Home Theater Shack Forums
Epik Subwoofers manufactures world-leading high performance subwoofers for die-hard home theater and music enthusiasts who won't settle for anything less than the best.
PacParts, Inc.: Since 1969, PacParts has been supplying quality replacement parts & accessories from the most recognized manufacturers in the Consumer Electronics Industry.
GIK Acoustics: Home audio acoustics at its best... especially when you have help from the owners right here at the Shack!  Check out their very affordable acoustic panels!
Discount Merchant:  If you need a replacement bulb for your video device... look no further... save big!
ReliableHardware.com: A Reliable Source for Case, Cabinet and Acoustical Hardware!
Fi Audio: Infinitely amazing balanced high end musicality designed drivers!
SVSound: The Sound Authority in speaker and subwoofers as well as the astounding AS EQ1 Subwoofer Equalizer!
Elite Screens offers the finest in affordable projection screens.
Creative Sound Solutions: Loudspeaker kits and components for subwoofers, midwoofers, woofers and full range speakers!
Emotiva is your Home Theater Component Source for Audiophile Quality Home Theater Equipment at Factory Direct Prices
RAM Electronics: Audio, Video, Home Theater and Computer Cables.
Ultimate Home Entertainment: Providing home theater seating and accessories such as popcorn machines and signage... at very affordable prices!
Go Back   Home Theater Systems - Electronics and Forum - HomeTheaterShack > Manufactured Speakers and Subwoofers > Home Audio Speakers
Room EQ WizardBFD Guide
Forgot Password?
Favorites Home Theater Links Donations Image Gallery

Home Audio Speakers

Bi-amp or...

Discuss Bi-amp or... in the Manufactured Speakers and Subwoofers forum; Bi-amp or... I have a question!, I just dont know, is it better to use an amp with more power to power ...


 Reply     Post New Thread
Views: 1142 - Replies: 22  
Thread Tools
Old 01-22-08, 08:38 AM   #1
Senior Shackster
Platinum Supporter
Alias: Rodny
Rodny Alvarez's Avatar
Loc: Millbrook AL
User: #158
Since: Apr 2006
Posts: 818
  Rodny Alvarez is online now    
Bi-amp or...


I have a question!, I just dont know, is it better to use an amp with more power to power my speakers or Bi-amp the speakers, I have VR3 boston Acoustics and a Emotiva LPA-1(125 watts x 6)
I can run the LPA-1 6 channel, 125 + 125 on each speaker Bi-amp
If more power is better I will upgrade to the new 5 channel Emotiva (200 watts x 5)

Thanks!!


Forum Rules Reply With Quote
Alt Advertisement
Old 01-22-08, 09:07 AM   #2
stephenb1
Inactive
Alias:
User: #
Posts: n/a
   
Re: Bi-amp or...


Hi personally would say bi-amp, 125w per speaker driver is enough power really unless you have a really big room.

Bi- amping with give a smoother and better defined sound.

See how you like the sound bi-amped and then upgrade,
if you can up the power to 200w per driver all the better.


Forum Rules Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-08, 10:23 AM   #3
Shack Hillbilly
Owner

Alias: Sonnie
Sonnie's Avatar
Loc: L.A. (Lower Bama)
User: #1
Since: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,165
  Sonnie is offline    
Re: Bi-amp or...


I'm going to bi-amp my Ascent i's when I get my NAD T785. It has 7 channels... I plan to reassign those 2 extra channels to the front.


Forum Rules Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-08, 10:31 AM   #4
Shack Moderator
Platinum Supporter
Alias: Dr Doan
Loc: Oklahoma City, OK
User: #2314
Since: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,250
  drdoan is offline    
Re: Bi-amp or...


I would go with bi-amping assuming the ams have great sound, and they do. Dennis


L Dennis Doan, DC
Gonstead Chiropractor
IT'S THE NERVE!
www.drdoan.com
www.healedthefilm.com
SVSound SBS-01 fronts, center, rear surrounds (I was honored to be the 1st purchaser of these great speakers)
Klipsch RS-42 side surrounds
SVSound SB12-Plus/2 sub (w/12.3 drivers)
AS-EQ1 Sub Equalizer (WOW!)
Denon AVR-2807 Receiver w/AudysseyXT
Toshiba DVD Recorder w/HDMI
Direct TV DVR HD
BenQ W5000 projector mounted on ceiling. 91" MovieTime pull-down screen
15' x 11.8' vaulted ceiling dedicated HT room w/DIY sound absorption
:

Forum Rules Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-08, 10:46 AM   #5
Elite Shackster
Alias: Andrew
avaserfi's Avatar
Loc: College Station, TX
User: #9992
Since: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,119
  avaserfi is offline  
Re: Bi-amp or...


