SVS PB12-NSD alternatives... maybe the HSU VTF-3.3

I'd like to hear opinions comparing the current versions of the SVS PB12-NSD to the HSU VTF-3.3.

As a disclaimer, I'm by no means a subwoofer expert, and it would be a shame if anyone made a buying decision based on anything that I say here.

I've just gotten the PB12-NSD in my house, in a really big room (7000 ft^3)... and it sounds *just okay* so far.

When I tune the sub via SPL meter, I feel like the sub isn't making enough contribution to either movies or music listening. When I tune the sub louder, to the point that I start to like the way it sounds when listening to loud bass-heavy music (techno and hip-hop), the sub seems to distort a bit when playing back loud movie scenes.

For example, in the scene in the Fellowship of the Ring when Sauron's finger gets cut off, the sub seemed to huff-and-puff during the really loud parts. It also sounds a little rough during the opening fly-by scenes of the silver ship in Attack of the Clones.

Also, when listening to music I sometimes feel that the sub isn't playing really low notes back the way I've heard them elsewhere.

I've been given the impression that with such a large room, I might not be really impressed by *anything* in the ~$600 range. Is this just a given?

So what to do? Keep the sub, or return it during my 45-day money back guarantee?

I'm considering if it could possibly be worth while to order the VTF-3.3 and keep the one I like best. It'll probably cost me a maximum of $200 to try, as I'll have to pay shipping both ways for the sub I return.

But is the VTF-3.3 different enough from the PB12-NSD that it could possibly be worth a try?

Likely the VTF 3.3 would have a similar issue. It is the room volume. Have you considered trying a dual driver sub? Or even more expensive -- two subwoofers.

Yep $600 is not likely to solve this unless you get a great deal on a used sub (best if a dual 12" driver). Or try a DIY project.

You could try the AV123 MFW-15($599) or the EPIK Knight($599+shipping).

There is a bit of a wait for either of these but they both use a larger cabinet and 15" driver. They should be capable of more output than the PB12 NSD. That is a huge room though, so one of these may not be enough either, but in the $600 class it's not going to get much better.

Also you may want to reduce your LFE output a bit on your reciever if it is overloading your SVS.

I don't know that switching to the Hsu sub will make that much of an impact. You might want to take a look at some of Ikka's tests to see if there is something that might lead you to think that you might get enough extra oomph to get the bass you're looking for.

My suspicion is that you'll have to move up the food chain further in the SVS or Hsu line up before you get to the bass levels you're looking for.. unless you build your own.

JCD

Thanks very much for the help so far, everyone.

If I were to look over Ilkka's tests, what would I be looking for that might indicate that a particular sub would sound the way I want it to in a big room. Is it just max SPL?

For a room of your size I would be looking for a large or multiple driver(s) and lots of power. Possibly 4 PB12's would be needed, IMO, for them to sound right in a room of that size.

Elemental Designs and Epik have some large driver high power designs that won't break the bank, but they are not the most aesthetically pleasing subs around, although I kind of like the look. I would try calling some of the companies mentioned in all the replies here to see what each would recommend for a room of your size.

Maybe the quick fix would be to buy another PB12-NSD and integrate two subwoofers.

I tried the PB12NSD in my Dad's room and it wasn't enough but he has a really tough room. I sent it back and got an Ultra. DEFINITELY worth the extra expense. I tried to get my Dad to get a Submersive but he didn't want to spend the extra money and more importantly he didn't really have the room for it.

You're square footage is a real killer for any sub and you'll need a killer sub to overcome it.

Ya know, on the page below Ilkka mentions that the VTF-3 "Suits well for larger rooms not having much low end room gain"

but says that the PB12-NSD "Good extension and good frequency response for mid-sized and small rooms"

It sounds to me like he's making these judgments based on the frequency response of each sub.


http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...html#post45289

My last post wasn't very clear. I intended to ask this question:

Reading Ilkka's comments (VTF-3 good for large rooms, PB12-NSD good for mid-sized rooms)... what about each sub leads him to draw these conclusions?

I would think Ilka is the one to be answering that question, why not just send a PM.

actually, I must be forum-dumb... 'cause I couldn't figure out how to send him a PM on this forum. So I posted the question here hoping that he or some other jedi would help out.

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That must have been it. It's funny, I said to myself "wow, it's strange that this forum has PM turned off"

Quick update: I've spent some time with REW and Audyssey tuning my system, and I think things sound *much* better now.

I was running the sub too hot, with some big problems with frequency response due to the room placement. Now that I've got the tuning worked out better I'm *much* happier with the PB12-NSD. Now when the "Nazguls Attack" the wing flapping is much better...

I'm now no longer considering swapping out for another 12" sub. Thanks to all who helped.

I too, found the PB12-NSD in need of better placement to be happy with its output and my room is not even half as big as yours.

Torsion: I must question one part of your information in your original post. You said your "room" was 7000 square feet. With all due respect, I really really doubt that...7000 cubic feet is probably correct. A 7000 square foot room is about 3-4 times the size of an average entire home! Now, while I don't for a second doubt that you live in a large place...I seriously doubt it's Carnegie Hall. I see that placement and measuring have cleared up most if not all of your problems which also leads me to believe that your original number is in error as the sub you have, no matter where it is placed nor how it is measured is going to give you much in 7000 sq. ft.
Just my 2 cents worth on an observation...
In any case; glad you got your problem worked out!
Cheers,
Konky.

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I get up...I get the paper...I read the obituaries...if I don't see my name; I go ahead and have breakfast! George Burns.

Oh hell, you're absolutely right, conchyjoe7. The main room is about 7000 *cubic* feet.

What a goober I am... so all these nice people were trying to help me, but I gave them the wrong info! No wonder jakewash recommended 4 PB12-NSDs

I got over 6000 cubic feet and am running two MBM-12's and two 3.3 Turbo's.

Bill

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VSX-94THX, Bue Jeans cables, JBL - E90 mains w/M2200 200 watt Mono Blocks
JBL - EC35 center w/M2200 200 watt Mono Block, INFINITY - Beta ES250 surrounds
JBL - E50 rear surrounds, (2) HSU - VTF-3 MK3 Turbo, VTF-3 MK3 & (2) HSU - MBM-12
Toshibia HD DVD AX2 (HDDVD), Panasonic DMP-BD30 (BluRay)

Its a big step up but the SVS PB13 Ultra