Vinyl: Don't Call It a Fluke, It's a Comeback - Page 3 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #21 of 30 Old 04-09-15, 01:14 AM
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Re: Vinyl: Don't Call It a Fluke, It's a Comeback

Thanks BluerockinLou, I agree about the off topic part, but I think the original poster here might be interested in your Emotiva and other equipment. I'll meet you in Design and Construction section. see you there.

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post #22 of 30 Old 04-23-15, 12:22 AM
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Re: Vinyl: Don't Call It a Fluke, It's a Comeback

I played a funny prank on friends who had convinced themselves digital music "must" sound better because of various technical claims about the medium. My response was always along the lines of "that may be true, I can't say, but even so, are those attributes even audible, and if so, is it better?"

So, I had them over on a Friday night, wine glasses full, no throwing allowed. I played a naxos cd of Dave Brubeck's Take Five, ripped to my hard drive, played by Squeezebox and Monica3 DAC, by comparison with an audiophile pressing on my Linn LP12.

They all picked the obvious and indisputably better version, as I flipped back and forth between the two versions. It was clearer, it was fuller, it was more realistic sounding, more detailed . . . it was VINYL, and when I revealed the "truth", they became argumentative!

I called it a prank, because I wanted to teach them a lesson. (insert mischievous grin about here). I have other examples of parallel recordings (vinyl and digital) that, let's say, require closer listening to appreciate the differences.

I see vinyl has been making a steady . . . well, increase, for quite a few years now. I agree it's not so huge as to be properly called a "come back." It makes me a little uneasy that it's the hipster crowd driving the demand--the passionate interests of the so-called "audiophile" are too small a market share to demand all this new vinyl production.

So, love your local hipster. Invite him or her over, with their portable record players and try not to cringe too much.
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post #23 of 30 Old 04-23-15, 02:28 PM
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Re: Vinyl: Don't Call It a Fluke, It's a Comeback

It depends on the mastering. I own many albums in both formats and I've heard both sound really REALLY good and both sound really REALLY aweful. While the CD format is technically a superior medium, its capabililities are seldom reached because of poor mastering. On the flip side, I've heard sound that just shouldn't be available on teh vinyl medium but the recording engineer new its limitations and worked with them. All in the mastering my friends.


Oh and on the note of vinyl comeback.. I'm glad it survived a near death experience but it will never surpass digital downloads.. at least not in my lifetime. It will remain a niche market.
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post #24 of 30 Old 04-23-15, 11:25 PM
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Re: Vinyl: Don't Call It a Fluke, It's a Comeback

I agree with nearly all you mentioned. However, mastering is more "technical" then Artistic. It really is simply a "media change" (in my case, tape to vinyl). I've mastered some abysmal tapes to vinyl. But my goal was to make the best copy of a mastered tape into the best copy of a record (vinyl), NOT to change the tape into something sounding other then what it is just to make sure it sounds better (and to whom?), that's the Mix engineers job! You are VERY correct in saying that an engineer who understands the limits of the media is Very helpful. Don't expect ANY Mastering Engineer to to improve on a poorly mixed Master!

It's not "all in the mastering". In my opinion, It's all in the MIX!
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post #25 of 30 Old 04-24-15, 06:42 AM
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NairbD wrote: View Post
I agree with nearly all you mentioned. However, mastering is more "technical" then Artistic. It really is simply a "media change" (in my case, tape to vinyl). I've mastered some abysmal tapes to vinyl. But my goal was to make the best copy of a mastered tape into the best copy of a record (vinyl), NOT to change the tape into something sounding other then what it is just to make sure it sounds better (and to whom?), that's the Mix engineers job! You are VERY correct in saying that an engineer who understands the limits of the media is Very helpful. Don't expect ANY Mastering Engineer to to improve on a poorly mixed Master! It's not "all in the mastering". In my opinion, It's all in the MIX!
Brian, I can't agree with you more. A poorly mixed recording can't be saved in cases like over compression. Sadly, many artists/bands tend to skip professional mastering to reduce costs. Also, many others simply misunderstand exactly what mastering is. Professional mastering polishes the final mix into a work that's better than the sum of its parts. In the end, a well-mastered track will sound, well... professional. A well-mastered album binds separate songs into one flowing, harmonious art form. Of course, final results also depend on the quality of the performance. But I'm probably preaching to the choir here. In the case of vinyl, the completed Master makes its way into the hands of the cutting engineer, who adapts the audio signal feeding the lathe amps.

