Help With Subwoofer Choice For Large Room - Page 3 - Home Theater Forum and Systems -

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post #21 of 25 Old 09-06-06, 08:45 PM Thread Starter
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Location: Swansboro, NC
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Re: Help With Subwoofer Choice For Large Room

khellandros66 wrote
Mark after reading some recent posts it seems you want extremely clean and accurate bass. I will say the Triad InRoom Platinum, Paradigm Servo-15a, and SVS PB12-Ultra/2 will give it to you
Bob- I would say that sums it up. I have said earlier in this thread that even though we only listen to music 25% of the time, I want to start with music and knock it out of the park so to speak ,and hope HT falls into place where it should. But clean, accurate, and tight is what I'm hoping for, you nailed it. I don't see how those qualities would be bad for HT. I think that leaves me to choose from the better sealed subs and the SVS PB12/+2. I read up on the Triad Platinum today, specs look good but it appears to be as expensive as the SVS Ultra/2. Also, I read this review, which appears to have some good testing, and there is concern with how it handled some of the low/demanding passages.

Maybe give it a read and let me know how you interpret the findings.

When I started this process, the Def Tech Supercube I and Reference were on the list. I had listened to these briefly back when I bought the Mythos set 18 months ago, so I don't remember exactly what they sounded like, I would need to listen again. It seems like those models are not liked/held in high regard by very many and definitely not on any of the forums ( I also read along on AVS, Ecoustics, and a few others occasionally). Obviously, I have not reached a decision yet, but I originally thought maybe 2 SC I's or 1 SC Ref would be worth considering. I'm now wondering are they just not all that. There are a few good reviews to be found, not many, and I also get the idea some people are turned off by the specs Def Tech publishes, the thinking presumably that the low end numbers are not accurate or realistic. It has been suggested to me here by a knowledgeable member that I need a big driver with big dynamics behind it, maybe a pair, to do a respectable job in my large space, which I fully understand. And then there is the sealed vs. ported issue. As long as I can get the tight, accurate, controlled bass like you mentioned, I will be happy. Oh well, the research and looking has always been half the fun for me. Thanks for your help.

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post #22 of 25 Old 09-09-06, 11:32 PM
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Re: Help With Subwoofer Choice For Large Room

I listened to the 15in model a while back and was told that there have been modifications, I remember and possibley still have that review in the rubble of magazines from years ago. Keep in mind that article is approaching 3 years old now.

Call Paul Scarpelli - Dir. of Sales & Marketing (435) 688-8883

He will give you the lowdown about that article. I have talked to him on AVS in the past and he is a very nice guy.

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post #23 of 25 Old 09-10-06, 08:04 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Help With Subwoofer Choice For Large Room

Bob- Thanks for the info, I'll give Paul a call this week. What is your take on the Def Tech Supercubes and what appears to be a bias against them by some?

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post #24 of 25 Old 09-10-06, 04:04 PM
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Re: Help With Subwoofer Choice For Large Room

kramskoi wrote: View Post
...i can give you one good piece of advice and i'm sure Tom or Ron at SVS will echo my sentiments, "headroom is your friend" so get "more" than you think you need. I can't stress this enough... you want dynamics to stay sharp, distortion to stay low and drivers working well within their limits of operation...this will affect the soundstage and overall presentation...the Paradigm Servo15 and the ACI Maestro are fantastic units for sealed and the Ultra/2 is the cutting edge vented sub in SVS's stable...stupendously capable...VERY robust driver architecture on all these...don't get caught up in the woofer size/speed myth ...high-end drivers have the motor strength to meet the demands of their respective applications...
Outstanding post. It's been said before: "headroom has a quality all its own".

In an 11,000 ft3 room, it will be very easy to drive certain subwoofers into output compression, which will cause the deepest frequencies to lack slam and impact relative to the mid/upper bass regions.

While any conventional subwoofer can eventually be driven into compression, sealed subwoofers suffer more from this phenomenon because the woofer is responsible for generating 100% of the output at all frequencies. And excursion requirements quadruple with each successively lower octave. So you can imagine at the very deepest frequencies, a single driver sealed subwoofer will really be struggling to fill a room that size without significant output compression at high playback volumes.

"Clean, accurate, and tight" all go out the window when the subwoofer is being driven into compression. The frequency response becomes non-linear, distortion skyrockets (often approaching 100%), and deep bass dynamics suffer.

Just to give you a frame of reference, if I was going to design an IB subwoofer for that size room, I would specify at least eight (8) 15" high excursion woofers. And remember, and IB subwoofer is just a large sealed subwoofer. Any DIY-er familiar with IB applications would support me in this recommendation, I'm sure.

Another frame of reference is that a single high performance 15" sealed subwoofer (say something like the Servo-15 V2) will offer approximately the same deep bass output capability as a single 12" high performance reflex (vented or PR) design - at least down to the tuning frequency of the reflex sub. With that said, the 15" sealed will typically have somewhat higher mid/upper bass output capability, but output in that region is rarely a limiting factor; the deep bass always compresses first.

Minimum commercial sub recommendations I could live with in that size room would be along the lines of:

1) one (1) Danley DTS-20
2) four (4) Servo-15 V2
3) four (4) Velo DD-18
4) two (2) Seaton Sound "Submersive" (a dual 15" sealed subwoofer)
5) two (2) AV123 BMF (a Seaton-designed single 15" bandpass with triple PRs)
6) two (2) SVS PB12-Plus/2 (a dual 12" vented reflex)
7) four (4) Triad Platinum InRoom PowerSub
8) four (4) Hsu VTF-3 MKII

As an aside, when evaluating any of Yates' data from the WDD shoot-out, keep in mind his output values are normalized to 1 meter, and for a 2 meter equivalent you need to subtract 6 dB. Then you will be able to compare his data to reviews from AVTalk, Ilkka Rissanen, and myself (who all test at 2 meters).

Last edited by Ed Mullen; 09-10-06 at 06:29 PM.
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post #25 of 25 Old 09-11-06, 06:34 AM
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Re: Help With Subwoofer Choice For Large Room

4 Servo 15's would be an experience, that's for sure.
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