Vinyl: Don't Call It a Fluke, It's a Comeback - Page 2 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #11 of 30 Old 03-21-15, 11:20 PM
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Re: Vinyl: Don't Call It a Fluke, It's a Comeback

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It seems like more and more mainstream music artists are releasing vinyl versions of their latest albums. Madonna, Sia, Katy Perry, Gaga, Maroon 5, Mary J Blige, B.B King, Tony Bennett, Neil Young, are among those who have LPs available.
My uncle was telling me that it's no just some artists... most record labels make the first 10,000 copies of an album on vinyl first... or thats what he was telling me.

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post #12 of 30 Old 03-21-15, 11:24 PM
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Re: Vinyl: Don't Call It a Fluke, It's a Comeback

Good to see the increase in sales for vinyl lately and especially that it's driven by and coming from a completely new generation of ears. My rag on CDs when they came out during the 80s was there was a loss of "warmth" in the bass frequencies. When you cranked the volume they just didn't have the same satisfying feel. Now that some of the MP3 generation are signing on makes you optimistic for the future. The difference from vinyl to CDs was subtle. The difference between vinyl and MP3s must be more like a good poke in the solar plexus.
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post #13 of 30 Old 03-21-15, 11:56 PM
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Re: Vinyl: Don't Call It a Fluke, It's a Comeback

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Good to see the increase in sales for vinyl lately and especially that it's driven by and coming from a completely new generation of ears. My rag on CDs when they came out during the 80s was there was a loss of "warmth" in the bass frequencies. When you cranked the volume they just didn't have the same satisfying feel. Now that some of the MP3 generation are signing on makes you optimistic for the future. The difference from vinyl to CDs was subtle. The difference between vinyl and MP3s must be more like a good poke in the solar plexus.
Agreed, I'm 33 and was fine with CD's until everything went wrong "MP3" The single worst thing to happen to music sonically. Kinda like the fast food of music consumption, and you see what is happening to McDonalds and the like. Convenience doesn't trump quality for long before a correction is made.
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post #14 of 30 Old 03-22-15, 11:02 AM
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Re: Vinyl: Don't Call It a Fluke, It's a Comeback

MP3 is a convenient however a well pressed cd in my opinion on a good machine, outperforms vinyl in many ways. Vinyl has that organic sound to it but has a lot of shortcomings, especially when lot of older men try to re-live their youth with $10k to $100k turntables. Hi-res audio will be the future as the younger generation will not adhere to their dads' or grandpas' desires. Sure vinyl has a comeback and it's different from cd or hi-res. Not necessarily better or worse but different.

I'm into hi-end home theatre so I don't care either way. If I had a good 2 channel system it would consist of both cd and vinyl. I would spend $4k on a cd player and $4k on a turntable and call it a day. If that's too much money than $2k on each unit.

The vast majority of the new generation like my kids, nephews and niece like downloading so ANY hi-end audio for them will be High Resolution players. Vinyl will end up being a by-product. It's re-peaking right now but the comeback won't last too, too long.

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post #15 of 30 Old 03-25-15, 08:44 AM
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Re: Vinyl: Don't Call It a Fluke, It's a Comeback

I've never given up on vinyl and I'm happy to see the media is on a comeback. However, IHO, I believe that vinyl will remain a niche market as our lifestyle is geared more towards convenience than it is quality. This alone will be prevent it from regaining king of the heap.
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post #16 of 30 Old 04-07-15, 03:31 AM
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Re: Vinyl: Don't Call It a Fluke, It's a Comeback

I'm an old analog guy. I left Pro-Audio in 1975 (Vinyl Mastering Engineer) for a new Career as I could see the writing on the wall. I was so convinced that digital would become the new replacement for vinyl as a storage medium that I gave all my records away (mostly to Goodwill). Every record that I have replaced with a CD sounds like garbage, so at this moment, I appreciate the vinyl resurgence...But is it a comeback? Not in my opinion. Digital is here to stay for awhile. I just wish we had some "audiophiles" as digital engineers in Silly-con Valley because the current product is terrible! On paper, and technically, digital has the potential to be the superior medium; s/n ratio, FAR superior to tape, slightly better then an excellent cartridge tracking a freshly cut Acetate and the flexibility of sound manipulation is awesome! That said;

It will take at least a generation, likely two, to get us back to proper recording and mastering techniques if ANY storage medium is to survive. The biggest problem today, as I see it, is Ears! CD's today need to be remastered because it's a totally different media, but remixed??? Case in Point; Listen to an original mix of Simon & Garfunkel's "Bridge over Troubled Waters" (an early 70's LP should do) then listen to same song on CD. There is one point on the original where the Bass Guitar slides up the fretboard. It is critical in the mix because it is so impactful on the song. So impactful in fact, that its absence angered me enough for me to break a wine glass!!!!! (!) Guess what....You will soon find yourself listening to the entire record on LP rather then CD simply because it sounds so much better. You may even get to be able to ignore the clicks and pops.... It's mostly in the MIX!

