my pc up to one of inputs of the receiver but i need surround sound for the xbox 360... and occasional movies.... and if some one can guide me how much should i spend on the reciever if this is all im looking for??? cant wait to start my system

[Otto]

Hey Cheecho,

Welcome to the Shack; there are a lot of helpful people around here!

Circuit City isn't a great place to audition speakers. They usually have a bunch of loud stuff on, things are haphazardly located, and the sales drones are just that: drones ( all right, to be fair, I'm sure there are some good drones out there on occasion ). But see how you went in and you can't even check out something you want to purchase. A big step up from there is Best Buy's Magnolia Hi-Fi/HT centers. They're not the best, but they have a bigger selection of nicer stuff. You can go in there and start to get a feel for what's out there. IIRC, they have Yamaha, Denon and Pioneer receivers ( and perhaps others ). For speakers, they have Martin Logan, Vienna Acoustics, Mirage, Klipsch, Definitive Technology and probably others. If you check out those speakers ( even outside of your budget ), you will get a flavor for what the range in speaker sounds/styles can be -- that group includes electrostatics, direct radiating, bipolar and horns: a wide variety in speaker technologies and philosophies. Some like Brand A and some like Brand B; it's all up to the individual taste.

As far as receiver price, there is a pretty big range out there. If I were going to buy a receiver today, I would really look at the HK 635 at about $600. I've heard good things about the power section ( amplifier ) of the HK, though I've never owned one. I would also consider Denon and Marantz in that price range ( $500-$600 ). I've had a Denon and it treated me well power-wise, as well as feature-wise.
I would probably steer away from Yamaha, as they only allow a fixed crossover point ( can't recall if it's 80 or 90 Hz ), and that further implies that that crossover point is applied to all channels in the system ( i.e., fronts, center, rears are all crossed over at the same frequency, and you can't change it ). With today's super-flexible receivers and processors, that fact alone is enough to make me not even consider Yamaha, regardless of the rest of the package. Oh, be sure that whatever receiver you buy has preamp outputs so that you can add on a power amp in the future if you need to.

If you're going for mainly music and occasional movies and Xbox, I might consider starting with a 2.0 or 2.1 system. That is, forget about the center and surrounds for now. That will allow you to get into a much better main speaker, and that's your critical point for music listening. Depending on your movie requirements, you may also be able to get away without a center channel at all -- if you are able to control where you sit ( i.e., in the center "sweet spot" position ), you can do a "phantom center" mode where all center channel information is pushed to your mains. If you ( or others ) will regularly be out of the center spot, it would be better to have a center channel, and one that matches your mains. I've also found that, if you're not terribly critical about movie listening, it's easy to "save a little" on rears.

Anyway, back to the original point -- if you're mainly interested in music, go with two mains for now, perhaps with a sub ( depending on the mains -- how badly they need it ).

Here are some links:

SVS SCS-01 speakers (<$500/pr):
http://www.svsound.com/products-spks-scs01.cfm

Vandersteen 2Ce Signature ($1500/pr):
http://www.vandersteen.com/pages/2Celit2.html

Magnepan MMG speaker ($550/pr):
http://www.magnepan.com/model_MMG

B&W 603 speaker (~$1,000/pr)
http://www.bwspeakers.com/index.cfm/...l%20DM603%20S3

Outlaw Audio RR2150 Receiver (stereo only, but nice, $650):
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/rr2150.html

If I were going to buy a sub today, I would probably just do an SVS. They just have a great following and such well-respected customer service. All the subs I've ever seen in CC/BB are not gonna cut it for me (I'm sure there are some good ones out there). I heard a Velodyne 18" that was nice, but it was very expensive. If you are so inclined and have the time, energy and patience, I would recommend a DIY sub. There are many around here that will blow away most commercial subs, and for a fraction of the cost.

Oh, you asked if you need anything else. Do you already have a source like a CD or DVD player?

