7.1 Floorstander System - any specific tips/hints for best set-up???

Hi guys,

Have just received my last pair of Monitor Audio Bronze Reference BR5's, which I'm now using as a 7 channel (with the Monitor Audio BR-LCR Centre) system.

Thing is, I've never had a complete 'floor-standing' speaker set-up before, so been in 'virgin territory' so to speak, are there any hints/tips that I should be aware of that wouldn't normally apply to book-shelf/stand-mount speakers? Or are things more-or-less the same?

Any ideas would be gratefully appreciated

With my thanks in advance,

DC

[nova]

Hmmm,... not from me. I am jealous though. Wish I had 7 floor standers. Fact is I kinda wish I had seven speakers for my main HT system,... maybe one day i'll get the other two.

I'm sure someone will come along soon with some tips for you.

nova wrote:

Hmmm,... not from me. I am jealous though. Wish I had 7 floor standers. Fact is I kinda wish I had seven speakers for my main HT system,... maybe one day i'll get the other two.

Hi Nova,



But no need to be too envious; I'd say my set-up is quite modest (I know of peeps with much higher-end stuff than me), but hey, IMHO it's always nice to have something to aim for; I've had 6.1 and 7.1 for around 6 years now, and I wouldn't be without my back 2 anymore. Really can add a worthwhile difference, more related to soundstaging etc. But yeah, having 6 floors with a dedicated centre is something I've been looking forward to for some time...

nova wrote:

I'm sure someone will come along soon with some tips for you.

Hope so; I'm just applying the basics of normal 'bookshelf' positioning, bass-management etc - it seems that there's probably not too many HT owners (at least on the forums) who have all floors as I've also asked this on a AV forum here in England and zero replies as well

Anyway, my thanks again mate

Best wishes,

DC

[Sonnie]

I know SteveCallas just got towers all around... Towers All Over ... I'll see if he can chime in.

[SteveCallas]

I can offer a few tips. To maintain solid center imaging and good soundstage from the mains, try to keep the center floorstander behind them depth wise. Try to keep it at least 1' behind the mains if you can manage. For the side surrounds, you'll probably want some way to elevate the floorstanders, as typical tweeter height on a tower is ~36-40", and it should be ~1-2' higher than ear level for side surrounds. For rears, though it may look silly, you'll want even more elevation, 2-3' above ear level. You do this because you don't want the source of surround information to be too locatable, you want more of a diffuse sound. Your preferences may very, but I also find I like my side surrounds to be parallel to my seat and aimed slightly behind me.

Oh, one more thing. If your towers are rear ported, give the surrounds a bit of breathing room behind the speaker - don't put it flush against a wall. Whatever the diameter of the port, give it at least that much clearance from the nearest wall.

Sonnie wrote:

I know SteveCallas just got towers all around... Towers All Over ... I'll see if he can chime in.

Sonnie,

Really appreciated....

DC

SteveCallas wrote:

I can offer a few tips.......For the side surrounds, you'll probably want some way to elevate the floorstanders, as typical tweeter height on a tower is ~36-40", and it should be ~1-2' higher than ear level for side surrounds.

Hi Steve,

Very grateful for the tips. I had thought about the likelihood that raising the side and rears might be useful, but wondered how the I'd do it. What do you use for 'elevation' for the sides/rears? Would you recommend something such as a small(ish) wooden plinth, or would something much more solid (small paving slabs) be better?

SteveCallas wrote:

.....your preferences may very, but I also find I like my side surrounds to be parallel to my seat and aimed slightly behind me

Will try this, sounds interesting. I have mine slightly behind me just aimed a little toward the 'sweet spot' at the mo...

SteveCallas wrote:

Oh, one more thing. If your towers are rear ported, give the surrounds a bit of breathing room behind the speaker - don't put it flush against a wall. Whatever the diameter of the port, give it at least that much clearance from the nearest wall.

Great stuff; really appreciate the advice

All the very best,

DC

[SteveCallas]

I had thought about the likelihood that raising the side and rears might be useful, but wondered how the I'd do it. What do you use for 'elevation' for the sides/rears? Would you recommend something such as a small(ish) wooden plinth, or would something much more solid (small paving slabs) be better?