Digital is simply EVOLVING...It took Analog 80 years to get it right for it's time, lets hope we can evolve a little faster this time.

IF YOU BUY VINYL: Try to be sure the vinyl you buy was mastered from the original analog mix. Many sold today are Vinyl mastered from Digital Masters. I don't see any advantage to this. But the point is nearly moot since CD's are going to be obsolete by next year anyway (so why did HONDA include a CD player in my 2015 Civic?) I have no idea, cuz I'll never use it..... Maybe SD card slot?
In'67 I tried a Turntable in my new Firebird!..... Anyone interested in a 50 yr old 8-track?
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post #17 of 30 Old 04-07-15, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
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I'm an old analog guy. I left Pro-Audio in 1975 (Vinyl Mastering Engineer) for a new Career as I could see the writing on the wall. I was so convinced that digital would become the new replacement for vinyl as a storage medium that I gave all my records away (mostly to Goodwill). Every record that I have replaced with a CD sounds like garbage, so at this moment, I appreciate the vinyl resurgence...But is it a comeback? Not in my opinion. Digital is here to stay for awhile. I just wish we had some "audiophiles" as digital engineers in Silly-con Valley because the current product is terrible! On paper, and technically, digital has the potential to be the superior medium; s/n ratio, FAR superior to tape, slightly better then an excellent cartridge tracking a freshly cut Acetate and the flexibility of sound manipulation is awesome! That said; It will take at least a generation, likely two, to get us back to proper recording and mastering techniques if ANY storage medium is to survive. The biggest problem today, as I see it, is Ears! CD's today need to be remastered because it's a totally different media, but remixed??? Case in Point; Listen to an original mix of Simon & Garfunkel's "Bridge over Troubled Waters" (an early 70's LP should do) then listen to same song on CD. There is one point on the original where the Bass Guitar slides up the fretboard. It is critical in the mix because it is so impactful on the song. So impactful in fact, that its absence angered me enough for me to break a wine glass!!!!! (!) Guess what....You will soon find yourself listening to the entire record on LP rather then CD simply because it sounds so much better. You may even get to be able to ignore the clicks and pops.... It's mostly in the MIX! Digital is simply EVOLVING...It took Analog 80 years to get it right for it's time, lets hope we can evolve a little faster this time. IF YOU BUY VINYL: Try to be sure the vinyl you buy was mastered from the original analog mix. Many sold today are Vinyl mastered from Digital Masters. I don't see any advantage to this. But the point is nearly moot since CD's are going to be obsolete by next year anyway (so why did HONDA include a CD player in my 2015 Civic?) I have no idea, cuz I'll never use it..... Maybe SD card slot? In'67 I tried a Turntable in my new Firebird!..... Anyone interested in a 50 yr old 8-track?
So you're an old analog guy? I'm just old. But I'm also an old analog to digital guy ( harr harr hahahahah). Don't get me wrong... I love my vinyl. It's just that after I finally find something in the stacks, clean both it and the stylus, clamp it into the rig, try to set a reasonable volume, queue up a song, and take a running leap for the listening chair before the first note graces the air... I'm sometimes no longer in the mood to hear what I picked out in the first place. And even if I were, there are bound to be tracks I'd rather skip over. Then what? Aaarrrggghhhh! Dodge those wine glasses! BTW, hope you have bad aim and didn't lunch your stylus along with the glass. It'd be so much nicer to convert all those grooves into 1's and 0's and store them on a server to call up on a whim. Of course that will never happen in my lifetime. Oh, I could try. But the effort would limit my motivation to just capturing my favorites and preserving the new stuff.

You're not the only one who dumped vinyl and lived to regret it. I'm still kicking myself for unloading a box set of The Concert for Bangladesh among other gems just to raise pennies on the dollar for screechy, harsh digital. Now before the DIGITAL GOOD / ANALOG BAD crowd rushes at me with pitchforks, let me add the word "early." Early digital sounded bad because it was bad. Recording & mastering engineers raised on analog needed time to develop new skills. The second salvo came in the form of unrefined A/D.and D/A converters. "Perfect Sound Forever" indeed!

