Best subwoofer for CD music only listening

[tlt418]

I would like to add a subwoofer to my stereo system for CD music only listening. My speakers are two Energy Veritas 2.3i (rated 35Hz-20KHz +/-3 db) driven by Bryston 4 SST power amp. The sound is excellent and the bass is very good. I like jazz, classical and some poprock musics. I have a large room 30'x14'x8' and I like music playing as loud as in concert hall (I don't know how many maximum decibels for this level, may be 105 db?).

First of all, I don't know if the sound from my system by adding a subwoofer will be greatly improved for the kind of music I'm listening to. If yes, I would like to have a well builded and finished one (ideally in piano black) that is not too big. I have budgeted this purchase from $1000 to $1500 maximum.

I looked the excellent subwoofer tests made by Ilkka and I compared the results with others reviews like those posted on avsforum.com (Official Craigsub rankings thread) and on http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/maste...ubwoofers.html.

I would like to receive recommandations from the community about the best subwoofer to fill my need.

Actually, my choice will be among these subwoofers: AV123 MFW-15, SVS PB12-Plus, SVS PB12-NSD, Hsu VTF-3 HO, EPIK Castle. If there is a big quality difference of these in comparing to the SVS13-Ultra, I will also think about this one (though it costs more than $2000 in Canada). As residents of Canada, we must pay very much for the shipping, duties and sales taxes.

Thank you very much.

PS. Please excuse me for my poor English.

[Mike P.]

If you would like to know what a sub cost that was bought in the U.S. here is a site that calculates how much it will be. It's reported to be fairly accurate.

http://www.thefinalcost.com/shipments/calculate/

[tonyvdb]

Hi Tony,

The SVS PB12-NSD would be more than enough for your needs and there is a Canadian distributer for SVS Sonic boom audio so you avoid the US boarder issues. The Bash amps used in SVS subs are manufactured right here in Canada.
Thats my recommendation as SVS is hands down one of the best sub manufacturers around and because they only sell online you avoid the price markup.
As far as music with a sub there is lots of CDs that have frequencies below 20hz. Having a sub also takes the load off the receiver.

[funky_waves]

FYI We are located in Canada, and can provide a very nice custom subwoofer to fit your needs. For example an SDX15 with biult in amplifier, in a sealed box, whatever shape you like, with a premium finish. Would fit in your budget, and needs, a custom SD12 subwoofer would likely fit your needs as well being less expensive.

[WmAx]

There is far more to getting a 'musical' integration of subs mixed into a system than the model of the sub.

If you have outboard amplifiers, I recommend using a Behringer DCX2496 to ideally integrate your subwoofer and mains. You must be able to feed your pre-amp out to the DCX input and then feed the DCX outputs to the main channel amplifiers and subwoofer(s).

Multiple subs(at least 2) are far more likely to integrate with seamless effect to the mains.

If you do not already have broadband bass traps, consider these in your budget.

Partsexpress.com has some very high quality kit subs composed of premium quality parts. All parts are finished/ready to assembly - just take you 30-45 minutes - and you will have a high quality subwoofer that would cost you at least 2x the price to buy from a popular brand name with equal quality/performance. Two of the 12" Dayton reference kits, used as stereo add on subs, combined with the DCX would radically increase the bottom octave performance of your stereo with no negative aspects. I recommend a crossover point of about 75Hz with a 4th order slope, to integrate the systems. Free up those Veritas mid-woofer to do only midbass and midrange, and the dynamic ability[while keeping clarity] of your speakers will increase substantially, assuming you have a sufficient power amp on the mains.

-Chris

[tlt418]

Hi Chris:

I like very much your suggestions. I estimated that two of the 12" Dayton reference kits ($500 each) and the Behringer DCX2496 ($300)will cost about $1300 plus shipping duties and taxes (for Canadians). It's within my budget. I'm also considering the AV123 MFW-15 ($600 each) which is very well tested (3rd rank as posted on avsforum.com - Official Craigsub rankings thread). I'm sure that the DCX equalizer is a must to have for seamless integration to my actual speakers.

I'd like to have information about the performance of the Dayton 12" Reference kit in comparing to the MFW-15 ?

