SVS or Fathom F113?

**getech** · **01-22-07, 05:05 PM**

I am trying to decide if I should sell my SVS Plus 2 sub and go with a JL Audio Fathom F113. Does anyone have an opinion whether I would get a big "boost" in performance switching?

Thanks!

**Sonnie** · **01-22-07, 07:55 PM**

There's a pretty good discussion going on about that in this thread, although not specific to your question, it might help you decide.

Keep in mind you are comparing a $3300 sub to a $1300 sub... not hardly a fair comparison. Personally I would totally expect the Fathom to outperform the SVS Plus/2 for that price difference. I'd be one upset dude if I bought one and it didn't.

I'd keep the SVS ...OR... save a bunch of money and buy another SVS. I cannot imagine it being worth 2-3 times the cost of the SVS.

**kramskoi** · **01-23-07, 12:18 AM**

Quote:

getech wrote:

I am trying to decide if I should sell my SVS Plus 2 sub and go with a JL Audio Fathom F113. Does anyone have an opinion whether I would get a big "boost" in performance switching?

Thanks!

like Sonnie said...it may not be worth the price (i don't totally disagree)...IMO it offers a no nonsense uber-solution for persons who are'nt comfortable with DIY...here the road diverges...DIY'ers (like myself) could take the cost of the fathom and fashion something incredible...however there are those that think that mfg have the edge with expertise and sota modeling software, not to mention the engineering experience...the belief, among these individuals, is that DIY can't achieve comparable levels of performance...but...DIY'ers are'nt afraid to take raw materials and convert them into something "personalized" for their individual space...which no commercial sub can do with the same degree of accuracy.

That said, JL audio has hit the mark with the f113...the consensus is that SVS is not in the same league in rendering the level of detail that the Fathom does...using a sealed alignment with a 4" peak-peak excursion envelope largely negates the output advantage of the dual vented SVS subs...with the displacement of a typical 15" driver, the Fathom can belt out some serious spl and do it with detail and slam...it has the displacement and it has the power.

Craigsub's reviews put the f113 above even the DD-18 from Velodyne, a fact that, for some, is hard to "fathom"...i'd personally enjoy the opportunity to A-B them myself

I can tell you that i've seen this coming...with the advent of super drivers from TC Sounds and Adire Audio...the commercial world is only now finding out what DIYers have known for some time...the sealed alignment is'nt the ugly duckling anymore...with linear motor topologies, linkwitz transform and cheap power, the sealed sub is closing the gap on its vented bretheren...it is no wonder that SVS is raising the ante' with the introduction of their new 13" drivers...the writing is on the wall.

The question becomes what is an acceptable price to pay for the quality and detail of such a subwoofer...for some it will indeed prove to be cost prohibitive...that does'nt mean that uncompromising persons won't sell their souls to procure one...or two for that matter

My advice is to demo a fathom and decide for yourself is it's worth the price...only way you'll truly know...good luck.

**MrPorterhouse** · **01-23-07, 08:04 AM**

If I could afford a JL Audio sub of any type, I'd buy one. I've always loved their car audio subs and was amazed at how much output and extension I could get out of the JL 8" subs. Home theater is a different beast, but those JL Audio subs are beautiful, solid, and a showpiece of engineering. They are not value items, thats for sure. SVS is a value leader. On a pure performance level, you'd have to do A/B comparisons, but , I'd still take the JL audio just because it would be like having a Ferrari where you don't care if it is the fastest...its a Ferrari.

**Exocer** · **01-24-07, 12:15 AM**

Quote:

kramskoi wrote:

like Sonnie said...it may not be worth the price (i don't totally disagree)...IMO it offers a no nonsense uber-solution for persons who are'nt comfortable with DIY...here the road diverges...DIY'ers (like myself) could take the cost of the fathom and fashion something incredible...however there are those that think that mfg have the edge with expertise and sota modeling software, not to mention the engineering experience...the belief, among these individuals, is that DIY can't achieve comparable levels of performance...but...DIY'ers are'nt afraid to take raw materials and convert them into something "personalized" for their individual space...which no commercial sub can do with the same degree of accuracy.

That said, JL audio has hit the mark with the f113...the consensus is that SVS is not in the same league in rendering the level of detail that the Fathom does...using a sealed alignment with a 4" peak-peak excursion envelope largely negates the output advantage of the dual vented SVS subs...with the displacement of a typical 15" driver, the Fathom can belt out some serious spl and do it with detail and slam...it has the displacement and it has the power.

Craigsub's reviews put the f113 above even the DD-18 from Velodyne, a fact that, for some, is hard to "fathom"...i'd personally enjoy the opportunity to A-B them myself

I can tell you that i've seen this coming...with the advent of super drivers from TC Sounds and Adire Audio...the commercial world is only now finding out what DIYers have known for some time...the sealed alignment is'nt the ugly duckling anymore...with linear motor topologies, linkwitz transform and cheap power, the sealed sub is closing the gap on its vented bretheren...it is no wonder that SVS is raising the ante' with the introduction of their new 13" drivers...the writing is on the wall.