Of course, digital nasties were eventually scrubbed out by scientists and engineers who dared question CD's supremacy. I've heard glorious examples of both formats. A lot more conditions just have to be met for analog to challenge the digital Goliath: well cared-for vinyl that's properly cleaned, and a quality TT that's properly set up (for starters). Analog post-processing for surface noise and ticks/pops helps as well, though such units have all but gone the way of the dinosaurs. In any case, you can swing a stick and hit as many studies for a particular format as you can against it--ad infinitum, ad nauseum. Just the other day I read how vinyl sales figures were making board room members sit up and take notice (dismal as they are), and how start-ups are not only salvaging and reconditioning old presses, but also finding and recruiting retired skilled tradesmen to train new apprentices. Vinyl comeback? I have enough new music on new, better sounding vinyl than ever. I'm too busy enjoying it to care!

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Last edited by Lumen; 04-08-15 at 07:31 AM. Reason: Removed duplicate quotes
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post #18 of 30 Old 04-07-15, 11:05 PM
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Re: Vinyl: Don't Call It a Fluke, It's a Comeback

Wow, reading your equipment list, seeing your submitted Pics, after reading your post You have emerged as my new IDOL! Marantz and Emotiva are both on my wish list. I used B&W Powered monitors when I use to Master. That and your nice Yamaha digital Board and a full version of ProTools and I'd be in Fat City!

I too have heard Very Good Quality Digital but rarely on CD, now that higher rez digital is available, a new format needs to be employed (SD cards?). I don't know enough about digital to make any intelligent suggestions but someone who knows digital better should be able to solve this.

In the mean time, I'm glad to see that you have managed to "Crossover" successfully. That's my next step. I want to record again but I have a lot to learn but I am willing. I hope you might allow me to "pick your brain" a bit when the time comes for me to start. First I need to convert a one car Garage into a listening room. home theater, recording studio. I'm tired of listening to overcompressed (dynamically) garbage as if it represented the POSSIBILITIES of DIGITAL. It's not likely to happen for you and I but we can make the best of the medium we have inherited.

Brian (aka NairbD)
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post #19 of 30 Old 04-08-15, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
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Wow, reading your equipment list, seeing your submitted Pics, after reading your post You have emerged as my new IDOL! Marantz and Emotiva are both on my wish list. I used B&W Powered monitors when I use to Master. That and your nice Yamaha digital Board and a full version of ProTools and I'd be in Fat City! I too have heard Very Good Quality Digital but rarely on CD, now that higher rez digital is available, a new format needs to be employed (SD cards?). I don't know enough about digital to make any intelligent suggestions but someone who knows digital better should be able to solve this. In the mean time, I'm glad to see that you have managed to "Crossover" successfully. That's my next step. I want to record again but I have a lot to learn but I am willing. I hope you might allow me to "pick your brain" a bit when the time comes for me to start. First I need to convert a one car Garage into a listening room. home theater, recording studio. I'm tired of listening to overcompressed (dynamically) garbage as if it represented the POSSIBILITIES of DIGITAL. It's not likely to happen for you and I but we can make the best of the medium we have inherited. Brian (aka NairbD)
Hello, Brian, and thanks for the kind words. I am very happy with the EMOTIVA gear. The XMC-1 pre/pro and XPA-5 amp are impressive tour-de-force designs, and are an upgrade from the UMC-1 and UPA-1, which I still own. Am on my way to work and have to go now, but will talk again soon. Cheers!

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post #20 of 30 Old 04-08-15, 07:51 AM
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Re: Vinyl: Don't Call It a Fluke, It's a Comeback

...continued from earlier...

Hello again, Brian! Before I contniue answering your post, please be aware that we're wandering off-topic, so if you'd like to continue after this, please post a new thread in the CD Players & Turntables Forum, and I'll follow you there. There are plenty of experts on this site that dance circles around me, but I'll help the best I can.

Home theater, listening room, and recording studio all-in-one? Fascinating project! Not to say it can't be done, but that's a tall order with conflicting goals. For instance, nearfield monitoring from your mastering days might need to morph into a farfield compromise. I guess it all depends on whether you plan on having two separate systems in the same room (or different speaker sets paired with the same system). However it pans out, I'll be interested to follow your build. If you haven't found it already, our members can offer expert advice in the Home Theater Design and Construction forum.

As far as a storage medium for LP transfers or high-res digital goes: There are many solutions to fit different budgets. You can start with SD cards (my car's sound system accepts them, too), USB thumb drives, cell phones, or dedicated players. High res files are large, so store them in a lossless-compressed format like FLAC or ALAC. Between my iPhone's 128GB and iPod Classic's 160GB, I'm pretty much set for a day or two's worth of listening (wink). If I get tired of those playlists, I "record" over them.

And yes, it's a sad state of affairs that digital recording quality often falls far short of the CD medium's capabilities. But that can also be said of many LP recordings. See you 'round the forums!

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