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Old 07-29-11, 12:34 PM   #1
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Dan
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Sick of small speakers!


I've been using 5 Behringer B2031P speakers for my HT for the last year or so. Great speakers that measure well and sound/image well to boot. No complaints about them in general, but I've noticed that I simply don't have dynamics like a theater does--they lack that "jump" factor. My assumption is that they are simply running out of steam when compared to larger speakers.

I'm a miser. No 2 ways about it. I hate to part with my money, but I have decided to do so. So, I'm looking for some cheap towers that measure as well or better than the Behringers.
Here's what I've found:
http://www.stereophile.com/content/i...r-measurements (only the new version)
http://www.audioxpress.com/reviews/media/rich3244.pdf (these are on sale at several places for $200(ish)/ea)

Any other suggestions?

Thanks,

Dan


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Old 07-29-11, 12:52 PM   #2
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Re: Sick of small speakers!


Hello,
The Infinity Primus's are fantastic values for the money. I greatly prefer them to the Behringers. If wanting more Power, the Active JBL Monitors that are available for 200 Dollars each are awesome and you would not have to worry about Amplifier or AVR Power with them.
Cheers,
JJ


HT
Speakers: Martin Logan Vantage (Mains), Martin Logan Stage (Center), Martin Logan Vista (Surrounds), Martin Logan Montages (Surrounds) Martin Logan Descent i (Subwoofer) Martin Logan Depth (Subwoofer)
Amplification: Aragon 8008bb, Parasound HCA-3500, Parasound HCA-2205 AT, Parasound HCA-1000a
AVR/SSP: Denon AVR-4520CI
Electronics: OPPO BDP-93, OPPO BDP-83 Pioneer BDP-05FD, Pioneer BDP-51FD, OPPO DV-980H, Panasonic DMP-BDT220
Gaming Consoles: Sony PS3 60 gb, Xbox 360 S (250 gb)
Display: Panasonic TC-P60GT50, Sony KDL-55EX500, Sony KD-34XBR910

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Old 07-29-11, 01:15 PM   #3
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Re: Sick of small speakers!


That may be the JBL I'm currently using for my center speaker. Most pleased with it! Sounds clearer than the Behringer and has measurably flatter/smoother response and lower diffraction. I believe it has a baffle step issue around 600Hz, but nothing really to worry about.


To go with my 3600 I bought an HK3490 to power the front mains, and I'll leave the rears powered by the 3600.
A guy that goes by "Tank, Tank" posted these on the 3490:




Not as much detail as I'd like to see, but I think it should do the trick to power some speakers and take a load of the other receiver.

I just ordered 2 Primus 363 and 2 Classia 336. Couldn't wait.

They just looked like they'll do the trick with more dynamics than the Behringers d/t more drivers.
Now the question is, "should I go for 7.1?"

Thanks Jack!

Dan


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Old 07-29-11, 02:48 PM   #4
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Re: Sick of small speakers!


Dan,
Congrats amigo. You got yourself some excellent Speakers that will provide you with years of Sonic Bliss.
I really look forward to reading your findings.
Cheers,
JJ


HT
Speakers: Martin Logan Vantage (Mains), Martin Logan Stage (Center), Martin Logan Vista (Surrounds), Martin Logan Montages (Surrounds) Martin Logan Descent i (Subwoofer) Martin Logan Depth (Subwoofer)
Amplification: Aragon 8008bb, Parasound HCA-3500, Parasound HCA-2205 AT, Parasound HCA-1000a
AVR/SSP: Denon AVR-4520CI
Electronics: OPPO BDP-93, OPPO BDP-83 Pioneer BDP-05FD, Pioneer BDP-51FD, OPPO DV-980H, Panasonic DMP-BDT220
Gaming Consoles: Sony PS3 60 gb, Xbox 360 S (250 gb)
Display: Panasonic TC-P60GT50, Sony KDL-55EX500, Sony KD-34XBR910

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Old 07-29-11, 02:55 PM   #5
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Re: Sick of small speakers!


If you cross your mains at 80hz, what advantage will foor speakers give? Unless I guess you run the fronts full range.

These are more efficient, so they will play louder using the same AVR. http://www.infinitysystems.com/home/...USA&Country=US

Not sure what the "jump" factor is, but I've only seen horn tweets used in theaters, and horns create a kind of in your face sparkle sound. Klipsch delivers that, but the good ones are not cheap. My main complaint about them is, I like that sound for HT, but not for music, so for my taste, they are only useful for theater. If that is what your after, you might like them. They are a little more efficient then the Infinity's. Something like this should move you, but cost more. http://www.klipsch.com/rf-62-ii-floorstanding-speaker

These seem to be a little horn loaded. http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-NS-333-...968970&sr=1-31

Not sure you could find a store that would have all of them to demo. Fry's maybe...


