SVS PB12NSD vs Outlaw LFM-EX

**rrpete49** · **12-28-07, 12:05 AM**

svs@$599 or outlaw@$549 ? I`ve read nothing but good reviews here for svs subs but I haven`t seen many comments on this outlaw sub. I`m getting ready to pull the trigger any advice would be greatly appreciated.Thanks Pete

**MrPorterhouse** · **12-29-07, 11:09 PM**

I have no experience with the Outlaw, but I do with SVS. I've got the older and litteler brother to the PB12-NSD, the PB10-isd. That sucker just explodes awesomeness. It packs a nice punch, extends low and is also very good with music. I would love to have the PB12-NSD and at $600, it is just an insane value. The Outlaw looks good too, though. I doubt you'll go wrong either way.

**Sonnie** · **12-30-07, 12:42 AM**

We might have a few more SVS biased around here...

I've not heard much from Outlaw myself, but I know SVS is well accepted as one of the best bang for the buck subs available, if not the best.

**Picture_Shooter** · **12-30-07, 01:38 AM**

From what I read, Dr. HSU help design these Outlaw subs

**warpdrive** · **12-30-07, 01:21 PM**

As much as I like SVS products, I'd prefer the Outlaw in this case. More room friendly box, nicer cabinet, down firing for flexibility. I think at this price, the Outlaw just has a more "musical" sound. Now if you were to go up towards the PB12Plus, then the SVS is more preferable to me.

**mazersteven** · **12-30-07, 04:10 PM**

Quote:

warpdrive wrote:

As much as I like SVS products, I'd prefer the Outlaw in this case. More room friendly box, nicer cabinet, down firing for flexibility. I think at this price, the Outlaw just has a more "musical" sound. Now if you were to go up towards the PB12Plus, then the SVS is more preferable to me.

Nicer cabinet on the Outlaw?

"Down firing for flexibility". I don't think this makes a great difference. IMO

**rrpete49** · **12-30-07, 04:56 PM**

Mr P what size room are you using the sub in?

**mazersteven** · **12-30-07, 05:00 PM**

Quote:

rrpete49 wrote:

Mr P what size room are you using the sub in?

Mr. P's room is 19x12x8.

**rrpete49** · **12-30-07, 05:07 PM**

Sonnie the bias is not just here. Today I registered my Polk Surround bar and had the time to read some posts on their forum.These people are die hard Polk fans and there was a good amount of posters that listed SVS as their sub in spite of fact that Polk makes subs for all needs.
One thing I`ll mention is that last week I e-mailed SVS a diagram of my room and asked for recomendation. They answered within 24 hours and steered me away from the more expensive sub.Thats integrity. I e-mailed Polk asking to recommend an in-ceiling speaker to compliment the surroundbar on the same day,I`m still waiting.

**rrpete49** · **12-30-07, 05:40 PM**

Quote:

warpdrive wrote:

As much as I like SVS products, I'd prefer the Outlaw in this case. More room friendly box, nicer cabinet, down firing for flexibility. I think at this price, the Outlaw just has a more "musical" sound. Now if you were to go up towards the PB12Plus, then the SVS is more preferable to me.

I`m glad you brought this up. One thing that I started thinking about was a down firing sub.The outlaw has the ports facing down too while the PB12 Plus is down firing but the ports don`t face the bottom.One possible location for the sub in my room will be in the back of the room up against a wall and my question is would the svs placed with the ports facing up close to the walls work properly.
Also I could see where someone could make a case for the outlaw having a nicer cabinet. I`m only going by web site information having actually seen neither sub but the svs nsd comes in a black textured finish [ sounds like it`s more suited for dedicated home theater] while the Outlaw comes in black satin finish with glass top. The NSD is going to be a tough sell to occupy a high profile space in my living room. Now if I go with svs plus in rosenut or piano black there wont be a problem,until the $400 gets into the equation.
Have a great day, Pete

**warpdrive** · **12-30-07, 11:57 PM**

Quote:

mazersteven wrote:

Nicer cabinet on the Outlaw?