I also noted that you are going to hook up your PC to your system. Will you be using a digital connection? If not, you'll want to consider it, but it can wait for a while. If you're handy with a PC, it won't be difficult.

That's it for now!

[supervsl]

I would probably steer away from Yamaha, as they only allow a fixed crossover point ( can't recall if it's 80 or 90 Hz ), and that further implies that that crossover point is applied to all channels in the system ( i.e., fronts, center, rears are all crossed over at the same frequency, and you can't change it ).

The fixed crossover point applies only to lower end Yamaha recievers, and it is 90 Hz. The majority of Yamaha recievers do have an variable crossover point, however, it is global and affects all channels.
Even as a Yamaha proponent I would definetly recommend looking into all options as variable crossover for each speaker channel is an attractive plus.

Oh, be sure that whatever receiver you buy has preamp outputs so that you can add on a power amp in the future if you need to.

Unquestionably a critical feature!!!

[Cheecho]

ahhh thanks you made a good point about just getting the two main speakers and the sub for now if i am mainly interested in music... and the way im hooking up the sound from the pc to the receiver is with this http://www.xitel.com/USA/prod_hflpc.htm.... o and i need bookshelf speakers because of the lack of space so i dont think i can get those floor speakers.... so im thinking of going with the svs bookshelf speakers what would u recommend the size sub i get for the room the 12".... and im thinking about going with a refurbished maratz.....or denon.... im prolly gonna check out sound quest today and hear some of the setups they have?

[Otto]

Hi again,

I had a look at the xitel product. Looks like it's an external USB DAC that will then send an 2-ch analog signal to your receiver. Not a bad solution. The only concerns I'd have are 1) is the DAC in that thing better or worse than the DAC in your receiver? and 2) it doesn't appear to be able to support 5.1 digital output. #1 may only be of concern if you can hear a difference from your receiver's DAC and the xitel DAC. #2 may only be of concern if you wanted to take advantage of any surround stuff in movies and/or games from your PC.

If you haven't already bought the xitel thing, you can get an optical output PCI interface sound card on ebay for $10. I think there are also USB-based optical out external devices as well, but I've never played with one.

If you're just using the xitel for casual 2-ch listening, you will be 100% fine with it

Yeah, you may be able to buy B&Ws as singles, but I'm sure they'll sell you two of 'em. I believe the $1000 price is for the pair ($2k for a pair of 603s is too much; at that price, you're definitely up into the 700 series).

[Cheecho]

otto i need bookshelf speakers and it appeared to me that most of the speakers you posed were floor speakers.... and as for the sub i decided im going to go with the SVS one but im not sure on which model and size....

[supervsl]

I have been meaning to ask the question and this is perhaps not the correct place but I believe both Cheecho and I would benefit from the answer. What makes a DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) good or bad? I have always found that digital source material sounds better when it is left digital for as long as possible. Hence I always leave everything digital and let the recievers DAC handle the data. Why would an outboard DAC be better?

[Otto]

supervsl wrote:

I have been meaning to ask the question and this is perhaps not the correct place but I believe both Cheecho and I would benefit from the answer. What makes a DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) good or bad? I have always found that digital source material sounds better when it is left digital for as long as possible. Hence I always leave everything digital and let the recievers DAC handle the data. Why would an outboard DAC be better?

Hi Nick,

Good question, and one I'd like to see discussed. You're right in not wanting to hijack Cheecho's thread ... Start up a new thread in either the 2-ch forum or the Receivers|Processors forum and let's see what happens!

[supervsl]

DONE!
http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...-question.html

[jackfish]

Front Channel Speakers - Infinity Primus P362 $452/pair
Center Channel Speaker - Infinity Primus PC350 $220
Surround Speakers - Infinity Primus P162 $220/pair
Subwoofer - Infinity PS212 $370
Speaker Total - $1262 or $1110 from Crutchfield with free subwoofer offer
If you want all bookshelf speakers just get 4 P162s and drop the P362s.

