Home Theater Forum and Systems banner

The Official $3,000 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

152K views 287 replies 51 participants last post by  kingnoob 
#1 ·
The Official $3,000 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event




Introduction

IT IS HERE! We are in the midst of the Home Theater Shack $3,000 Speaker Evaluation event, as I write this. Six pairs of speakers are on the premises, and over the next two days, Feb. 21 and 22, we will hear a lot of great tunes on them. There will be lots to report.

This is not a shootout. Each speaker will be set up for its best sound in this room and evaluated on its own merits.

For now, this post (#1) will be used as the summary post and will be updated through the weekend and beyond. Check back often - we will tell you ih later posts when this summary has grown.


The Speakers

The criteria for the speakers used in this event was floorstanding speakers with an MSRP between $2500 ($2499) and $3500 per pair as delivered for the event. Any finish was acceptable. Speakers requiring external DSP or an active crossover did not qualify. Since the emphasis is on 2-channel music use, speakers made for that purpose were favored, although some may be perfectly acceptable for home theater use as well.

Sadly, some of the speakers selected via the readers' poll were not available because the manufacturers chose not to participate. We cannot read minds to know all their reasons, but can only conclude that it is their loss not being included. We go above and beyond the call of duty to ensure that each model evaluated gets the fairest treatment possible by three sets of experienced ears. We will not, however, shy from the truth or be edited by the suppliers, even if they are HTS sponsors. In the end, we are confident that this serves all concerned in the best way possible.

We deeply appreciate those who DID choose to participate, some on short notice to fill in at the last minute. We ended up with a great mix, including some noteworthy technology offerings: one RAAL tweeter model and one concentric mid-tweeter model. We were looking forward to hearing every one of them by the time the big event arrived.

Here are the speakers included in the event:

The Room

Cedar Creek Cinema/Two-Channel Room, Luverne, Alabama. The most recent change to the room is that the equipment cabinet which used to occupy most of the space below the cinema screen has been removed. We deemed that removing the cabinet would improve the soundstage and imaging. Total changes relative to the diagram below:
  • Front equipment rack removed.
  • Corner traps added in rear corners.
  • Additional side absorptive panels.
  • Front subwoofer cabinets turned toward front corner traps with 4-inch gap (cabinets at 45° angle relative to the room) with dissipation panels on their backs (toward room center)..
  • Cutouts in stage structure allowing Left and Right Mains to be on the main floor within one foot of the front wall.


The room is heavily treated. Some might think the amount of treatment is too much for two-channel speaker evaluation, but I think it is just right. More on this in a summary post below. The measured RT60 is 0,2 to 0.3 second.




The Evaluators

The evaluators for this event have proven their ability to work together to provide what some describe as some of the most in-depth and worthwhile loudspeaker reviews on the web. They are:
  • Joe Alexander, Madison, Wisconsin. Joe is an avid audiophile and staff writer for Home Theater Shack.
  • Leonard Caillouet, Gainesville, Florida. Leonard has installed and set up speakers professionally for much of his life. He is a Moderator and Administrator and one of the chief technical gurus for Home Theater Shack.
  • Wayne Myers, Lincoln, Nebraska. A musician and lover of great sound, Wayne has a degree in Audio Technology and reviews speakers and headphones for Home Theater Shack.

Evaluation Tracks

We have gone back and forth a bit on how many test tracks to use. In the end. we decided that a certain number of tracks should be common, that all evaluators would listen to each pair of speakers with them. and that each evaluator could then have a number of tracks of his choice. We each have our favorites that we have used many times before and know exactly how they should sound. And each has his favorite music styles to listen with. Each evaluator spent one-half hour with every speaker pair at its ideal setup, plus brief listens close to the wall (zero toe and zero listening angle) and with Audyssey MultEQ.

No code has to be inserted here.


Associated Equipment


  • OPPO BDP-105 Universal Player - We will be using the 105 as the source for this evaluation. All of the tracks used during this evaluation event were extracted using either dBPowerAmp or Exact Audio Copy (EAC) from the original CDs, and were written to a USB flash drive and accessed for playback via the 5509's front-panel USB port. We appreciate OPPO being a sponsor here at HTS.


  • Onkyo PR-SC5509 9.2-Channel Network A/V Preamplifier - Our preamp/processor for the event: Onkyos' 5509. It is a highly capable processor and very well regarded as one of the top preamp processors available. We decided in this speaker listening event to include a brief evaluation for each speaker pair with Audyssey MultEQ engaged to see how it affects the soundstage and image clarity and "evens out" the room's influence on frequency response. The 5509, with MuiltEQ XT32 capability, made this a breeze. Of course, its 192kHz/32bit Burr-Brown DACs and specs like 0.05% total noise plus distortion (20 Hz–20 kHz, Half power) ensure it to remain completely transparent. We appreciate Onkyo being a sponsor here at HTS.