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Old 07-29-11, 04:24 PM   #6
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Re: Sick of small speakers!


Quote:
Generic wrote: View Post
If you cross your mains at 80hz, what advantage will foor speakers give? Unless I guess you run the fronts full range.

These are more efficient, so they will play louder using the same AVR. http://www.infinitysystems.com/home/...USA&Country=US

Not sure what the "jump" factor is, but I've only seen horn tweets used in theaters, and horns create a kind of in your face sparkle sound. Klipsch delivers that, but the good ones are not cheap. My main complaint about them is, I like that sound for HT, but not for music, so for my taste, they are only useful for theater. If that is what your after, you might like them. They are a little more efficient then the Infinity's. Something like this should move you, but cost more. http://www.klipsch.com/rf-62-ii-floorstanding-speaker

These seem to be a little horn loaded. http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-NS-333-...968970&sr=1-31

Not sure you could find a store that would have all of them to demo. Fry's maybe...
Hello,
If your AVR has a Pure Direct Mode where the Crossover and all other Digital Processes are taken out of the loop, having Speakers that can play below 80hz makes a big difference. Moreover, while the Crossover is set at 80hz, it is not like a brick wall. Some of the Frequencies below 80hz will be reproduced.

Also, 80hz is fairly low when you think about it. With most little Satellite Speakers only capable of playback down to 150hz, 80hz is lower than you might presume. Also, should you not like the way your HT sounds when all speakers are crossed over to 80hz, having Speakers capable of going lower gives you added flexibility.
Cheers,
JJ


HT
Speakers: Martin Logan Vantage (Mains), Martin Logan Stage (Center), Martin Logan Vista (Surrounds), Martin Logan Montages (Surrounds) Martin Logan Descent i (Subwoofer) Martin Logan Depth (Subwoofer)
Amplification: Aragon 8008bb, Parasound HCA-3500, Parasound HCA-2205 AT, Parasound HCA-1000a
AVR/SSP: Denon AVR-4520CI
Electronics: OPPO BDP-93, OPPO BDP-83 Pioneer BDP-05FD, Pioneer BDP-51FD, OPPO DV-980H, Panasonic DMP-BDT220
Gaming Consoles: Sony PS3 60 gb, Xbox 360 S (250 gb)
Display: Panasonic TC-P60GT50, Sony KDL-55EX500, Sony KD-34XBR910

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Old 07-29-11, 04:26 PM   #7
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Re: Sick of small speakers!


Thanks Jack! I hope you are correct. I'll do my usual measurements and see how they compare.

Generic, by jump factor, I mean dynamics. The B2031P always seemed to lack dynamics when compared to larger speakers and I have no decent explanation why. It could just be my own visual bias e.g. small=small. Or it could be cone surface area or thermal capacity. It could be partly that large speakers are operating a little more like a line source... I just can't say, but it has always seemed that way to me. Don't get me wrong, I love the B2031P, they are excellent at their price point and good at any price point. I just want to see if bigger does equal a bigger sound. I used to own the predecessor Klipsch--the KG5.5, those could be painful on some material, but they definitely sounded big. Hopefully the newer version is more tamed.

The measurements on the speakers I bought look more like what I'm after.

Dan


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Old 07-29-11, 04:28 PM   #8
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Re: Sick of small speakers!


Having woofers near the floor also cooperates better with the boundary.

Dan


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Old 07-29-11, 08:55 PM   #9
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Re: Sick of small speakers!


Quote:
Jungle Jack wrote: View Post
Hello,
If your AVR has a Pure Direct Mode where the Crossover and all other Digital Processes are taken out of the loop, having Speakers that can play below 80hz makes a big difference. Moreover, while the Crossover is set at 80hz, it is not like a brick wall. Some of the Frequencies below 80hz will be reproduced.

Also, 80hz is fairly low when you think about it. With most little Satellite Speakers only capable of playback down to 150hz, 80hz is lower than you might presume. Also, should you not like the way your HT sounds when all speakers are crossed over to 80hz, having Speakers capable of going lower gives you added flexibility.
Cheers,
JJ
I thought the Behringer B2031P's were suppose to be pretty flat till 55hz, so even with roll-offs included starting at 80hz, they should be able to do the trick.

They might be failing off axis if the room is too big, but I thought they had decent off axis measurements.

Not trying to dispute the OP, not liking them, but from some of the reviews I've read, I am a little surprised.


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Old 07-29-11, 08:57 PM   #10
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Re: Sick of small speakers!


Dont blame you Dan. The Infinity 362s produced better spl than the wall-mounted 162s that replaced them in my theater.

Youd really think that in a theater with decent dual subs spl performance on just the front left and right channels wouldnt be real noticeable, but it really is. Someday I might have a room big enough, and a budget flexible enough, to go back to towers on as many channels as possible, but until then Ill just have to settle for bookshelves...


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