In that thread of mine, you'll see that I put one on top of an end table and another mounted on a DIY speaker stand. Had I known I'd be using that stand for a tower inseatd of a bookshelf at the time I made it, I would have made it thicker for aesthetics, but it's plenty sturdy enough as is. I don't know what the height of your towers is, but I doubt a few paving slabs would be enough to raise the tweeter height sufficiently.

SteveCallas wrote:

In that thread of mine, you'll see that I put one on top of an end table and another mounted on a DIY speaker stand. Had I known I'd be using that stand for a tower inseatd of a bookshelf at the time I made it, I would have made it thicker for aesthetics, but it's plenty sturdy enough as is.

Cheers Steve

Sounds like wooden pedestal(s)/plinth(s) would be more than suitable - as a bit of a DIY enthusiast myself, that suits me ; fortunately I have a good bit of pine lying around

SteveCallas wrote:

I don't know what the height of your towers is, but I doubt a few paving slabs would be enough to raise the tweeter height sufficiently.

I s'pose I'm in the (again) fortunate position that my Monitor-Audio BR5's have the tweeter only - approx - an inch from the very top of the cabinet; so I assume that they won't need raising too much (my ear height is more-or-less 3' and the tweeter a couple of inch short of 3')

Thanks again Steve for the input,

Regards,

DC

[tonyvdb]

For the front speakers your placement is good the way you have them now but for the surrounds you do not want the speakers to be directly firing at your main listening position. the whole point of surround sound is that the rear speakers "fill" the space with sound not direct the sound to your ears. Most people get this wrong and loose some of the surround imaging that is sent to the rears. This is why most HT installations use "bookshelf" sized speakers mounted just above head hight when standing and angled slightly down.

tonyvdb wrote:

For the front speakers your placement is good the way you have them now but for the surrounds you do not want the speakers to be directly firing at your main listening position. the whole point of surround sound is that the rear speakers "fill" the space with sound not direct the sound to your ears. Most people get this wrong and loose some of the surround imaging that is sent to the rears. This is why most HT installations use "bookshelf" sized speakers mounted just above head hight when standing and angled slightly down.

Hi Tony,

After plenty of experimenting with my previous and current speakers, I can see where you're coming from. Utilising the tips from Steve above, I'm in the process of building a couple of 6" plinths for my sides (have another idea to elevate my back rears) and am going to position them accordingly one finished. So I'm very optimistic that the extra height and 'new' placements should offer me the "optimum" listening experience with my new towers

All the very best,

DC

[Kal Rubinson]

tonyvdb wrote:

For the front speakers your placement is good the way you have them now but for the surrounds you do not want the speakers to be directly firing at your main listening position. the whole point of surround sound is that the rear speakers "fill" the space with sound not direct the sound to your ears. Most people get this wrong and loose some of the surround imaging that is sent to the rears. This is why most HT installations use "bookshelf" sized speakers mounted just above head hight when standing and angled slightly down.

I think this is changing. Originally, the amount of specificity in the surround channels was minimal, e.g., with DPL, and a diffused surround dispersion was suitable. However, with discrete surround, and especially with discrete multichannel music, the use of dipole/bipole/wallwash speakers in the surround surrenders that specificity. My experience, and interest, is in music (not HT) and aiming the surrounds at the listening position affords better imaging without losing any of the "fill."

I try to keep all speakers at ear level.

Kal

Kal Rubinson wrote:

I think this is changing. Originally, the amount of specificity in the surround channels was minimal, e.g., with DPL, and a diffused surround dispersion was suitable. However, with discrete surround, and especially with discrete multichannel music, the use of dipole/bipole/wallwash speakers in the surround surrenders that specificity. My experience, and interest, is in music (not HT) and aiming the surrounds at the listening position affords better imaging without losing any of the "fill."

