Best small powered subs for music only!

**Huck** · **09-28-06, 05:13 PM**

Hi: I am looking for a smallish pair of "powered" box subs with a small footprint(10" square) and maybe one or two 8
or 10 inch drivers per unit. I have a SVS 20-39 PC-Plus that does duty for movies, but I am looking for something that can enforce the bottom-end on my PSB Goldi's for music only. I think that "most" subs are o.k. for movies, but I think "most" subs don't do just music well....at least that's what I think! I was looking at some of the Carver Sunfire subs, which tend to have small foot-print, but I don't think these are available anymore! I will try my SVS with music just for kicks as soon as I pick up a controller.. . Any recommendations for small subs? Thanks, Huck

**JCD** · **09-28-06, 05:37 PM**

Quote:

Huck wrote:

Hi: I am looking for a smallish pair of "powered" box subs with a small footprint(10" square) and maybe one or two 8
or 10 inch drivers per unit. I have a SVS 20-39 PC-Plus that does duty for movies, but I am looking for something that can enforce the bottom-end on my PSB Goldi's for music only. I think that "most" subs are o.k. for movies, but I think "most" subs don't do just music well....at least that's what I think! I was looking at some of the Carver Sunfire subs, which tend to have small foot-print, but I don't think these are available anymore! I will try my SVS with music just for kicks as soon as I pick up a controller.. . Any recommendations for small subs? Thanks, Huck

Well, I think a 10" footprint with a 10" driver might be hard to find, but SVS has a new product coming out in October that might be good for what you're looking for -- the SB12-Plus. 15x14x14 and has a 12" driver.

That being said, I would think that the SVS you have would kill the Carver Sunfire's you mentioned for movies AND music.

JCD

**Huck** · **09-28-06, 07:14 PM**

JCD: Thanks for the reply! Yes! the SVS is "wicked" for movies...I had it pushing 110db on the "Invincibles" rocket launch portion, but I'm not sure about that kind of bass for music! That's why I am looking for something with small driver(s). I think larger drivers are perfect for trolling deep for movies, but I think that tend to be a little "loose" with music and the smaller drivers are a little faster!
I will keep looking! Thanks,Huck

**MACCA350** · **09-29-06, 04:12 AM**

Quote:

Huck wrote:

JCD: Thanks for the reply! Yes! the SVS is "wicked" for movies...I had it pushing 110db on the "Invincibles" rocket launch portion, but I'm not sure about that kind of bass for music! That's why I am looking for something with small driver(s). I think larger drivers are perfect for trolling deep for movies, but I think that tend to be a little "loose" with music and the smaller drivers are a little faster!
I will keep looking! Thanks,Huck

The term you are looking for is 'Transient Response'. If you want the best of both worlds have a look at servo-controlled subs with a large driver, they cost a bit more, but I'll never go back.

cheers

**Josuah** · **09-30-06, 03:45 AM**

Transient response is also called group delay, if I've been paying attention correctly. If you have a group delay that is less than the cycle time of your frequency (e.g. 50ms at 20Hz) then I believe the subwoofer is "fast" enough. I'm not sure if I'm 100% correct here. We need a sub expert.

But anyway, ported subs are not necessarily worse than sealed subs with regards to group delay. I've seen measurements of sealed and ported subs go both ways. So be careful of believing when people say sealed subs are better for music and ported subs are better for movies. From what I've seen measured, that's just a myth.

Also, unless you are driving a speaker/sub close to its limits, things like port velocity or distortion or changes to the frequency response don't really happen, from what I've seen measured. In other words, I would suspect your existing ported subs are just fine for music since you're probably listening to music at around 70dB.

**Huck** · **10-01-06, 03:42 PM**

Quote:

Josuah wrote:

Transient response is also called group delay, if I've been paying attention correctly. If you have a group delay that is less than the cycle time of your frequency (e.g. 50ms at 20Hz) then I believe the subwoofer is "fast" enough. I'm not sure if I'm 100% correct here. We need a sub expert.

But anyway, ported subs are not necessarily worse than sealed subs with regards to group delay. I've seen measurements of sealed and ported subs go both ways. So be careful of believing when people say sealed subs are better for music and ported subs are better for movies. From what I've seen measured, that's just a myth.

Also, unless you are driving a speaker/sub close to its limits, things like port velocity or distortion or changes to the frequency response don't really happen, from what I've seen measured. In other words, I would suspect your existing ported subs are just fine for music since you're probably listening to music at around 70dB.

Thanks! Huck

**Danny** · **10-06-06, 08:47 AM**

For music i think you'll need a sub that will give you clear bass at high SPL's, maybe go round and have a listen to a few models

**Exocer** · **10-06-06, 08:01 PM**

I'd give the Super 8" some serious thought.
http://www.orbaudio.com/index.asp?Pa...on=Custom&ID=8

I am debating DIYing something similar for my computer speakers (NHT SB-2's) which don't have enough bass on their own for my listening habits.