  • Emotiva XPR-5 Five-Channel Reference Power Amplifier - The XPR-5 is a fully discrete, dual differential, high current, short signal path Class A/B amplifier with a Class-H power supply. The power supply rails are modulated to stay a minimum number of volts above the amplifier's output. This yields an efficient design that will stay cool while driving a pair of 8 Ohm speakers to 500 W or a pair of 4 Ohm speakers to 750 W. Having lots of clean power available is important when evaluating two-channel speakers. With the XPR-5 there is never a question or concern about being able to drive the speakers under test cleanly and reliably. Thanks to Emotiva for being a sponsor at HTS.


Thoughts On Placing Expensive Speakers Close To A Wall

Most speakers in most rooms will not sound that great when placed close to a wall. Remember that we are talking about fairly serious, discriminating listening, mainly to music, with roughly $3,000 worth of speakers. Our belief is that anyone willing to spend that kind of money on speakers will be serious enough about good sound to find the best possible way to set them up and get the absolute best performance from them, even if it means moving them to that desired location temporarily when said listener feels like getting a serious dose of great music with great sound.

There are speakers that do not sound too bad close to the wall. But none, in our experience, can give a deep, engaging soundstage when too close to the wall. If one has to place a pair of speakers close to a wall, it would be better to save money and buy a pair for a few hundred dollars - check out our Reviews Area for candidates - and call it good. A $3,000 pair of speakers might sound a little better there, but will not sound great and it is highly doubtful you will be getting your "money's worth" from those speakers with them shoved up against a wall.

Having said all that, some readers have expressed interest in doing exactly what we do not suggest, or they are at least curious enough to ask about it, and may place an expensive set of loudspeakers - like the ones we evaluate here - next to a wall. After all, it is their money to do with as they please. So, having made our recommendation, we have chosen to be as helpful as possible and briefly listen to these speakers close to a wall. This information will be included with the individual reviews.


Thoughts On Equalizing High-End Speakers

There was a time when it simply was not done. That time is past. There are numerous ways it can be accomplished these days...
  • With pinpoint frequency precision.
  • Using exactly the type and amount of correction desired.
  • With phase/time correction if desired.
  • Without adding noise or distortion.
  • Without adding audible artifacts.
We performed extensive listening tests with carefully-applied Audyssey MultEQ correction and with sparingly-applied Parametric EQ (PEQ) correction and are convinced that correction can be achieved without negative effects, and that categorical claims that such correction causes audible corruption are not provable in blind testing and are without merit. As a matter of fact, we are witnesses to some who actually prefer equalized sound.

In our case, we chose to finish the evaluation sequence by applying Audyssey MultEQ XT32 to see how well it could accomplished the following:
  • Lift drooping high frequencies resulting from off-axis listening angles.
  • Even out room-interaction frequency response variations.
  • Tighten and improve soundstage and imaging.
The results are reported with each evaluation.


Our Test Sequence

Here is the sequence that each speaker pair went through:
  1. Close-To-Wall Evaluations 1 & 2.
    • Set up 1.
      • Speaker Location - Set close to the front wall, pointed straight at the Listening Position (LP). We used a previously-decided-upon setup location typical of a home theater environment or a general-purpose room where speakers have to be close to a wall for some reason.
      • Distance from back of the speaker to wall: 2 ft.
      • Distance from center of front baffle to side wall of the room: 5 ft.
      • Distance apart: 9 ft 4 in.
      • Zero Listening Angle (speakers pointed straight at the LP).
    • Run REW Sweeps L & R, check for good matching and proper function.
    • Set up 2.
      • Same as above.
      • Zero Toe In (speakers pointed straight at the back wall).
    • Run REW Sweeps L & R.
    • Evaluate 2. Three to five minutes listening time by each evaluator.
    • Set up 1
    • Evaluate 1. Three to five minutes listening time by each evaluator.
  2. Ideal Location Evaluation 3.
    • Set up 3.
      • Ideal setup location is determined for deep soundstage and sharp imaging. This could take from a few minutes to 45 minutes.
    • Run REW Sweeps L & R.
    • Evaluate 3. Thirty minutes listening time by each evaluator.
  3. Audyssey MultEQ Evaluation 4.
    • Run MultEQ Setup
    • Run REW Sweeps L & R.
    • Evaluate 4. Three to five minutes listening time by each evaluator.
  4. Record physical measurements.


