Which is better? eD, HSU or SVS

**kennypc** · **09-06-09, 10:45 PM**

I,m in the process of purchasing a new sub, .. which do guys think is the best for 500.00 there are so many choices how is one to decide?

**tonyvdb** · **09-06-09, 10:59 PM**

Welcome to the Shack Kenny,

I personally own an SVS sub and think they make a great product for the money you wont find anything better.
The PB10 or PB12 NSD are a great value.

**Rancho5** · **09-07-09, 11:30 PM**

Quote:

tonyvdb wrote:

Welcome to the Shack Kenny,

I personally own an SVS sub and think they make a great product for the money you wont find anything better.
The PB10 or PB12 NSD are a great value.

What he said...seriously.

**kennypc** · **09-07-09, 11:37 PM**

Thankyou very much, I will most defineatley consider that model

**kennypc** · **09-07-09, 11:42 PM**

what do you think about elemental designs?

**dradius** · **09-08-09, 10:02 AM**

I've never owned a hsu or svs so I can't compare them. But, I did buy an elemental designs a5-350 and liked it so much I ended up buying 2 18"s from eD and building some DIY subs. Their prices have gone up, but they are still a pretty good bang for the buck internet direct company.

**kennypc** · **09-10-09, 01:32 AM**

can a polk psw 111 8" sub work with a elemental design sub A3 250 10" inch sub connected to a Harmon Kardon receiver?

**GregBe** · **09-12-09, 03:13 PM**

I have the PB10 and love it, but I am pretty sure the eD subs in its price range are pretty comparable. Can't go wrong either way.

**Jon Liu** · **09-12-09, 05:33 PM**

I've owned three iterations of SVS products, 20-39PCi, PC-Ultra (TV-12), & PB13-Ultra, and can say that they are truly worth their money.

That's not to discount the other companies either. I've heard an eD sub as well as several Hsu Research subs and can also say they are fantastic bargains for what you pay. All of their subs are top notch performers and are certainly worthy contenders.

So, whichever company you go with, I think you'll be pleased! Also, I think any of them would a worthwhile upgrade over your Polk. I originally had a Polk PSW-650, which I thought was an amazing sub, that is until I received my first SVS, the 20-39PCi. There really was no comparison. Low frequency depth-wise the SVS beat it in spades.

**graphicguy** · **09-14-09, 02:06 PM**

Might want to take a look at Epik Subwoofers. For $100 more (their Vanquish is on sale now for $600). They sound very good. Designs are great. Performance is as good as any of the other Internet Direct brands (in some ways, they're better). And, they have a rock solid customer service reputation.

BTW....I might be a bit biased, as I own one of their 18" behemoths....a Phoenix. But, I've also owned a HSU VTF2 and a VTF3, as well as an AV123 MFW 15 to compare the Epik to.

**Jon Liu** · **09-14-09, 02:46 PM**

Graphic guy is right. Epik is yet another contender to look at! I heard a Conquest relatively recently and that was very impressive, too.

**Picture_Shooter** · **09-16-09, 09:16 PM**

How about a MFW-15?

**Jon Liu** · **09-16-09, 11:16 PM**

The MFW-15 is a good subwoofer, though it's production has had A LOT of issues, mostly with the amplifier.

They were an incredible bargain when they first came out, but their prices has been raised a couple of hundred dollars since then. They still are great for the money even at the current price point.

I've heard a dual MFW-15 set up before and while they were very impressive, they didn't quite stack up to the quality of the PB13-Ultra that I owned at the time. They had slight more output, but did not dig quite as deep as even a single PB13-Ultra.

**graphicguy** · **09-17-09, 08:15 AM**

Another MFW 15 owner (along with an Epik Phoenix). Jon pretty much hit the nail on the head. Depending on finish, they (now) sell for around $600 for the satin black finish. The veneers (which are beautiful) sell for around $700. I've got a diamond cherry one. Drop dead gorgeous.

Also as Jon pointed out, there was an issue with a run of their amplifiers that came from China which proved to be problematic. I think they are now building the amp boards here in the U.S. for the last few months, however. From all reports, this amp is much more reliable, and some report it performs better, too.

I won't compare in either SPL, nor the ability to reach as low as my Phoenix. But, the Phoenix costs about $400 more. And, it's not offered in any of the nice finishes (satin black only).

My previous subs were a HSU VTF2 and a HSU VTF3. The MFW outperforms those subs.

I haven't done measurements for awhile, but in room response in my HT, the MFW went down to about 15-16Hz before rolling off. It's also offers a nice blend of musicality, and movie slam.

Mine was one of the ones that had to be replaced. I've still got one, brand new, still sitting in its box, that they sent to replace my "bad one".

I'm trying to decide whether to do some major HT shifting to fit it in with my Phoenix, or to sell it.