"Down firing for flexibility". I don't think this makes a great difference. IMO

Yes, the Outlaw cabinet is nicer. While the actual black satin finish isn't anything to write home about., it's got the clear glossy top which looks better than a plain black ugly box of the SVS PB12NSD. Due to the Outlaw's more tall slimmer appearance, if you put a lamp on it..it almost looks like a solid end table and because it don't have a grill that you can see, it doesn't look like a speaker. I'd be happy to use the Outlaw in plain view in my living room but not the SVS

And yes, the down firing configuration is better. With ports firing down, you have just a bit more fleixibility how you point the speaker. Since ports effectively produce sound, you have to be aware that you shouldn't have other objects blocking them. With kids around, a downfiring sub is far more kid friendly so can place the sub even where the kids normally play, they can bump into it all day long. I'd be more likely to want to put the SVS where kids can't accidentally jam their toys into the speaker. Therefore more flexiblity.

**MrPorterhouse** · **12-31-07, 02:43 AM**

Quote:

mazersteven wrote:

Mr. P's room is 19x12x8.

Yes, it is, but its an open floor plan on the first level, so that room has 3 huge openings. 1 that is open to the dining area, the other that is open to the kitchen. The dining/kitchen is all 1 room of about 12 x 30 x 8. The other opening is to the upstairs and upstairs hall way, which is huge. So the volume of air that the PB10-isd is working in is down right cavernous. I wouldn't say that the room gets pressurized, but the LFE's still slam you in the chest pretty good. I'm floored by what that PB10 can do. Out of all the subs that SVS makes, the PB10 is the most mind-boggeling.

**mazersteven** · **12-31-07, 08:08 AM**

Quote:

warpdrive wrote:

Yes, the Outlaw cabinet is nicer. While the actual black satin finish isn't anything to write home about., it's got the clear glossy top which looks better than a plain black ugly box of the SVS PB12NSD. Due to the Outlaw's more tall slimmer appearance, if you put a lamp on it..it almost looks like a solid end table and because it don't have a grill that you can see, it doesn't look like a speaker. I'd be happy to use the Outlaw in plain view in my living room but not the SVS

And yes, the down firing configuration is better. With ports firing down, you have just a bit more fleixibility how you point the speaker. Since ports effectively produce sound, you have to be aware that you shouldn't have other objects blocking them. With kids around, a downfiring sub is far more kid friendly so can place the sub even where the kids normally play, they can bump into it all day long. I'd be more likely to want to put the SVS where kids can't accidentally jam their toys into the speaker. Therefore more flexiblity.

OK I might give you that the appearance of the Outlaw in this scenario is nicer.

And I can see your point about kids, and toys. But that is it on that subject.

**jasenj1** · **12-31-07, 07:08 PM**

Quote:

warpdrive wrote:

With kids around, a downfiring sub is far more kid friendly so can place the sub even where the kids normally play, they can bump into it all day long. I'd be more likely to want to put the SVS where kids can't accidentally jam their toys into the speaker. Therefore more flexiblity.

Precisely the reason I just bought an Outlaw LFM-1 Compact. The "theater" is also the den/family room where the kiddo and friends play. That gave me a bias towards a sub without an easily crashed into cone or a port tempting to have cars, dolls, etc. put in it. Spec-wise, there were a number of good candidates, but I went with the Outlaw because of the all downward facing design.

- Jasen.

**Sonnie** · **01-01-08, 12:42 AM**

Quote:

warpdrive wrote:

With kids around, a downfiring sub is far more kid friendly so can place the sub even where the kids normally play, they can bump into it all day long. I'd be more likely to want to put the SVS where kids can't accidentally jam their toys into the speaker. Therefore more flexiblity.

I agree, with kids around, down firing subs would be more appropriate... but so would the black textured finish of the SVS over the glossy black of the Outlaw. That glossy black is going to show the scratches of those kids climbing all over it and begin to look ugly over time and really hurt resale value. I think the down firing textured finish wins over with kids in the house. That finish is polypropylene I believe... or whatever it is... it is extremely durable. The kids could jump up and down on it... slobber on it, spill drinks on it, dance on it, throw stones at it... they are practically invincible.

