Touch Not This Format War

**Wayde** · **06-28-06, 09:11 PM**

I think the BD and HD DVD format war can be retired as a topic of lightweight discussion, at least by me. It's become a very politically charged matter.

I submitted an editorial piece to Audioholics the other day, posted by Clint. It got a lot of attention from readers wanting my blood for everything from not telling the "whole" story (IE leaving out some technical details in my rundown of factors to consider if deciding between the two) to not actually making a decision about which one to buy. The website itself also got blasted for supposedly taking an anti-hi-def stance. That's a bewildering accusation.

The editorial itself was written to point up a few things that I didn't think were so well publicized. I didn't think it would be too much of stretch to recount that a majority of the reviews have said the early HD DVD movies have a better picture quality and that the BD movies might be suffering at the hands of Mpeg2 compression. I guess that's not a unanimous opinion and that I'm spreading a misconception.

The message of the editorial was that the smart money is on waiting to see what happens in the market. Neither player is worth your hard earned money at this point. I stand behind that claim. I would be remiss if I didn't include that I harbor ill feelings toward both Sony and Toshiba for making what should be a natural progression of technology into a format war. Although it has been an interesting topic and it certainly gets people riled up to talk and post about it.

Want to see some venom flowing back and forth? Check out the HD DVD / Blu-ray boards on AVSforum. I don't think we'll see the situation degenerate to that level at the HomeTheaterShack

I'm disappointed that we the minority of hi-fi, home theater and audio/video fans out there are at each other's throats over something as indifferent toward us as Sony and Toshiba's market place fisticuffs. There are sports fans and political pundits less single-minded in their views than some of the side-takers in this format war.

The format war was designed to take advantage of us, the early adopters and A/V fans who read blogs and forum posts about our hobby. It's because we understand the difference between 480i and 1080P that we're also inevitably the ones who will have any opinion at all. Most of the average Joe consumers are still trying to master HD over air broadcasts and progressive scan DVD video.

I think we need to relax. Too many people feel personally involved in one format or the other like a rabid football dad who thinks his kid is one shift away from a scholarship. Even if you've bought a disk player, enjoy it! If the format you chose "loses the war"; who cares? Enjoy the movies you have, it won't stop working for them. It's an old rule in computers, you buy hardware for the software that's currently available, "future proofing" is a fools game. Stonehenge and the pyramids of Egypt were built be future proof. Consumer electronics technology is transient, designed to last until manufacturers can no longer milk it for profit.

Link To Original Article

**Sonnie** · **06-29-06, 01:46 AM**

Really? I haven't even noticed there was such a war among enthusiast... not that I wouldn't expect it at some places. I guess I must be stayin' too shut up and not getting out enough anymore.

A pic of a couple of boxers with the format labels on their trunks would have been cute. Of course I'd wanna see the HD-DVD boxer smashing the BD boxer up side the head. heehee...

**Tommy** · **06-29-06, 07:53 AM**

Wade, I read the editorial, it was a good article. As an early adopter to hd-dvd I cant say the “wait and see” was my approach but I can perfectly see where the majority would want to wait and see. I guess that could be an article in itself of whether or not early adoption into this technology is right for you.

We were going to buy a good new player for are HT room and it wasn’t that much more for the hd-dvd. So that was basically my decision for early adoption. A year from now when the technology has improved and hopefully a winner has emerged I may or may not have to go get a new player but in the mean time I’ll enjoy my current hd-dvd which was an improvement over choosing a regular dvd player.

But I think it is well that your articles and the subject itself is generating such debate and discussion. It shows an interest and expectations of what the consumer is looking forward too not matter which side they pick.

Anyway I hope this doesn’t put you off writing about the subject if anything I think it shows how interested everyone is about HD.

**Phil M** · **06-29-06, 09:47 AM**

A few alternative thoughts, just for fun but a different approach.

IMHO the mass market will decide if their is a 'winner' or not, not the small group who populate the various AV forums. Whoever can deliver HD movies in the most convenient manner at the lowest price will have the biggest advantage.
During the VHS/Betamax war we had a third format in Europe from Phillips, V2000, which was far superior in terms of picture quality and convenience (the cassette was similar to an audio cassette in that you could turn it upside down and use both sides). I don't know if this was ever launched in the US? In the end VHS, the poorest format in terms of performance, won. As an enthusiast I wanted the V2000 system to win, it gave me a better picture and was more convenient.
So this time around I don't really care who wins, I can get HD movies via satellite or, if I'm really desperate, from cable. No investment in media or hardware that could become obsolete in the near future.
So unless their is a clear winner I'll sit tight - isn't this how the mass market will behave?

Unless one of the camps come up with a revolutionary marketing approach to break the log jam then neither format will reach the critical mass needed to succeed. What I would do is something like a rental deal with a media provider like Netflix/Blockbuster/Hollywood, for example a player and 4 movies a month for a 2 year $40month agreement. The average guy on the street has a low entry cost, doesn't care about the format and is guranteed to get accesss to movies. But just a second, can't I get this from cable/sat? Yes I can, but I could also go out and buy the movies I want to own and what happens = critical mass.