Quote:
DS-21 wrote: View Post
Unless you have dynamic strain issues now, either course will be pointless.

Bi-amping is just buy-amping unless you take the crossover (and EQ functions inherent therein) outboard. And the difference between 125W and 200W is pretty much negligible.
Dead on. There isn't a better way to put it. Also, every doubling of power is equivalent to a 3dB increase so going from 125W to 200W will only add about 2dB of output. Simply not worth it unless like DS-21 said you want to go full active .


Forum Rules Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-08, 11:44 AM   #6
Shack Hillbilly
Owner

Alias: Sonnie
Sonnie's Avatar
Loc: L.A. (Lower Bama)
User: #1
Since: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,165
  Sonnie is offline    
Re: Bi-amp or...


So is it better to just let those two extra channels do nothing? (This is not a sarcastic question. )


Forum Rules Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-08, 12:00 PM   #7
Elite Shackster
Alias: Andrew
avaserfi's Avatar
Loc: College Station, TX
User: #9992
Since: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,119
  avaserfi is offline  
Re: Bi-amp or...


Quote:
Sonnie wrote: View Post
So is it better to just let those two extra channels do nothing? (This is not a sarcastic question. )
If you have them it doesn't hurt to use them, but you won't be gaining much. If you are considering buying a more powerful or new amp for the application the advice is don't .

So I would recommend you do what you want, but tell the OP to save his money and keep the amp he has.


Forum Rules Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-08, 12:25 PM   #8
Senior Shackster
Alias: Konky
conchyjoe7's Avatar
Loc: Canton, GA USA
User: #11137
Since: Aug 2007
Posts: 208
  conchyjoe7 is offline  
Re: Bi-amp or...


Kinda off topic...sorry...Sonnie, what happened to the Anthem equipment you were getting? Just curious.
Cheers,
Konky.


I get up...I get the paper...I read the obituaries...if I don't see my name; I go ahead and have breakfast! George Burns.

Forum Rules Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-08, 12:30 PM   #9
Senior Shackster
Alias: Kal
Loc: NYC + CT
User: #1881
Since: Aug 2006
Posts: 491
  Kal Rubinson is online now  
Re: Bi-amp or...


Quote:
Sonnie wrote: View Post
So is it better to just let those two extra channels do nothing? (This is not a sarcastic question. )
Definitely. Leaves more of the power supply reserves for the channels in use.

Kal


Forum Rules Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-08, 12:33 PM   #10
stephenb1
Inactive
Alias:
User: #
Posts: n/a
   
Re: Bi-amp or...


Hi i would agree keep the amp for the time being and upgrade when the op is ready, but would also say 200-250watt is fine.

I think each of my drivers sees around 200-225watt for the mid bass and sub-bass into 4 ohms via a tri-amp setup and would say they could still do with around 50-100w more, buts thats my preference.

The extra power adds better dynamics, image ,handling of the speakers, extra real loudness and so on.

I once ran some 50watt pioneer mid speakers with a 300w p.a. power amp and they loved it.

Also maybe the op could then use a decent active cross-over as it adds so much, definitely one of the best upgrades for me so far was going active.


Last edited by stephenb1; 01-22-08 at 08:46 PM..

Forum Rules Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-08, 05:16 PM   #11
Shack Hillbilly
Owner

Alias: Sonnie
Sonnie's Avatar
Loc: L.A. (Lower Bama)
User: #1
Since: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,165
  Sonnie is offline    
Re: Bi-amp or...


I agree... I see no reason for him to upgrade his amp either.


Quote:
conchyjoe7 wrote: View Post
Kinda off topic...sorry...Sonnie, what happened to the Anthem equipment you were getting? Just curious.
Cheers,
Konky.
I could not afford to keep it... long story, but bottom line is there were other things I needed and couldn't get them if I kept the Anthem stuff. I broke even since I got it at a very good deal... actually made a little. The Anthem gear had a lot of stuff I didn't need... like an expensive Gennum scaler and all sorts of video patterns that I don't know how to use and don't want to learn how to use. I opted instead to order up a NAD T785 Receiver, which frees up some needed room in my cabinet. I doesn't upconvert or scale, which I don't need and should have plenty of power for me. I am also getting that at a very good price, so this freed me up for some other things.