The question becomes what is an acceptable price to pay for the quality and detail of such a subwoofer...for some it will indeed prove to be cost prohibitive...that does'nt mean that uncompromising persons won't sell their souls to procure one...or two for that matter

My advice is to demo a fathom and decide for yourself is it's worth the price...only way you'll truly know...good luck.

Well said champ

**getech** · **01-24-07, 01:58 PM**

Thanks all of you for some great feedback on the Fathom F113 vs. SVS subs....

JL Audio is promoting their Fathom line by declaring that for peak performance, you have to use TWO of their subs at a minimum to get the best possible dispersion and sound quality. They have suggested that irregardless of other claims, if you have just one sub on one side of your home theater, the pressure will be originating from that one side. To balance it out, they are suggested at least two of their F113's. Quite an investment however!

**Exocer** · **01-25-07, 12:26 AM**

Well, having one sub in each corner definitely does even out the bass sound if and only if your in-room frequency response is peaky, it'll also add another 3db of headroom accross the FR range. It really depends on the effect your room has on frequency response if having two subs is worth it. Buying 1 Fathom and pairing it with an SMS-1 would be a cheaper route to getting an even bass sound.

**02-07-07, 03:31 PM**

doesn anyone know the current msrp of the f112 and f113?

I"m told that the f112 in satin finish is now 2600? and 100 more for gloss.

i think original msrp when it first came out was 2200 and 2400?

**Wayne A. Pflughaupt** · **02-08-07, 12:11 PM**

Quote:

getech wrote:

I am trying to decide if I should sell my SVS Plus 2 sub and go with a JL Audio Fathom F113. Does anyone have an opinion whether I would get a big "boost" in performance switching?

Thanks!

Here’s a review of the JL Fathom. The reviewer claims it outperforms the SVS PB12-Plus/2. That’s quite a feat, because that SVS is the most amazing, detailed sub I’ve ever heard.

Regards,
Wayne

**Sonnie** · **02-08-07, 03:56 PM**

Quote:

Wayne A. Pflughaupt wrote:

That’s quite a feat, because that SVS is the most amazing, detailed sub I’ve ever heard.

So you've actually heard one (or two)...

It does make me wonder why we might would spend that much more knowing that you could get as good at the PB12-Plus/2 for so much less $$$... but hey.... if I had it I might be

**NO1B4ME** · **02-09-07, 05:45 PM**

Quote:

Sonnie wrote:

So you've actually heard one (or two)...

It does make me wonder why we might would spend that much more knowing that you could get as good at the PB12-Plus/2 for so much less $$$... but hey.... if I had it I might be

LOL, I just got back form a demo local to me of both Fathoms F112 and F113. Those subs are UNREAL. Side by side against the Velodyne it was close. The BASS was gut wrenching, like someone was hitting me with a baseball bat in the stomach. Now i gotta stomach the submission price of one

.... Come on bonus.

My friend has the SVS and it doesn't even compare to the JL's. They take the cake, but **** they better for the price.

**Sonnie** · **02-09-07, 06:18 PM**

Quote:

NO1B4ME wrote:

My friend has the SVS and it doesn't even compare to the JL's. They take the cake, but they better for the price.

That's a pretty broad statement. I believe to quantify that you would need to have both subs side by side, then you would need to have the best that SVS makes. As far as gut wrenching, I doubt you'd notice much difference listening at the same normal levels. Plus, I'm not anyone wants anything that makes them feel like a baseball bat hitting them in the stomach.

Come to my house with my pair of SVS PB12-Plus/2's and I'll show ya some gut wrenching and teeth shattering bass if that's what you want... it just doesn't get much better, maybe a tad cleaner, but not much meaner.

**mike c** · **02-09-07, 06:22 PM**

"my friend has the SVS ..."

indicates that you listened to the subwoofers in different environments.
not really a fair comparison.

**02-22-07, 05:14 PM**

I haven't heard any of the SVS subs, so I can't say which is better. I can tell you that the jl f113 is incredible. I bought one last tuesday, gloss finish for $2,449.

**mike c** · **02-25-07, 07:57 AM**

I haven't heard the SVS's too. but for HT use, I would definitely recommend the SVS simply because they're cheaper. you don't need "audiophile" grade subwoofers for BOOMS and BANGS. what you need is REW+BFD or the Velodyne SMS-1.

let's see:

700-800 bucks for the SMS-1 (or a lot cheaper for the REW and BFD combo)
1800 bucks for dual 20-39 PC plus (one placed nearfield, one placed up front ... or both nearfield)

**01-16-08, 08:36 AM**

I think f-113s have a list price of $3,500.
I own two of them. Bought the first one and then realized that I needed a second one to eliminate the localized sound of just one sub. The second one took care of that. I LOVE these two subs.