Initial Results

As usual, there were some surprises. We heard some soundstage and imaging that were to die for. While we did not expect any of them to sound terrific in a close-to-the wall setting, a few actually sounded fairly good there, and one sounded VERY good. One model sounded downright awful close to the wall, and then had its revenge by giving us one of the better soundstage / imaging performances in its final setup that we heard over the weekend.

We were amazed to see how a very small difference in listening angle - one degree - that's right, one single degree - could transform a soundstage from lackluster ho-hum to WOW.

Some of these are beastly heavy monsters. And some finishes were eye-popping.

It has been invaluable to have the three sets of ears and listening perspectives together for these events. One evaluator will hear a certain quality and be ready to rave about it, making note of some other "minor factor," and another evaluator will have found that "minor factor" to be more like a showstopper, adding in his notes only a mention of what the first evaluator was crazy about. All in all, our perspectives came to rest with a great deal of consensus, but the contrasting views will no doubt stand out in our final write-ups.

One of the early pairs we listened to - I will never reveal which - got a mixed set of reactions initially. A few hours later, one of the group said he thought they might deserve a second listen in a different location. So we investigated further and found that they did, indeed, give a better performance there. We keep each other grounded, providing checks and balances and perspective balancers at every turn.

In the end, loads of fun were had by all. Terrific hosts and savory grilled meats did not hurt one bit. Cheese curds from Wisconsin and chocolate meltaways from Nebraska made their way to the snack bar. I doubt anyone lost weight with all the treats and good food available. The moderate Alabama weather treated us nicely. Gracey, the Cedar Creek Cinema cat, reminded of us her mascot status and insisted on a scratch or two whenever we came out for a break.

And discussions are under way for what our next evaluation event might entail.

In the mean time, stay tuned for our detailed results. We sill start feeding them into the following posts in the next couple of days.
 
See less See more
8
#31 ·
Of course, the variety in our mix of test recordings becomes a real advantage, even if we rib each other on the choices. While I would not choose to listen to some of them for pleasure, they can be informative, even from the "cheap seats" on the second row while someone else is listening. And sometimes, we find different recordings that we look to for the same information.
 
#33 ·
While I would not choose to listen to some of them for pleasure, they can be informative, even from the "cheap seats" on the second row while someone else is listening.
Absolutely! Very informative! I learned to immediately change the channel and at all cost AVOID buying Crash Test Dummies, Gorilla, Metallica or AC/DC... and the soundtrack from Frozen, if I want to keep my hearing and not get shrilled to deaf. I am learning how to save very good money at the cost of a couple of these metal heads.
 
#32 ·
I concur with the guys - I know not a one of them is enjoying the Metallica and AC/DC back to back, but I like the Metallica track for its kick drum sequences and quick guitar action. And, the AC DC track is one of the best I know for that clean high hat splash.

The look on their faces is just an added bonus... ;)
 
#41 · (Edited)
Chris Botti in Boston, on Bluray - is a key one that I use as reference, to test
speakers. > One of the key tracks that I use is Emmanuel, playing with Lucia
Micarelli - to test the trumpet and Violin sonic sound, and the imaging. >>

Another track that I use is with Sy Smith, singing the Look OF Love.

This is a good Bluray to test Orchestra, trumpet, male and female voices for
good imaging and soundstage presentation.
 
#44 ·
Well, Leonard is on the road home and I will be leaving in a couple hours.

Wayne and I are spending a bit of time today with each set of speakers and applying one more test to each.

I must say - I am exhausted, but it is well worth it. Hope you all like the glut of information that is going to be coming your way! :)
 
#47 ·
Yeah it's pretty obvious when you read Wayne's reviews or articles that he is very thorough and either loves digging into the nitty gritty details or is passionate enough about the end result to go through those details that most are not patient enough to deal with (or, probably, both).

Just take a look at his Audyssey investigation! Yowsa!
 
#52 · (Edited)
There were many speakers in an event in northern Wisconsin a few years ago. Ascends were there. That discussion was on AVS I believe. Maybe search under the Salk or Speaker categories there. I was there. Seaton was there as well.

Found it:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1324185/se-wi-tower-speaker-gtg
 
#67 ·
We gave them a pretty thorough workout, different music styles, more A-B switches than I could keep track of, many quick switches back & forth with repeating loops about 15 to 20 seconds long, some full tracks. Once in awhile I thought I heard a difference, then I would focus on it and find there was none.

