Discuss Epik Empire or SVS PB12-Plus in the Manufactured Speakers | Subwoofers forum.
For your viewing pleasure (it'll give you a good idea of what to expect):...

**Nuance** · **02-16-12, 02:12 PM**

For your viewing pleasure (it'll give you a good idea of what to expect):

**bambino** · **02-16-12, 08:35 PM**

Quote:

tesseract wrote:

I have looked at the Epik stamped steel baskets and the amp. They have been using that amp for years. You really cannot tell anything by looking, listening and measurements tell the story.

Not to start an argument but maybe my eyes are different then yours, a cast basket is obviously more solid and better built ( depending on the company) and the amp is all new with better tecnology.

Can't say anymore then go for the SVS unless your looking at price then go for the other.

**tesseract** · **02-16-12, 08:53 PM**

Driver looks and new technology is nice, but doesn't tell us how a sub sounds. I am sure the PB12 is a great sub. But we shouldn't discount the Empire on looks alone.

Stamped steel baskets are shaped to be very strong, resisting flex in the plane of the driver's motion. Cast baskets, especially in mid to entry level subs, are a good marketing move but not necessary to reign in a driver with average Xmax. I remember when JL Audio used only stamped steel baskets in their car audio products.

Stamped steel in the Empire's case gives it another important advantage. It allows for two drivers at a lower cost. Two 15" drivers have the same cone area as a single 21" driver. This addition surface area will affect the sound much more than the basket will.

Amplifiers haven't changed much over the last 40 years. I would expect any small audible differences between the two amps to be completely over shadowed by the lower distortion of two large drivers moving massive amounts of air effortlessly in comparison to a single 12".

One more matter to consider. Resonance is another source of distortion. The dual opposed nature cancels out box vibration. Mark Seaton had me place my hand on his SubMersive HP while it was pounding near it's limits. There was absolutely no vibration at all. It was a weird experience!

**ulalazavod** · **02-23-12, 01:32 AM**

Hy! I am new here. I here the Epic and the SVS. The SVS has much more dynymic. He play depper and cleaner as the Empire.

**Nuance** · **02-23-12, 09:34 AM**

Quote:

ulalazavod wrote:

The SVS has much more dynymic. He play depper and cleaner as the Empire.

Actually, with room gain the Epik might very well play "deeper," and it's also more "dynamic" above 40Hz. With that said, I'd still take the PB12-PLUS.

**DrFunk** · **02-25-12, 07:47 AM**

Also, if anyone looks at the chart linked to above in this page, the Empire plays louder than the PB12-NSD in all frequencies and plays lower. There have also been several shootout threads on AVS forum that have the Empire in it vs other big boys and it holds its own.

**E-A-G-L-E-S** · **02-25-12, 09:15 AM**

Quote:

DrFunk wrote:

Also, if anyone looks at the chart linked to above in this page, the Empire plays louder than the PB12-NSD in all frequencies and plays lower. There have also been several shootout threads on AVS forum that have the Empire in it vs other big boys and it holds its own.

Except for ~20Hz. Not sure of distortion levels regarding the two.

**tesseract** · **02-25-12, 11:02 AM**

Quote:

E-A-G-L-E-S wrote:

Except for ~20Hz. Not sure of distortion levels regarding the two.

Sealed subs roll off sooner than ported subs do when measured outdoors. In room gain (which I break down into pressure vessel gain and boundary reinforcement) and EQ makes up the difference, and can even give a properly integrated sealed sub the advantage.

Sealed subs dig deeper than ported subs do, as ported subs roll off very rapidly under port tune, something you DO NOT want to try and compensate for with EQ. To the contrary, a high pass filter is generally needed to avoid bottoming the driver.

I would expect the distortion level of dual opposed 15" drivers to be less than a single 12" at reference level listening.

**E-A-G-L-E-S** · **02-25-12, 11:18 AM**

Sounds like a deal then...

**tesseract** · **02-26-12, 01:38 PM**

Both are great subs, I am sure. It is simply application dependent. Sealed room, sealed subs. Open floor plan, ported subs.

Quote:

tesseract wrote:

I have not listened to either one as of yet. I would recommend the ported PB12, it should play louder around 20-25 Hz if your room is open to other rooms. The Empire would do very well in a sealed room, possibly digging deeper than the PB12. Hope this helps.