If the Blu-Ray or HD-DVD camps want to offer me a job - please PM me via this site

**Wayde** · **06-29-06, 09:55 AM**

Thanks guys!

I just hope I haven't ****** off Audioholics

They're taking heat in the forum if you read any of the comments. Although I'm sure they're used to it, it happens a lot (not just my articles).

The last comment is typical of the poop-storm that editorial rasied, it has me going huh?

This comes from MBaur:
" I agree that much of the commentary around these formats has been sugar coated however it doesn't necessarily stand to reason that an editorial on Audioholics has to take the opposite extreme.

Yes it is an "editorial" but an editor should have caught the disconnect between the title and the contents. We are all guests here on the site and I respect that and attempt to make posts in the spirit of being a guest and visiting the site.

What we read on Audioholics is how we as readers gauge the reliability and benefit of the site. The editorial we are discussing needed the input of an editor, primarily to read it and discuss with the author the disconnect between the title and the actual document. I know I began reading it to inform myself and help me make a decision I felt it failed to provide the insight I was after. I am not discussing whether I agree or disagree with the piece, but the failure of it to deliver the value I hoped to receive. Defending it by telling me that most reviews and articles are sugar coating the devices doesn't make up for the tone and content of the editorial"

I don't get that... he's telling Clint he didn't do his job because the headline was a bad choice I was critical of both formats? I didn't think I was being venemous.

Actually I think both formats are lovely, I am dissapointed there isn't only one though. I am afraid of the glitch preventing BD from being a 50Gig disk though, this is the kind of thing that could drag on and on. At the rate that Sony is troubleshooting lately I'd be surprized if we see 50Gig blu-ray disks by the fall.

HD DVD is the obvious choice for now. Hey, Tommy - since the HD DVD player plays back DVDs anyway, if I were buying now I'd consider it.

**Sonnie** · **06-29-06, 01:30 PM**

Quote:

HD DVD is the obvious choice for now. Hey, Tommy - since the HD DVD player plays back DVDs anyway, if I were buying now I'd consider it.

I think this is the key. If you are looking for a DVD player, particularly an upconverting one... the Toshiba is not a bad choice IMO. Sure you can buy an OPPO for a couple hundred bucks, but look what I did... I bought the Denon 3910... not an inexpensive choice. Granted I only paid dealer cost for it, but still not cheap. I did sell it and my net was $725.73 after shipping and Paypal fees... so I pretty much broke even on it. The key for me though, is the Toshiba offers me more viewing pleasure than the Denon did. It still plays my SD-DVDs and although I haven't tried one yet... I understand they look pretty good and the Toshiba does a good job upconverting those (again I cannot qualify that statement, hearsay only.) The drawback is more costly DVDs for that extra viewing pleasure. Fortunately I have a little change left over (the Toshiba cost me $443 shipped - net of $725 on the Denon = $282 left over for HD-DVDs).

All of this is Wayde and Bob's fault too... (as a result of one of your threads Wayde and your review post on the BD Bob)... so I got somebody to blame if it don't work out!

You both twisted my arm... threatened me, would have beat me up had I not done this... I would have never heard the end of it I'm sure.

**Wayde** · **06-29-06, 03:02 PM**

Quote:

Phil M wrote:

A few alternative thoughts, just for fun but a different approach.

IMHO the mass market will decide if their is a 'winner' or not, not the small group who populate the various AV forums. ... What I would do is something like a rental deal with a media provider like Netflix/Blockbuster/Hollywood, for example a player and 4 movies a month for a 2 year $40month agreement. The average guy on the street has a low entry cost, doesn't care about the format and is guranteed to get accesss to movies. But just a second, can't I get this from cable/sat? Y

I hear ya Phil!

I agree with you on that rental thing too. There is a little known rewritable disk format coming from Hitachi called holographic versatile disk it's going to have like a terabyte of storage.

I did a little research (on various forums, including this one) to see how ready people are to embrace HD movie downloads and it seems like outside of the main fanbase of media servers reception is rather lukewarm. Of course that's no scientific inquiry by any means.

Just think of high speed internet downloading your movie from Amazon, iTunes etc and storing the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy on one HVD. Now that would end the format war.

On the Philips V2000, I've never even heard of it. In the days of VCR I used to be a an in - home TV / VCR / Stereo repair man in the US. I've seen Beta and mostly VHS but never the V2000. Laserdisk starting really coming in when I got out of that business.

Funny... back around 1993 I decided there was no future in home A/V installs so I became a Windows NT network admin which seemed like a sure bet. Today I think the opposite might be true. If you're in the right place you could probably really clean up as a CEDIA HDTV calibrator, HT installer. But IT depts are filled to the gills with resumes that claim expertise in Windows operating systems.

