Breaking in a speaker

[tonyvdb]

I have been seeing several people posting lately on this forum and others stating that breaking in a speaker is a "wives tail" or a "myth". I personally think thats not true. I have noticed a big difference once both my Mission 765s and my ADS MS3 sub had about 3 months of use time on them.

What do others think?

[Mike P.]

"Breaking in" works with sub drivers. It loosens the suspension. I used test tones on my Atlas 15's when they were new. I noticed a big difference in output. For my current build of subs I'll use a spl meter before and after just to see what the "measured " results are.

[Bob_99]

While I have no measureable or scientific proof, my old Sansuis and later my Techniques seem to really improve with age. I can't tell with my current speakers yet because I'm always messing with the room treatment or position of the speakers. They sound very good but I'm still trying to squeeze everything I can from them.


Bob

[terry j]

I wonder if the people who call it a myth don't usually do it in the context of 'needing' special cd's etc to do it with?? I would certainly diss that idea, just use music and enjoy the run in process, not spend money on 'special' tones etc.

[Sonnie]

I can't remember who and when, but I do remember a manufacturer telling me that their speakers did not need to be broken in, and it wasn't because they were already broken it.


Maybe I'm imagining things, but the JBL E90's I had seemed extremely harsh and bright when I first listened to my David Gilmour in Concert DVD. After about 40-50 hours of play time and with that same DVD, they did not seem harsh or bright at all... as if they had mellowed out. This is the first time I have noticed such a change in the sound of speakers.

The same thing has happened with my Boston Acoustics. They sounded somewhat tinny and on the bright side when I first hooked them up and played the Gilmour DVD and my Eagles HD-DVD. I don't think I've even mentioned this in my BA thread yet, in hopes it was temporary or simply me having a bad listening night. To be truthful, I was disappointed after reading so many good things about them. I am hoping that they simply needed some break-in time as well. It won't be much longer before I give those two DVDs a second run and I should be able to confirm if they simply needed breaking in. They've had a good 100 hours on them via various movies since I first listened.

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

I think it’s more an issue of your ears breaking into the speakers. Anytime I change out speakers, the new ones seen a bit off” at first, because I’m not used to them, but the longer I listen to them the better they sound.

That said, I read in Stereo Review a long time ago the only kind of break-in any speakers need can be accomplished by playing FM-radio between-station noise overnight at a low level. That’s probably impossible with today’s digital tuners, so pink noise will work.

Regards,
Wayne

[Bob_99]

I also wonder if the change in the type of materials used to build speakers makes a difference?
Assuming that there may be a change over time.

Bob

[MatrixDweller]

When I first took my Klipsch speakers out of the box and hooked them up I thought they sounded weird at first. They were bright and the bass was just lacking. I knew about break in so I didn't box them back up. I left the house for work and let "The Incredibles" loop for a good 8 hours on a fairly loud volume. When I came back the speakers sounded much more refined, not bright and the bass was satisfying.

But then my car stereo and computer speakers started sounding better. I guess must have been because the HT speakers resonated the sub sonic ethereal gateway. This psychoacoustic mystery has got me psycho.

Speakers are often stored for extended periods in colder environments than a typical home.
This can cause suspension materials to become stiffer.
Once the speaker warms up to the ambient temp of a home environment, the sound will be close to the factory reference.

I guess it's possible that over time, the suspensions and diaphragms might begin to break down slightly, thus changing the sound, but this would hardly be a desirable effect.
It's roughly analogous to breaking-in new tires by driving 1000 miles on bad roads in order to "improve" the performance of the tires. Absurd.

[Bob_99]

begin to break down slightly

This is a possibility but I agree that it would hardly be a desirable effect. On the other hand, I believe that, again if the effect is real, the material is not breaking down but merely becoming somewhat more flexible. Which brings me to my previous post that perhaps newer materials don't exhibit that type of behavior.

Bob

The process of extruding materials into component shapes can result in "stored energy" that will slowly relax to a point of equilibrium as the components are flexed or stressed.
Ported woofers are usually not stressed at their low frequency resonance very much since the port damps cone movement at this frequency. The time to do this would be in free air, prior to assembly.

[Ayreonaut]

I've never seen a documented change in the frequency response of a speaker "breaking in." If you know of a documented case, point me to it. For now, I don't believe in it.

[tonyvdb]

Ayreonaut wrote:

If you know of a documented case, point me to it.

I just looked at my A/D/S MS3 sub's instructions and it clearly states "Pleas allow approximately 36 hrs of use to break in the speaker and its components in order to enjoy the full potential of your ADS sub" I don't know why I never read that before, so does that qualify as a documented case?

[Ayreonaut]

I'd like to see a comparison of measured results before and after "break in."

[Kal Rubinson]

tonyvdb wrote:

I just looked at my A/D/S MS3 sub's instructions and it clearly states "Pleas allow approximately 36 hrs of use to break in the speaker and its components in order to enjoy the full potential of your ADS sub" I don't know why I never read that before, so does that qualify as a documented case?