Forum Rules Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-08, 08:41 PM   #12
Senior Shackster
Platinum Supporter
Alias: Rodny
Rodny Alvarez's Avatar
Loc: Millbrook AL
User: #158
Since: Apr 2006
Posts: 818
  Rodny Alvarez is online now    
Re: Bi-amp or...


I guess I just need to Bi-amp and see if I can hear any difference.


Thanks!!


Forum Rules Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-08, 09:08 PM   #13
Friend of the Shack
Platinum Supporter
Alias: Otto
Otto's Avatar
Loc: Beautiful Colorado
User: #625
Since: May 2006
Posts: 1,453
  Otto is offline  
Re: Bi-amp or...


Quote:
Rodny Alvarez wrote: View Post
I guess I just need to Bi-amp and see if I can hear any difference.


Thanks!!
Excellent take on it, Rodny. There are a lot of opinions on this, and there are various facts and myths. But the best thing in the end is to decide for yourself! Good luck, and let us know how it goes.


-- Otto

Forum Rules Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-08, 09:35 PM   #14
Shack Hillbilly
Owner

Alias: Sonnie
Sonnie's Avatar
Loc: L.A. (Lower Bama)
User: #1
Since: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,165
  Sonnie is offline    
Re: Bi-amp or...


I'd definitely be interested in whether or not you can hear a difference. A blind A/B test would be even mo betta.


This thread caused me to ask some more questions about amp power. Rather than hijack Rodny's thread... some of you might chime in on a new thread I started.


Forum Rules Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-08, 09:45 PM   #15
Elite Shackster
Alias: Andrew
avaserfi's Avatar
Loc: College Station, TX
User: #9992
Since: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,119
  avaserfi is offline  
Re: Bi-amp or...


Quote:
Sonnie wrote: View Post
I'd definitely be interested in whether or not you can hear a difference. A blind A/B test would be even mo betta.
I would venture that a properly done ABx is the only way to factually determine if there is an audible difference. I have personally conducted 3 separate bi-amp and bi-wire "studies" with 6 participants and have yet to find anyone who has heard a difference in terms of statistical significance.


Forum Rules Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-08, 09:55 PM   #16
Senior Shackster
Alias: Mazer
mazersteven's Avatar
Loc: Melbourne, Florida
User: #8008
Since: Apr 2007
Posts: 134
  mazersteven is offline  
Re: Bi-amp or...


Those speakers are so efficient I doubt that he would hear a difference.


Forum Rules Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-08, 09:57 PM   #17
Shack Hillbilly
Owner

Alias: Sonnie
Sonnie's Avatar
Loc: L.A. (Lower Bama)
User: #1
Since: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,165
  Sonnie is offline    
Re: Bi-amp or...


Quote:
avaserfi wrote: View Post
I would venture that a properly done ABx is the only way to factually determine if there is an audible difference. I have personally conducted 3 separate bi-amp and bi-wire "studies" with 6 participants and have yet to find anyone who has heard a difference in terms of statistical significance.
Hence the reasoning that bi-amping is wasting the power and would be better served as reserve for all channels when needed?


Forum Rules Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-08, 10:05 PM   #18
Elite Shackster
Alias: Andrew
avaserfi's Avatar
Loc: College Station, TX
User: #9992
Since: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,119
  avaserfi is offline  
Re: Bi-amp or...


Quote:
Sonnie wrote: View Post
Hence the reasoning that bi-amping is wasting the power and would be better served as reserve for all channels when needed?
Normally, I would say so, but some amps are designed with a smaller shared power source so that they are almost like multiple mono-blocks within one case. In general I wouldn't worry too much about powering speakers. I think everyone gets too caught up in it. I explained a little more in your other thread.


Forum Rules Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-08, 03:54 PM   #19
New Member
Alias: dave a
Loc: Maryland
User: #4376
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 4
  davidaht is offline  
Cool Re: Bi-amp or...


I have always advocated multi-path amplification with crossover/EQ functions ahead of the final amplifiers and direct connections from each amplifier output to a single driver. All the pro situations in which I have worked go that way. Those who know a lot more than I almost always go that way for their best ‘home’ equipment, even if that means eight amplifier channels for just the left and right main speakers. As a concept, I'm doing work to move in that direction for at least my front speakers.