Are you referring to Sonnie's theater, or every speaker everywhere? I agree with this myself for the most part, as it has been my experience as well. It breaks my heart to walk in to a theater with 5 figures worth of equipment and see the speakers in the corners or backed up to the front wall.
That has been my experience universally. At 1 foot or closer, no speaker I have worked with has performed well. At about 2 to 3 feet out, a lot of speakers start to perform very nicely. At 3 feet, you can often get enough bass reinforcement to extend the LF to deep levels without muddiness, and an excellent soundstage with nice depth (although farther from the wall will mean an even deeper one). Three feet out from the wall, generally speaking, is the minimum distance I would consider trying for a no-compromises high-performance speaker setup. No doubt there are exceptions.

Nothing we heard in the extensive listening sessions with any of the very fine group of speakers led any of us to ever question whether the associated equipment had any deficiencies that limited our ability to evaluate the loudspeakers. I am also satisfied with Sonnie and Waynes assessment.
As Leonard says, the supporting equipment never drew attention to itself negatively in any way.

How about a description of the food and drink, guys, at least while we're waiting for the technical yet flowery commentary on the speakers?

Inquiring (and jealous) minds want to know..........my stomach does, as well........

Any chance on obtaining any recipes from this funfest?? Or are proprietary secrets involved??
Sonnie would be the one to reveal any culinary secrets, and I doubt he will budge. My observation is that patience, attention to detail, loads of TLC, and a big dash of love for great food and the guests he is preparing to serve -- these seem to be significant factors in his technique, and in the way he goes about most things in his life.

My favorites - his grilled rib tips with caramelized BBQ sauce and the grilled sausage (2 types, cajun and smoked) are the ones that especially knock my socks off. He also crock-pots pork roast or sometimes goat and uses the broth to make rice for a "modest" (meaning you can't get enough of it) side. That's all I know, other than you can eat it right off the grille, then heated up a couple of times for lunch, then cold from the fridge at 2 AM, and never come close to getting tired of it. Just thinking about it makes me want more.
 
#65 ·
Nothing we heard in the extensive listening sessions with any of the very fine group of speakers led any of us to ever question whether the associated equipment had any deficiencies that limited our ability to evaluate the loudspeakers. I am also satisfied with Sonnie and Waynes assessment.
 
#66 ·
How about a description of the food and drink, guys, at least while we're waiting for the technical yet flowery commentary on the speakers?

Inquiring (and jealous) minds want to know..........my stomach does, as well........

Any chance on obtaining any recipes from this funfest?? Or are proprietary secrets involved??
 
#68 ·
Okay... I will give ya one "cold from the fridge at 2AM"... but how about Angie saying she heard a little mouse in the fridge one morning about 3AM ... and as she describes it... the "deet deet deet" of the microwave buttons.

I do love to cook... and let me tell you... these guys deserve to be treated like kings for all they do. Being away from their family for several days... putting in a LOT of solid listening hours... several hours of moving speakers around six inches at a time... it is a LOT to ask them to do, all for the love of doing it and their loyalty to making this forum one of the most informative (without the nonsense). I can hear Wayne now... "mark that spot and let's move them forward about 6-8 inches".... "okay toe them in a little more"... "nope, back out"... "okay let bring them in a little more"... "ahhh back to the starting point" (Leonard and Joe looking at other intently)... "okay... let's go back about 6-8"... "now in about 6"... "toe back out a little"... "now bring them forward a bit"..."ahhh, back to where they started" (Leonard and Joe rolling eyes)... "okay guys, let's turn them upside down" (of course not... I was joking)... you get the idea.

You gotta love it all.
 
#69 ·
I can hear Wayne now... "mark that spot and let's move them forward about 6-8 inches".... "okay toe them in a little more"... "nope, back out"... "okay let bring them in a little more"... "ahhh back to the starting point" (Leonard and Joe looking at other intently)... "okay... let's go back about 6-8"... "now in about 6"... "toe back out a little"... "now bring them forward a bit"..."ahhh, back to where they started" (Leonard and Joe rolling eyes)... "okay guys, let's turn them upside down" (of course not... I was joking)... you get the idea.

You gotta love it all.
I hope you guys pace yourselves on the frequency of these evaluations, so as to avoid 'burnout' :heehee: I also wish that you would carry out the evaluations prior to the advertised date, then immediately release the results without delay! :whistling:
 
#76 ·
Sorry, but it takes me a while to digest my notes and form them into a coherent document. They are about a page of quick observations in no sensible order, with abreviations and my own shorthand from the moment...for each speaker. That has to get translated into something that communicates the experience in a meaningful way and that takes using both sides of the brain. I am lucky at any point in time to have one working well. So it will get here when it gets here. I'll try to get most of the first drafts done this weekend and a couple of them finished.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top