**Chrisbee** · **10-07-06, 03:32 AM**

I cannot understand why you can't use your SVS for music?

I bought a 16-46 just for listening to music. I used it for two years and my wife still prefers it for her rock muic over my 4 x 15" IB!

The room is the most important factor where subs are concerned.

Turn the sub gain down until you can no longer hear the sub on an ordinary pop CD.

Then fine tune it until you find the sweet spot on the gain control.

Pulling the sub out from a corner but still between the speakers will tighten up your bass beautifully. You won't lose the valuable, low distortion headroom the cylinders offer. Small subs won't offer a fraction of the cylinder's perfomance. Why downgrade for music?

Remember that sub's don't know what they are reproducing. Films are full of superbly recorded music. Does that music really sound bad to you?

**Huck** · **10-07-06, 08:37 AM**

Quote:

Chrisbee wrote:

I cannot understand why you can't use your SVS for music?

I bought a 16-46 just for listening to music. I used it for two years and my wife still prefers it for her rock muic over my 4 x 15" IB!

The room is the most important factor where subs are concerned.

Turn the sub gain down until you can no longer hear the sub on an ordinary pop CD.

Then fine tune it until you find the sweet spot on the gain control.

Pulling the sub out from a corner but still between the speakers will tighten up your bass beautifully. You won't lose the valuable, low distortion headroom the cylinders offer. Small subs won't offer a fraction of the cylinder's perfomance. Why downgrade for music?

Remember that sub's don't know what they are reproducing. Films are full of superbly recorded music. Does that music really sound bad to you?

Hi: I will be trying my 20-39PC-Plus for music as soon as I acquire a proper controller!I am looking at the Paeadigm X-30 subwoofer controller. Thanks to all who replied! Huck

**Wayne A. Pflughaupt** · **10-09-06, 02:28 PM**

Huck,

I have to wonder, what does your sub’s response look like? I assume like most of us here you’re using a BFD to smooth response? That’s a step in the right direction, but a couple of years ago when I was evaluating the SVS PB10-ISD, I discovered that strong output in the ultra-low frequencies can destroy low frequency detail, which I directly relate to musicality.

If you haven’t already, try shelving response below 30 Hz or so. You might find things improve even more if, in addition, you roll out response below about 25 Hz. I’m still ironing out the details to this theory, but it’s certainly worth looking into before you spring for a second sub. It will be easy to set up a second program for this with a BFD.

For more details, check my sub review. Scroll down to the Summation section of the “Subjective Listening Evaluation” post.

Regards,
Wayne

**Huck** · **10-09-06, 03:30 PM**

Wayne: I do have my room's response plotted somewhere on my computer, but I will have to find it and also I will have to familiarize myself with the BFD, as I have not played with it for about 2 years! I am using the BFD-Pro with 8 filters for movies and I will try my existing sub(SVS 20-39 PC-Plus) for music once I acquire a controller and I will have to do another graph, once I re-do my listening area! Regards, Huck

**Chrisbee** · **10-10-06, 05:48 AM**

My old PCI = Music website is back up again:

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/...ic/index.jhtml

I had massive room gain from my 16-46 (+30dB @ 15Hz!) but never felt the bass was too heavy or ever considered a BFD to do anything about it. The sub gain had a sweet spot that I left it on for all kinds of music. I added a few dB extra for films.

Here's the response at the listening position without the speakers.

**khellandros66** · **10-10-06, 06:05 PM**

Quote:

Huck wrote:

I think larger drivers are perfect for trolling deep for movies, but I think that tend to be a little "loose" with music and the smaller drivers are a little faster! I will keep looking! Thanks,Huck

So not true...

Ever listen to the Paradigm Servo 15 or Triads InRoom Platinum 18in Sub. Some of the best sealed subs I have heard.

You should looke to go DIY with the new Rythmik Servo kit and 3cu^ft enclosure. Monster performer from what Exocer says.

Also take a look at my sig, the thread on building my 12in Dayton RSS315-HF. Using a 1.15cu^ft sealed with a 500w PE BASH amp. I get some teeth rattling bass during music.

~Bob

**MACCA350** · **10-11-06, 04:43 AM**

Quote:

khellandros66 wrote:

So not true...

Ever listen to the Paradigm Servo 15 or Triads InRoom Platinum 18in Sub. Some of the best sealed subs I have heard.

You should looke to go DIY with the new Rythmik Servo kit and 3cu^ft enclosure. Monster performer from what Exocer says.

Also take a look at my sig, the thread on building my 12in Dayton RSS315-HF. Using a 1.15cu^ft sealed with a 500w PE BASH amp. I get some teeth rattling bass during music.

~Bob

Or a Velodyne DD15

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