See this very, very pricey manufactured product:

B&W Nautilus (flagship model) Make sure to read through the specs - although the whole design concept is responsible, I don't think a product with passive crossovers could accomplish this.

or this product ranging from moderate cost as a DIY to somewhat pricey as a finished product:

The ORION from LinkwitzLab

And I concur with the idea that bi or tri-amplification, or even more, is only worth it if you go ‘all the way’, moving all crossover and EQ functions ahead of the amplifiers leaving a ‘clean’ path between amplifier output and driver. The amplifier exerts better control over each driver. No passive crossover elements to introduce additional problems such as varying phase shift over a range of frequencies.

Merely splitting a full-range signal to two amplifier channels and then sending one full range signal through the half of the crossover network that filters out highs and the other full range signal through the half of the crossover network that filters out lows gains very little, other than relieving the amplifier channel driving the bass of a small portion of the wattage it would otherwise have to handle and allowing the channel handling the mids and highs to work less. For some amplifiers this is an advantage, for others, not so much.


Forum Rules Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-08, 05:59 PM   #20
Senior Shackster
Gold Supporter
Alias: Jean-Pierre
imbeaujp's Avatar
Loc: Beaumont, Quebec, CANADA
User: #12596
Since: Oct 2007
Posts: 274
  imbeaujp is offline  
Re: Bi-amp or...


Quote:
Sonnie wrote: View Post
So is it better to just let those two extra channels do nothing? (This is not a sarcastic question. )
What is the impact for a single powersupply to drive 4 channels ?

If you have 2 separate power amps, it is not a point, but a 7 channel amp use the same powersupply... I am not sure this will make any difference.

The best way is to try it. If you can not hear a difference, then leave it single wired.



JP


Forum Rules Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-08, 12:35 AM   #21
Shack Hillbilly
Owner

Alias: Sonnie
Sonnie's Avatar
Loc: L.A. (Lower Bama)
User: #1
Since: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,165
  Sonnie is offline    
Re: Bi-amp or...


I think Rodny and I are planning an A/B type comparison when we get a chance to get together. He may bring his Emotiva down... plus we could test an EP2500 for two-channel. Of course it would all be subjective, but fun still.


Forum Rules Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-08, 05:47 PM   #22
Shackster
Alias: Frosti7
User: #21106
Since: May 2008
Posts: 12
  frosti7 is offline  
Re: Bi-amp or...


I recently got myself a nice Parasound Hca-2205a 5x220w amp just for stereo bi-amping
From my experience the bi-amping opened up the sound slightly, but the quality of the amp hade a more pronounced effect (going from nad 214)


Forum Rules Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-08, 09:24 PM   #23
Shackster
Alias: johnG
Loc: ws12 3yh
User: #19131
Since: Apr 2008
Posts: 5
  john guest is offline  
Re: Bi-amp or...


It all depends if you are a two channel music fan , if you are and you like it loud then you will hear a big difference in the way the pair of amps handle the speakers. I have my main speakers bi amped for music and they sound fabulous and there is a very big difference at volumes higher than 50% . I tried bi wiring and could not tell a noticeable difference, there was , but very slight.As for leaving two channels unused , if the quality of your power amp is good and well designed, It will be a waste of two good channels not to be used in this manner. However you should always go with your ears , and try it out , if it sounds no different look else ware to improve the sound. On film sound tracks I hear very little difference in by amping the front channels , as you are engrossed in the overall experience of multichannel sound and display and of course, mainly, the movie its self.


Forum Rules Reply With Quote
 Reply     Post New Thread

« Home Theater Shack > Manufactured Speakers and Subwoofers > Home Audio Speakers »

« Previous Thread   Next Thread »

Bookmarks
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads... You may not post replies... You may not post attachments... You may not edit your posts

BB code is On... Smilies are On... [IMG] code is On... HTML is not allowed!




Parts Express: The #1 Internet source for all your DIY and electronics needs!

Ultimate Home Entertainment

This site is best viewed with a screen resolution of 1280 x 1024 or higher!

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:33 PM.



Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Vendor Tools vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.

Copyright ©2006 - 2009, Home Theater Shack, LLC.
John Mulcahy and Sonnie Parker - ALL RIGHTS RESERVED!



Projector Screens   AV Carts   Lectern   WhiteBoards   Audio Video   HDMI Cables   Multimedia   AV Blog
Massage Chairs   Wall Fountains   Bath Vanities   Electric Fireplaces   Bunk Beds
Dish Network     Dish Network deals




Sponsor/Vendor Ad Rates

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331