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post #26 of 30 Old 04-24-15, 07:07 AM
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Re: Vinyl: Don't Call It a Fluke, It's a Comeback

Quote:
NairbD wrote: View Post
I agree with nearly all you mentioned. However, mastering is more "technical" then Artistic. It really is simply a "media change" (in my case, tape to vinyl). I've mastered some abysmal tapes to vinyl. But my goal was to make the best copy of a mastered tape into the best copy of a record (vinyl), NOT to change the tape into something sounding other then what it is just to make sure it sounds better (and to whom?), that's the Mix engineers job! You are VERY correct in saying that an engineer who understands the limits of the media is Very helpful. Don't expect ANY Mastering Engineer to to improve on a poorly mixed Master!

It's not "all in the mastering". In my opinion, It's all in the MIX!
Agreed.. Mastering won't be able to fix a poor mix.. I was under the impression that mixing was also under the "mastering" umbrella.
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post #27 of 30 Old 04-24-15, 09:06 AM
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Re: Vinyl: Don't Call It a Fluke, It's a Comeback

Quote:
3dbinCanada wrote: View Post
Agreed.. Mastering won't be able to fix a poor mix.. I was under the impression that mixing was also under the "mastering" umbrella.
Guess I made a sweeping assumption
Mixing and mastering engineers can be one-and-the-same. I was thinking more along the lines of the "greats," like Bernie Grundman or Bob Katz. Maybe they're a dying breed?

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post #28 of 30 Old 04-24-15, 03:57 PM
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BlueRockinLou wrote: View Post
Guess I made a sweeping assumption Mixing and mastering engineers can be one-and-the-same. I was thinking more along the lines of the "greats," like Bernie Grundman or Bob Katz. Maybe they're a dying breed?
But a lot of times I think too much. You come from the real world, so I'm dying to hear what it's really like!

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post #29 of 30 Old 04-25-15, 04:54 AM
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Re: Vinyl: Don't Call It a Fluke, It's a Comeback

There are some Truly Masterful disc cutters out there who can "do it all", track, mix and master. I'm not among that group. My boss once told me that I was the second best Mastering Engineer that he knew of. When I asked him who he thought the "Best" was he said, "There's about 400 tied for first"!
You brought up another point however about "over compression". Compression is just an off-shoot of peak limiting with gain added to make up for what was lost in limiting! We used them as "tools" - now, their used as "effects". Dynamics are an important part of the music, to eliminate that is ruinous to the music.
"Look what they've done to my song, mom"!
We've all spent $$$ trying to eliminate distortion in our home theatres audio signal path, now engineers are spending $$$ trying to reproduce it (distortion), the very issues we were trying to avoid.
"look what they've done to my sound, mom"!
Nice to hear from a Canadian (3db). I worked at Imperial Records in Vancouver!

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post #30 of 30 Old 04-29-15, 05:27 AM
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Re: Vinyl: Don't Call It a Fluke, It's a Comeback

The vinyl recovery is occurring here in the UK as well. Of course, as a very old person, I still prefer the old music, but I find that many of my much younger friends do also. I still have my LP collection, nearly intact, even after an attack of "what will happen to them when I die?" nearly made me sell them.

But let's not get carried away just yet. This from 2013: "Vinyl sales are at their highest level for 15 years, according to figures from the British Phonographic Industry (BPI) and the Official Charts Company.
Just over 780,000 vinyl albums were sold in 2013 the largest number since 817,000 were sold in 1997. The 2013 figure also constitutes a 101 per cent rise on 2012 sales." Still very small numbers.

The great, indisputable advantage of vinyl is the product itself. They are wonderful to hold, to look at, to "unwrap", to place on the turntable, to lower the stylus, to hear that first satisfying clunk, followed by the low level crackle and hiss, as comforting as a mother's breathing to a baby. All of this is lost with CD, and as far as downloads go, none of it even appeared on the menu.

After saying that, these days I do mainly listen to music from my networked flac rips. Just too old now, I suppose, to make that 15 foot trek to the turntable every 20 minutes or so. The last LP I bought was Leonard Cohen's Popular Problems, but I have not taken it out of the cover, for fear of it not being what I believe it should be. I got the CD at the same time.
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