For adjustment of the sound with the help of the equalizer, I will need a good microphone. What is your recommandation?

Thanks.

Tony L.

[mike c]

if you check the THD measurements and the FR linearity of the SVS PB13 Ultra (here at the shack), you'll see it's gonna be great for music.

[funky_waves]

If you can stretch your budget a bit, and want the best sounding subwoofer you may want to consider This Sub It will not have quite the output of a ported sub, but will equal or surpass most good 12" subs in output. Mated with your Energy Veritas 2.3i's and a good subwoofer amplifier, you would have an awesome sounding system.

The Tc Sounds LMS subwoofer drivers like the one used in this sub have proven to be the lowest distortion subwoofers avialable.

[imbeaujp]

Bonjour TLT418 !

Here is a link to a recent sub project I did : http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...-radiator.html

So if you are in Quebec City Aera and want to see the result, make some tests using Behringer product or RoomEQwizard software, just let me know !

JP

[WmAx]

tlt418 wrote:

Hi Chris:

I like very much your suggestions. I estimated that two of the 12" Dayton reference kits ($500 each) and the Behringer DCX2496 ($300)will cost about $1300 plus shipping duties and taxes (for Canadians). It's within my budget. I'm also considering the AV123 MFW-15 ($600 each) which is very well tested (3rd rank as posted on avsforum.com - Official Craigsub rankings thread). I'm sure that the DCX equalizer is a must to have for seamless integration to my actual speakers.

I'd like to have information about the performance of the Dayton 12" Reference kit in comparing to the MFW-15 ?

Unfortunately, no one has(that I know of) posted credible measurements demonstrating distortion vs. SPL for this driver. However, I recommend it based on the history of all previous RS Dayton drivers tested, test superbly, all so far having superbly linear motors. The RS driver has received nearly unanimous accolades in hi-fi use so far. The value of the driver, cabinet and amplifier is what I base the recommendation on. Of course, I support choosing any retail product that has been tested by Ilkka or the other tester with similar test procedures, that reveal superb performance for the dollars spent. I will tell you, the sub has leeway here; the key is the DSP system used(DCX2496) and proper set up of this system. I must reiterate that at minimum, dual subs should be used if you want the best integration for musical playback quality.

For adjustment of the sound with the help of the equalizer, I will need a good microphone. What is your recommendation?

For this type of set up, you only need a RS SPL meter and Room EQ Wizard(freeware). The generic calibration for the RS SPL meter will be close enough for this purpose. If you want to get into actual speaker design, then I would recommend a calibrated measurement microphone.

-Chris

[tlt418]

Hello JP:

I'm very impressed by your project and your equipments. May be I will start with the EQ and the software for tuning my actual system. It will be my first experience and I would like to obtain help from you and from other experts like Chris. There are many models of EQ I saw at Partsexpress.com. I don't know what is the best model for me. I think that the final sound will be greatly affected by the EQ. So the choice of the EQ is extremely crucial.

Thanks

[WmAx]

tlt418 wrote:

Hello JP:

I'm very impressed by your project and your equipments. May be I will start with the EQ and the software for tuning my actual system. It will be my first experience and I would like to obtain help from you and from other experts like Chris. There are many models of EQ I saw at Partsexpress.com. I don't know what is the best model for me. I think that the final sound will be greatly affected by the EQ. So the choice of the EQ is extremely crucial.

Thanks

The DCX2496 is critical here. It is a superb EQ, but is also a high grade DSP based xover system that will allow for perfect integration of your main speakers and the subwoofers. Insert the DCX between your pre-amp and main channel amplifiers. To get a DSP xover comparable to the DCX from another company, you will have to spend about 2x as much, and it will have lesser features and no direct computer GUI interface for the easiest set up. However, for 3 to 4x as much, you can get a comparable unit from another company that also has computer interface, as well as some additional features not found on the DCX.

-Chris

[tlt418]

Thank you Chris,
I just download the DCX2496 manual and the Room EQ Wizard. I will study these before making the order of the necessary items. In Canada I can't get anymore the RS SPL meter (all the RadioShack stores have become Circuit City Stores). I'll try to get one in US. Best regards.