Nope. It is a document, I grant that. However, it is simply asserted and not proven to have any effect.

Kal

[thewire]

I will do a simple test. These are the results with my 12" THX sub after about 20 hours break in time.

Movie: War Of The Worlds (with Tom Cruise) DTS

Auto-setup with mic (Crossover @ 50hz)
Master volume is at 0
Volume on the sub is set to THX
No digital spl meter corrections



Sub only
Timestamp 15:52 in DTS
87 @ LP

With speakers and sub

Timestamp 15:52 in DTS (lightning)
96 @ LP

Timestamp 31:04 in DTS (truck in the air)
103 @ LP

Timestamp 40:36 in DTS (basement with crash)
103@LP

Timestamp 1:00:01 in DTS (tripod horn at the fairy)
99@LP



With speakers and sub

Timestamp 15:52 in DTS (lightning)
97 @ LP

Timestamp 31:04 in DTS (truck in the air)
104 @ LP

-

I ran the auto-setup again (it has had at least the recommended 50 hours now) and for the very first time I didn't get a "turn up your subs volume" warning on the OSD. There is your proof. For kicks I ran the SPL meter test again anyway. The results are sightly louder but of a much better quality. Keep in mind this an auto-setup with a microphone so it changed.


results

Auto-setup with mic (Crossover @ 50hz)
Master volume is at 0
Unknown watts (1 less sub and amp than before sorry)
Volume on the sub is set to Variable and set to max (trying this before did not correct the error message to turn up the volume)
No digital spl meter corrections

Sub only
Timestamp 15:52 in DTS
92 @ LP

Timestamp 31:04 in DTS (truck in the air)
91 @ LP

Timestamp 40:36 in DTS (basement with crash)
92@LP

Timestamp 1:00:01 in DTS (tripod horn at the fairy)
91@LP



With speakers and sub

Timestamp 15:52 in DTS (lightning)
101 @ LP

Timestamp 31:04 in DTS (truck in the air)
107 @ LP

Timestamp 31:04 in DTS (truck in the air) Volume at +3
109 @ LP

Timestamp 31:04 in DTS (truck in the air) Volume at +6
110 @ LP

It still sounds great loud!

[Otto]

Well, steven, I'm not sure I'd call that "proof." You're talking about a 5 dB increase? If there were that kind of change in a sub over 50 hours of playing, then there would be no question that there's a change. We're talking about some rather subtle differences here -- not +5 dB. I think that the variance in the point of the movie, the position of the SPL meter and so on could have contributed to this big swing.

A better measure would be that of an REW sweep. However, even that has its limitations. Again, mic placement, among other things, could make it appear as having large differences.

I'm sure it sounds great though!

[thewire]

This about a subtle difference in frequency response?

Yep. That's why there are so many questions surrounding it. As far as I know, "break in" has never been properly proven.

I am confused wouldn't the shape of the speaker or speaker box have to change?

Not necessarily. I could see something like the stiffness of the motor or surround causing an audible change in a driver. I'm not saying I've actually heard such a change, but just that's it's plausible.

[Bob_99]

I'd like to see a comparison of measured results before and after "break in."

I think that with older speakers, this would not be possible because REW and computers were not available at the time. Also, would someone with a new setup take the time to stop and measure right out of the box? That might be true today with more knowledge of acoustics and especially with people moving onto an upgrade. Next, how much time does one give to 'break in'? And lastly, would new speakers built from new materials exhibit that same amount of change as what I thought I experienced with my older speaker?

Again, I'm not saying that this effect is a fact. The idea of just getting use to a speaker makes sense but this is interesting and would be more than interesting if it really were something measurable. Maybe this is where psychoacoustics comes into play.

Bob

A simple way to isolate changes in the speaker would be to wire them out of phase, place them face to face, and play pink noise through them.
The differences between the speakers will manifest as audible tones; if the speakers are identical, complete cancellation (no audible output) should occur.
If the speakers change during break-in, the tone quality of the difference output will change both audibly and measurably.

[Otto]

snickelfritz wrote:

if the speakers are identical, complete cancellation (no audible output) should occur.

In theory, that's generally correct.

If the speakers change during break-in, the tone quality of the difference output will change both audibly and measurably.

What if they change in exactly the same way? I think they'd continue to perfectly cancel each other.

They won't be identical, so there will be audible tones.
They won't change at the same rate or at precisely the same frequencies either, so changes, if they occur, will be audible as gradual modulation of the difference tones.

This method is also a good way to demonstrate the difference, or lack thereof, between cables.

[Sonnie]

Here's some really interesting info that might be worth noting. I made it a sticky thread.

[Bob_99]

Thanks for the link Sonnie.

That was very interesting information.

Bob

[joetama]

Good link, good info...


I'm starting to like this forum a lot...