All-in-all, it's a really good sub for the money, since the amps have been redesigned.

**Jon Liu** · **09-17-09, 11:18 AM**

graphicguy, thanks for the further information on the MFW-15 as well as the Epik Phoenix.

I was one who used to not care about the finish of the subwoofer as it was usually placed out of sight, somewhat. That all changed when I finally got the PB13-Ultra, though. I decided to get it in the Rosenut color and once I saw that, I decided I would have a hard time going back to a textured black, industrial-grade look, especially if there was an option.

Picture_Shooter, as you can see there are PLENTY of options to choose from for subwoofers. All the ones mentioned or suggested will likely give you BIG grin on your face. It will now likely come down to your individual preferences and usage.

**graphicguy** · **09-17-09, 12:03 PM**

Jon....as you're aware, there was lots of drama regarding the MFW and the different iterations of finish availability, and amp issues. Based on what Mark Schifter (president of AV123) posted, I think AV123 did get into some financial troubles towards the end of last year, and earlier this year. Plus, from what he posted, he had some physical troubles that added to that.

It's not like they were the only AV company who was hit hard from our current financial malaise. There's plenty of them. That doesn't mean that everything is hunky dory. But, from all external reports, it sounds like AV123 is climbing out of their financial bind. I've had the pleasure of speaking to Mark Schifter several times during the MFW woes. He's an engaging man. He's also very knowledgeable about audio (as you would expect). So is Chad Kuypers at Epik.

My main HT room uses all Rocket speakers from AV123. They are beautiful to look at. That's only eclipsed by their performance. The MFW purchase and subsequent issues wasn't nearly as pleasing.

However, I can't say that I was left holding the bag on my MFW. AV123 did indeed step to the plate. First, they thought it was an amp issue, and sent me a new one. Then, they thought it was a driver issue, so they replaced the driver. Finally, they just replaced the entire "old" MFW with a new one. So, I have no complaints on that side of things.

Bottom line, I'm pleased with the way things went with both my MFW-15 and my Epik Phoenix. I don't need two subs (although most think I should employ both of them). The MFW will be the one I sell.

**Jon Liu** · **09-17-09, 01:48 PM**

Yep, I remember that ordeal very well. Frustrating even for non-MFW customers. My LS-9's got put on back burner a couple times because of the amp issues with the MFW. Glad that they took care of you, regardless. I'm glad that the Phoenix is working out so well for you as well!

**graphicguy** · **09-17-09, 02:03 PM**

Jon....yeah I heard about the LS9 deal, too. I wasn't a part of that. But, I could certainly understand the general feelings with that product's delays. I've only seen pictures, but those look like some very serious speakers, and sporting very serious good looks. Hope you're enjoying yours.

My Epik Phoenix is good. I like it a lot.

There are a lot of really good products in the ID world. I mentioned in another thread that it's been a year since I even bought anything AV related (aside from BDs at BB) from a brick and mortar store. Even with BDs, I'm increasingly buying those from Amazon.

**Jon Liu** · **09-17-09, 02:34 PM**

Cutting out the middle man really saves on costs. I always am curious what things might cost from the internet direct realm if they were sold in brick and mortar stores.

**graphicguy** · **09-17-09, 05:23 PM**

Quote:

Jon Liu wrote:

Cutting out the middle man really saves on costs. I always am curious what things might cost from the internet direct realm if they were sold in brick and mortar stores.

Jon....I've often wondered that myself. Would the per unit cost be 2X? Even 3X? if an ID company tried to market their wares through a brick and mortar establishment? While I'm only on the periphery of the AV biz, I'm headlong in the deep end of the CE market.

In addition to adding another layer of "middle men" eating away margin any SKU can be sold for. It's maintaining a distribution network. It's managing inventory flow. It's chargebacks for goods that aren't sold at the "end of life" of any particular SKU. It's the costs associated with getting the retailer to give you visibility (yes, they charge for that). Most retailers won't run sales on their own. They expect the manufacturer to put some (many times, all) the monies associated with a sale to move goods. It's the associated costs involved that causes margins to get really skinny.

I know HSU tried this a few years back. You could actually buy some HSU products at CompUSA (now defunct, of course). Dr. HSU pulled out of that arrangement pretty quickly. If you don't know how to handle going through distributors, and then to retail shelves, it can be a real eye-opener.

For the OP, here's a link done by Craig Chase, owner of Tweak City Audio (small, start up audio company). Before he started manufacturing his own speakers and amps, he was a true subwoofer enthusiast. He actually bought (with his own money) subwoofers from many companies. Then, had a blind test to rate them.

It's a little long in the tooth. And, many products listed are no longer available, but it's a handy guide for people looking to get a little glimpse at how some subs (and their manufacturer's) rate.

http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11

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