Kal

Hi Kal,

Interesting point, & in retrospect, I should have mentioned in my leader post that my set-up is also for multi-channel music, which was a big factor in my decision to upgrade (not to mention the full range hi-def audio formats) to 6 channel towers whilst steering away from the more 'traditional' bi-poles or bookshelfs. Indeed my music sounds so much better now than it ever did and to be fair, movies are more involving too, although I feel that should improve much more with the suggested elavations...

That said, it will be interesting to see how my music compares when I've elavated the sides & rears...

Thanks again

DC

[Josuah]

I also switched from di/bi-poles to direct firing bookshelves for my surround speakers, and have them pointed at my head. I have an open room, so no reflections off side-firing speakers to contribute to the enveloping feel, direct firing sounds better for enveloping anyway in a 7.1 setup, to me at least. Plus, now when someone's voice or something moves into the rear channels, it doesn't sound like they magically moved into a different room.

Josuah wrote:

I also switched from di/bi-poles to direct firing bookshelves for my surround speakers, and have them pointed at my head. I have an open room, so no reflections off side-firing speakers to contribute to the enveloping feel, direct firing sounds better for enveloping anyway in a 7.1 setup, to me at least. Plus, now when someone's voice or something moves into the rear channels, it doesn't sound like they magically moved into a different room.

Hi Josuah,

I s'pose you could say it's like "swings and roundabouts" (don't know if that's a known adage in the U.S.)...but I do agree with you entirely - I had some Mission dipoles a couple of years ago and when I upgraded to bookshelf 'direct firers', I found certain FX did become slightly more localisable, but generally speaking, they offered a much more pleasing 'surround' experience for both music and movies.

And now with a 7.1 system, I can't recommend direct firers highly enough (not to mention using towers all round too)...I mean, some of the 7.1 tracks on PS3 games are incredible...

Anyway, for those following the thread with any interest, I should be getting my side 'plinths' finished today, and my rears 'mini-tables' finished in a day or two. If people are interested, I'll report back with my opinions when done

Best regards,

DC

[Blaser]

Hello!

I just have a question here. Why 7 towers? what is the benefit of having 7 fullrange speakers (if they are)?

What about room equalization then which is usually made for the most part through the sub(s)? What about phase issues as well?

Am I missing something?

blaser wrote:

Hello!

I just have a question here. Why 7 towers? what is the benefit of having 7 fullrange speakers (if they are)?

Hi Blaser,

Well, no I don't have 7 towers - 6 actually in a 7.1 system, and yes they are full range. The benefit (IMHO) is more related to multi-channel music; PS3 games and the newer 'full-range' 7.1 (or usually 5.1 at the present) HD audio formats. I appreciate that the issue(s) are not that 'simple', but in a general (and laymans) way of speaking, that's why I've opted for 6 floor-standers as opposed to bookshelfs (which I did have, up to this upgrade).

blaser wrote:

What about room equalization then which is usually made for the most part through the sub(s)?

This isn't something I'm too big on, although my receivers built in 'equalisation' method ('Audessey') does an acceptable enough job IMHO.

blaser wrote:

What about phase issues as well?

As far as I'm able to tell, this hasn't presented anything of a prob for me so far, but I confess that I haven't settled on 'concrete' positions for my towers yet, as I'm still 'experimenting' IYSWIM. Thus the motive for my leader post

blaser wrote:

Am I missing something?

I think Steve Callas has a better idea of this than I (there's a link above for "Towers All Over") as he's had this type of set-up much longer than myself. But in a nutshell, I do believe my overall listening experience is better now than with bookshelfs...but I'm willing to concede that it could be a little subjective...

Anyway, that's my take on it

All the very best,

DC

[SteveCallas]

I think blaser is thinking that you will be running all the towers full range, meaning as Large with no subwoofer. Hopefully that's not the case, as that very likely will present phase problems and create a poor FR. What I am doing and what I interpret you are as well is still using a subwoofer to handle redirected bass and the LFE channel, but just using towers for every speaker position instead of bookshleves for the better sensitivity, displacement, FR, power handling, and essentially an all around effortlessness of playback on even very demanding material.

[Blaser]

Yes Steve, you got my point. But from Daddy Cool's post, I am afraid this is what he is doing. Another question raises to my mind Steve though: What is the benefit of 6 or 7 tower speakers if you use only "the bookshelf" part of it??