[WmAx]

tlt418 wrote:

Thank you Chris,
I just download the DCX2496 manual and the Room EQ Wizard. I will study these before making the order of the necessary items. In Canada I can't get anymore the RS SPL meter (all the RadioShack stores have become Circuit City Stores). I'll try to get one in US. Best regards.

You will have to make some adapter cables if you are going from consumer RCA to professional XLR. You can also buy adapters - but I think custom made cables are the best option. It's cheap and easy. Also, if you feed the DCX output to a consumer unbalanced RCA jack -- the consumer device is designed for much lower voltage input level. So you would need to install attenuators between the two. The Harrison Labs 12db in-line RCA attenuators should be sufficient for this application. You can also make attenuators if you so desire. All that is involved is a simple L-pad network using two resistors. BTW, always use the shortest possible cables runs possible with passive attenuators such as these. Shunt capacitance of the cable can cause undesirable treble attenuation if a significant length cable is placed between the attenuator and amplifier input.

-Chris

[imbeaujp]

Yes the DCX2496 is a GREAT product. Buy you should test your room first. Maybe you do not need an EQ (this is my case). I bought an EQ and after some try out with speaker placement, I resolve 95% of my peeks. So, make some mesurement with REW and then make your decision.

There is some nice amp that have a built in parametric EQ. I am considering the Crown XTI2000.

But if you want to drive your sub in real stereo, I think you will need a xover anyway...

JP

[WmAx]

imbeaujp wrote:

Yes the DCX2496 is a GREAT product. Buy you should test your room first. Maybe you do not need an EQ (this is my case). I bought an EQ and after some try out with speaker placement, I resolve 95% of my peeks. So, make some mesurement with REW and then make your decision.

There is some nice amp that have a built in parametric EQ. I am considering the Crown XTI2000.

But if you want to drive your sub in real stereo, I think you will need a xover anyway...

JP

Even if he did not need any EQ to correct peaks, the DCX is critical for proper main to sub integration. It also allows for custom roll off shaping of the sub. This means, that the user can 'dial in' any bass signature he so desires, such as his preferred effect of 'tight sound', 'extension', etc.. I am not sure of the flexibility of the crossover and/or EQs in the Crown amp mentioned, but this would not solve the main channel xover integration issue. The DCX applies to both ends.

-Chris

[tlt418]

I saw Behringer has the DEQ2496 and FBQ2496 models other than the DCX2496 (speakers crossover only). I understand that the DEQ has many functions like GEQ, PEQ, FBD, RTA etc. while the FBQ has PEQ and FBD only. In many subwoofers, there is a variable crossover built-in for integration with the speakers.

I think that for optimal integration of the sub with the main speakers, the DCX should be the best. But for room equalizing purpose (for bass frequencies) or for frequency response correction of the whole system sound, I would need the DEQ or the FBQ. What do you think about the best choice of these Behringer's (if price is no matter)?

Tony L.

[WmAx]

tlt418 wrote:

I saw Behringer has the DEQ2496 and FBQ2496 models other than the DCX2496 (speakers crossover only). I understand that the DEQ has many functions like GEQ, PEQ, FBD, RTA etc. while the FBQ has PEQ and FBD only. In many subwoofers, there is a variable crossover built-in for integration with the speakers

The DCX2496 is a powerful crossover, PEQ, limiter and dynamic PEQ. It is far from just being a crossover.

I think that for optimal integration of the sub with the main speakers, the DCX should be the best. But for room equalizing purpose (for bass frequencies) or for frequency response correction of the whole system sound, I would need the DEQ or the FBQ. What do you think about the best choice of these Behringer's (if price is no matter)?

The DCX is the best option for all of these purposes - there is no reason to add on a DEQ or FBQ - it would be redundant to features already present in the DCX.

It is best to set the sub built in xovers to 'bypass mode', or if such mode is not available, set them to the highest possible frequency so that they do not have much effect. It is not probable that the sub's built in crossover will match the versatile and powerful one found in the DCX. In addition, you can use the wonderful DCX GUI software on your PC to set up the DCX and adjust it on the fly after linking it with a serial cable. In this manner, you could use a lap top PC to measure and set up the system while sitting in your regular listening position.

-Chris