**Wayde** · **06-29-06, 03:27 PM**

Quote:

Sonnie wrote:

All of this is Wayde and Bob's fault too... (as a result of one of your threads Wayde and your review post on the BD Bob)... so I got somebody to blame if it don't work out!

You both twisted my arm... threatened me, would have beat me up had I not done this... I would have never heard the end of it I'm sure.

You got that right! It's a good thing too!

I think you made the right choice. In any article (maybe I should write one for the blog) I am "secretly" and have always been rooting for HD DVD.

As far as I know HD DVD was the oldest.

Long long ago I was reading this website about an upcoming disk format for something called HDTV ... at the time it seemed like a very far ranging idea:

http://www.dvdsite.org/

But the format they were promoting was HD DVD. The mission of the "one format" group was to avoid exactly what has happened. So, as far as I know HD DVD was first. Sony came up with Blu-ray later.

HD DVD supports MANDATORY managed copy, so as far as we can tell now it'll more WIndows Vista friendly, allowing you to copy disks. Not that this will help you if the HD-A1 doesn't have a RJ45 connector, I don't think it does.

But HD DVD will also support iHD which is more Win Vista interactivity.

Surprize - Microsoft supports HD DVD and will probably put one on the Xbox360 as an addon sometime next year if not for Christmas this year.

HD DVD will have one layer of encryption specified by the AACS, the flag based thingamajig (actual names elude my overtaxed grey matter at this particular moment).

Blu-ray on the other hand will apparently have two added layers of encryption. This should really be irrelevant to you and me who will use the devices for honest endeavors, so it's not a big issue.

However, you can see the picture that emerges ... HD DVD had a clear "customer-centric" vision from the start. Blu-ray had a kiss the studios arse vision by adding their own encryption and not adding managed copy to their repetroir of features. Only after HP threatened to jump over to the HD DVD side did Blu-ray (Sony) relent and make Managed Copy (not mandatory managed copy) an optional feature up to the discression of the studio releasing the movie.

So, as an average consumer I personally like HD DVD. But as I've said from the begining the first format upon which which I can watch my favorite trilogy of trilogies - Star Wars, LOTR and Terminator I'm waiting on HD disks.

**bobgpsr** · **06-29-06, 08:47 PM**

Quote:

Wayde wrote:

...Not that this will help you if the HD-A1 doesn't have a RJ45 connector, I don't think it does...

Ahem! Sure it does. Just used it this eve to update my Toshiba player to the latest 1.4 firmware over the net.

Bob

**Wayde** · **06-29-06, 10:53 PM**

Sweet dude!

Then you get a possibility for some nice features with Windows, if any studio ever bothers to include it. I'm not too hopeful that iHD will do a lot.

I remember when they talked about DVD doing allt his interactive stuff. Some did a few interesting things but I am personally a watch the movie sort of guy and that's about it.

**AverageJoe** · **06-30-06, 12:56 AM**

Quote:

Wayde wrote:

...I submitted an editorial piece to Audioholics the other day, posted by Clint. It got a lot of attention from readers wanting my blood for everything from not telling the "whole" story (IE leaving out some technical details in my rundown of factors to consider if deciding between the two) to not actually making a decision about which one to buy. The website itself also got blasted for supposedly taking an anti-hi-def stance. That's a bewildering accusation...

My first post - and first day here (I followed you home from Audioholics).

For what it's worth, I thought it was an excellent article and, as you apparently intended, it filled in a couple information gaps for me that I had not previously heard. I'm sorry it was not received quite as well by some of the others there. In fact, based in part on your editorial, I ordered the Toshiba unit and expect to get it Tuesday.

I'm with you... I don't understand the acrimony on both sides of the format issue. I hate to call it a format "war", when the only battles are being waged by the observers and the "fans in the stands" - It's like the Generals are waiting to see what the war correspondents decide before making a move.

Anyway, I appreciated the article and I'm glad I found this forum. I still like Audioholics, but lately it seems like some of the more "terse" members are taking over. I hope it calms down.

From what I've seen so far, Home Theater Shack is like a breath of fresh air (Glad I followed you home).

**Sonnie** · **06-30-06, 02:18 AM**

Hey Joe and welcome to the Shack! Glad you followed Wayde over. Yeah... we are trying to be unique in keeping the atmosphere refreshing.

**Tommy** · **06-30-06, 07:02 AM**

Welcome to the site Joe

**Wayde** · **06-30-06, 09:08 AM**

Thanks for the good word Joe. Coming from an Average Joe it means a lot since that's exactly who I try to write for. I seldom have much to say to the L337 kids.

**Phil M** · **07-02-06, 12:17 PM**

Quote:

Wayde wrote:

On the Philips V2000, I've never even heard of it. In the days of VCR I used to be a an in - home TV / VCR / Stereo repair man in the US. I've seen Beta and mostly VHS but never the V2000. Laserdisk starting really coming in when I got out of that business.

Wayde, found this link that explains the V2000 system:
http://v2000.palsite.com/

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