Front towers are generally for those of us who sometimes listen to stereo music without subwoofers, otherwise again I cannot see any real benefit, but the disadvantage of being more expensive.

[SteveCallas]

Even if crossing over at 80hz, most bookshelf speakers just can't keep up in the 40-200hz range when things get demanding or you want to listen at spirited levels. An 80hz crossover still asks a speaker to play below 80hz, just at an ever decreasing level, and that can still be very taxing on a single 6.5" or so midwoofer, just as playing in the 100hz range at spirited volumes can be. If you have a monstrous subwoofer setup, like I know you do, then that 40-200hz range immediately becomes the weakest link with bookshlef speakers - I've experienced this myself. And that 80-200hz range is where the real "punch" is to bass from most instruments. So the towers give you more displacement, better sensitivity, flatter FR, and better power handling, again, all leading to a more all around effortless playback.

Now is this absolutely necessary? For surrounds, definitely not, but it's nice to have. For the front three speakers, I think towers are necessary if using a monster subwoofer system that you want to get the most out of.

[Blaser]

I definitely agree with you about the 80-200 Hz importance in bass punch, and therefore the importance of strong speakers in the front stage, but forthe surrounds it is just a bit difficult for me to be justifiable(or for my applications to be more precise).

As far as I am concerned, my front stage is about 2 *150W RMS towers (dual 8" bass drivers), and a (wide) center (120W RMS) that has dual 6" woofers (sealed), a 3" midrange and 1" tweeter. The fronts are flat to 25 Hz, but the center to about 60 Hz. And I am very happy with this configuration.

[SteveCallas]

Sounds good to me.

[Josuah]

Also, 80Hz isn't actually the best crossover point for speakers, despite being the default setting and the THX-whatever recommendation. Voices can easily drop below 80Hz, and for some people the sound is still localizable below 80Hz. My mains are crossed over at 50Hz. My surrounds at 90Hz because that's where they measured best, even though they have ports and specs that are supposed to let them hit 50Hz easily.

SteveCallas wrote:

I think blaser is thinking that you will be running all the towers full range, meaning as Large with no subwoofer. Hopefully that's not the case

Hi again Steve & Blaser,

Yes, you're right, that is NOT the case...

SteveCallas wrote:

.....what I interpret you are as well is still using a subwoofer to handle redirected bass and the LFE channel, but just using towers [...] for [...] essentially an all around effortlessness of playback on even very demanding material...

More-or-less spot on...

blaser wrote:

....But from Daddy Cool's post, I am afraid this is what he is doing.

Eeerrr I am? As I say above, I'm not; I still have a sub (as in my sig) and I've experimented with running the towers at full range, and with various cross-over settings. I'm still not 100% settled on any particular configuration yet as I'm still in the process of sorting out the 'elevation'...

blaser wrote:

....Front towers are generally for those of us who sometimes listen to stereo music without subwoofers...

IMHO such notions probably stem from the generally accepted 'norm' for HT applications; but with the advent of uncompressed/lossless HD audio formats/multi-channel music this, I believe, is slowly changing the way we think about speaker configuration - let's not forget that the SACD & DVD-A formats recommend using *ALL* full-range speakers (i.e. towers) for each channel.

Anyway, hope that clears up any misunderstanding from my previous postings?

Regards as always,

DC

SteveCallas wrote:

[...] running the towers full range [...] with no subwoofer [...] will present phase problems and create a poor FR...

Hi Steve,

I wanted to ask this seperately; having experimented a bit, I find that when my floor-standers ARE set at 'full range' with no LPF crossover, I get a (subjective?) all-round, fuller/beefier, 'sharper' and generally more satisfying soundstage, than when I try various crossovers.

I've not done any direct 'scientific' measuring (i.e. Room-EQ Wizard etc), but from what you suggest, this shouldn't be the case, right? Any idea why this would be, or am I fooling myself? Should I be looking for something in particular, as I feel I'm missing something?

Thanks again

All the very best,

DC