For the record... I own a pair of the PB12-Plus/2's both loaded in the front corners of my room with the ports up against the wall. Both of mine are tuned to 16Hz, so I'm pushing max air through one port and never an issue being against the wall.

And they are NOT ugly!

I've had a gloss black Velodyne HGS-15 and personally I like the black textured finish of the SVS better. It actually looks very nice. Now if you have black gloss speakers, black gloss display edges, etc., you might would want a black gloss sub to match.

**MrPorterhouse** · **01-01-08, 02:29 AM**

Quote:

Sonnie wrote:

I agree, with kids around, down firing subs would be more appropriate... but so would the black textured finish of the SVS over the glossy black of the Outlaw. That glossy black is going to show the scratches of those kids climbing all over it and begin to look ugly over time and really hurt resale value.

I suddenly have an idea to make a subwoofer bra, ya know, like the car bras that protect the finish from stone and rock chips. Same basic idea for the sub. Cover the outer surface in a durable leather that not only looks good, but protects the beautiful finish below. Hey, there could be a market for a product like that. Do they exist? Can I file for patent rights?

**mazersteven** · **01-01-08, 07:23 AM**

Quote:

Sonnie wrote:

I agree, with kids around, down firing subs would be more appropriate... but so would the black textured finish of the SVS over the glossy black of the Outlaw. That glossy black is going to show the scratches of those kids climbing all over it and begin to look ugly over time and really hurt resale value. I think the down firing textured finish wins over with kids in the house. That finish is polypropylene I believe... or whatever it is... it is extremely durable. The kids could jump up and down on it... slobber on it, spill drinks on it, dance on it, throw stones at it... they are practically invincible.

And they are NOT ugly!

huh:

Good Post Sonnie

I knew there was a argument there about "Flexibility", and "Nicer Cabinet".

**warpdrive** · **01-01-08, 08:23 PM**

Quote:

Sonnie wrote:

And they are NOT ugly!

I've had a gloss black Velodyne HGS-15 and personally I like the black textured finish of the SVS better. It actually looks very nice. Now if you have black gloss speakers, black gloss display edges, etc., you might would want a black gloss sub to match.

Let's just agree to disagree here. I had my money in hand and was ready to buy a PB12NSD and as soon as I saw the finish in person, I knew it wasn't going into my living room. Fortunately, SVS makes plenty of other models that do have nice finishes and I bought one of those instead. As for having kids around, I'd rather have kids shove their toys into the side of the Outlaw than the fragile cone of the SVS.

All I was saying is that the Outlaw is just the more WAF friendly box IMO. I like its shape better and the down firing configuration give me more options in placement and would work visually a LOT better in my room. No need to get out the

mazer

It's too bad the sale price of the Outlaw is ending soon because I really was considering adding one to my living room (bought too many other gadgets over the last month)

**mazersteven** · **01-01-08, 10:12 PM**

Quote:

warpdrive wrote:

No need to get out the

mazer

LOL

**dieselpower1966** · **01-02-08, 12:56 PM**

rrpete49.
here are a few of my favorite places to find info. give them a try for outlaw reviews

soundandvisionmag.com
ultimateavmag.com
hometheaterhifi.com
audioholics.com

dieselpower1966

**Bob_99** · **01-02-08, 01:35 PM**

I agree with what Sonnie wrote, except that it's not always the kids. I've run into a few adults who could use a course in proper behavior when they are a guest in someone's elses home.

Bob

**warpdrive** · **01-02-08, 02:42 PM**

Quote:

Bob_99 wrote:

I've run into a few adults who could use a course in proper behavior when they are a guest in someone's elses home.

For sure, I've had guests want to put their keys, drinks on the speaker cabinets, and push on the bass drivers with their fingers.

Too bad they can't make downfiring main speakers.

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