Roc Rinaldi
6,400 watt; 7.1 surround with 7 floor standing Klipsch speakers and 2 f-113 subs; McIntosh power and processing

**warpdrive** · **01-16-08, 08:30 PM**

If I could afford the JL Audio, I would buy one in a heartbeat. It's a high end sub in every way, and I doubt that I would need any more performance than that. And I just like the size better, it's suits my sensibilities that audio equipment shouldn't dominate the room. No ugly speckled black refrigerator sized Epik or eD subs for me.

With all due respect to Craigsub, you really should listen for yourself to decide. One man's 80 point sub may be another man's 60 point sub.

**bricor** · **01-18-08, 02:46 PM**

I have a F113 and it is an amazing piece of engineering. But that price....

I want 2 subs and can't stomach the cost of a 2nd F113 so I have a pair of Epik Towers on order now. I think that is about as big as I can stomach.

**mazersteven** · **01-18-08, 03:37 PM**

Quote:

getech wrote:

Thanks all of you for some great feedback on the Fathom F113 vs. SVS subs....

JL Audio is promoting their Fathom line by declaring that for peak performance, you have to use TWO of their subs at a minimum to get the best possible dispersion and sound quality. They have suggested that irregardless of other claims, if you have just one sub on one side of your home theater, the pressure will be originating from that one side. To balance it out, they are suggested at least two of their F113's. Quite an investment however!

Have you thought about up-grading to the SVS PB13-Ultra? I hear the PB13-Ultra puts up some excellent performance numbers vs. the Fathom F113. I'm not saying it out performs it. But saying that the law of diminishing returns isn't as great as with the PB12-Plus/2. It's also half the cost of the Fathom.

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-pb13ultra.cfm

**mike c** · **01-18-08, 05:46 PM**

Quote:

mazersteven wrote:

Have you thought about up-grading to the SVS PB13-Ultra? I hear the PB13-Ultra puts up some excellent performance numbers vs. the Fathom F113. I'm not saying it out performs it. But saying that the law of diminishing returns isn't as great as with the PB12-Plus/2. It's also half the cost of the Fathom.

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-pb13ultra.cfm

actually he has (check the date of the OP)

he has been converted from someone trying to sell F113's to someone who's singing praises for the PB13Ultra!

**mazersteven** · **01-18-08, 06:27 PM**

Quote:

mike c wrote:

actually he has (check the date of the OP)

he has been converted from someone trying to sell F113's to someone who's singing praises for the PB13Ultra!

Maybe I missed it. But I only read 1 reference to the Ultra in this thread.

**mike c** · **01-18-08, 06:36 PM**

Quote:

mazersteven wrote:

Maybe I missed it. But I only read 1 reference to the Ultra in this thread.

sorry, he's a poster at AVS.

during the time of the OP, he has been making threads like this to bait people to say that the F113 was the greatest (or to create discussion on the F113) e.g. F113 vs. earthquake subs on AVS

his first few posts were mostly singing praises of F113 when later it was discovered he was selling F113's. later on, he switched his song and started praising the ultras ... he must have been kicked off the JL team (if he even was on it)

**weeZ** · **01-19-08, 07:09 AM**

Back in December I took my PBs to a friend's dedicated room who had dual F113 for an afternoon of comparisons. We started off with the PBs, (let me say they sound totally different in a controlled environment) using the usual material, Pulse, WotW, Transformers and T3. In the 20Hz tune, to me the calibration seemed too hot for the 13s or maybe in was the enclosed room? The JL's had a more detailed sound, and the PBs had more impact you could feel across the room.

Next was a sealed vs sealed. The ultras sounded completely different, and the consensus was that everyone liked the sound better than wide open. Hard to explain, but it sounded smoother? Not sure if that's the right description but it was nice! In sealed mode the ultras sound pretty close to the F113s, but I think the the later edged ahead due to more power. Music was great! JL was the clear winner with music, but did it sound $3900(retail) better?

When I brought the ultras home I tried them sealed and in my cavernous space they sounded anemic. With all ports plugged there was just not enough pressure to fill the room, I would guess the JLs would be similar.

**mazersteven** · **01-19-08, 09:31 AM**

Keith,

Thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts, and pictures. Excellent.

**thxgoon** · **01-19-08, 04:27 PM**

Quote:

mike c wrote:

sorry, he's a poster at AVS.

during the time of the OP, he has been making threads like this to bait people to say that the F113 was the greatest (or to create discussion on the F113) e.g. F113 vs. earthquake subs on AVS

his first few posts were mostly singing praises of F113 when later it was discovered he was selling F113's. later on, he switched his song and started praising the ultras ... he must have been kicked off the JL team (if he even was on it)

it's no wonder why people don't trust salesmen...

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