DVD Universal Player - Oppo DV-970HD $150 or Oppo DV-981HD $230

Home Theater Receiver - Pioneer Elite VSX-81TXV $640

TOTAL - $1900 or $1980

Descriptions of the previous Infinity Primus line:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...s-10-2003.html
http://www.stereophile.com/budgetcom...s/605infinity/
http://www.stereophile.com/budgetcom...s/404infinity/
Bob Reina said of the Primus 150 "...it sounded like a $1000/pair speaker."

Oppo DV-970HD reviews:
http://www.oppodigital.com/dv970hd/dv970hd_review.html

Oppo DV-981HD reviews:
http://www.oppodigital.com/dv981hd/dv981hd_review.html

Some discussion on the Pioneer Elite VSX-81TXV:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=729858

[Otto]

Cheecho wrote:

otto i need bookshelf speakers and it appeared to me that most of the speakers you posed were floor speakers.... and as for the sub i decided im going to go with the SVS one but im not sure on which model and size....

Hey there,

I think the SVS sub will be a good one. As to floor standers, ooops! The SVS package is a bookshelf, and I like the look of them -- the D'Appolito array. I once heard a pair of Dunlavys that looked very similar (yeah, looks the same is different that sounds the same!) and they were astounding.

B&W has the 602, I don't think Vandersteen has anything, Martin Logan probably not, DT not much...

Check Outlaw, Paradigm, PSB, etc. I've not heard the Inifinitys that were recommended, but I've heard that they are a good bang for the buck! Lots out there!

[supervsl]

I use the Infinitys in my set up:

Receiver: Yamaha RX-V 650
Front: Infinity Primus 250
Center: Infinity Primus C25
Surround: Infinity Primus 150
Rear: Infinity Primus 140
Sub: (2) Infinity PS8

I love the speakers, but there is a noticible difference between the 250 and the 150, floorstanding vs. bookshelf, when demoed at full range. The only time I notice the difference is when I am listening to my turn table and don't want the reciever digitizing the signal for crossover/subwoofer use. If you don't plan on using the speakers in this fashion then I highly recommend them when paired with a subwoofer. Even with my very lame 8" subs they sound very good. I would avoid the Infinity subs, I have not been impressed with any of the PS series 8, 10 or 12 inch models. The sub is very vanilla when compared with other manufacturers. I think you are on the right track with the SVS sub.
The newer 162, 152, 142 models were just released and you can still find the older 160, 150, 140 series at serious discount if you look hard enough. The only difference is asthetic. That could free up your budget for a kick butt sub.
I would recommend splitting your budget 70/30, speakers/hardware. You will definetly get more for your money with speakers than with a reciever.

[Cheecho]

holy freak just got back from sound quest...... i heard some B&W 600 series bookshelf speakers and all i gotta say is WOW...... the only thing they were 225ea for the DM601 S3 and 300 ea for the DM602 S3.... now if i buy the pair for 600 that leaves me with 1400... if i get a nice denon refurbished thats about 500... down to 900 dollars.... and the sub that im going to prolly go with is about 600.... which leaves me with 300.... holy moly i feel a whole in my wallet....

[Cheecho]

ooo one more question is the deal for the B&W speakers good price cuz i dunno the MSRP on them thanks

[Otto]

Yeah, I think the price for the 602 is about 600/pr (MSRP). Where is Soundquest? El Paso? If so, I bought a pair of 602s there many, many years ago.

You might want to check audiogon.com for used stuff. B&W 602s are pretty easy to come by, and you could save a lot of $$$. I've made a few purchases there myself, and have never been burned. Use Paypal and you should be safe...

Glad you liked them! Remember, before you bite on the B&W, take this weekend to shop around (or give it a few weeks). There are a lot of speakers out there...

[supervsl]

Holy vibrating woofers Batman, I think he liked those B&Ws