Budget 7.1 Receiver

**hifibuyguy** · **12-01-07, 11:38 PM**

Ok here we go...I'm looking for a budget 7.1 HT receiver and would like some feedback. Room is a small living room, speakers will most likely be stand mounted Monitors with at least one subwoofer.
Here are a few of my must have's

Assignable Surround back speakers to be able to Bi-amp my fronts if needed.

All the latest greatest DTS, Dolby digital formats. I could care less for 27 different hall, jazz, blah blah dsp modes.

I do not need HDMI or the latest HDTV switching..if I get a HDTV it won't be for a while.

Pre-amp outputs for all channel...I plan on using external amps for Front, Rear and Center channels at a later date.

Sound Quality is my first concern

I would love it to have some sort of Pure Direct for 2 Channel music only mode.

I am open to a Pre/Processor

I'm a fan of Pioneer Elite, Yamaha, Denon, Marantz.. but I'm just not up on the latest products..but I'm open to just about any.

Here is the kicker
My budget is under $500 Firm...would like to be in the 350 to 400$ range.

**Sonnie** · **12-02-07, 01:12 AM**

The Onkyo TX-SR605 7.1 Channel Home Theater Receiver is $430 shipped.

It's loaded with features and the only one I know of at this price that can do all it does.

Front Bi-amp capable
DD Plus, TrueHD, DTS-HD Master Audio
Pure Direct

I believe you will end up needing the HDMI... it will decode your DD Plus, TrueHD and DTS-HD

HDMI I/O: 2 / 1
HDMI Version: V1.3
HDMI Bandwidth: 1080p
HDMI Deep Color Capable (36bit)

I don't think a Pre/Pro, Pioneer, Yamaha, Denon, nor Marantz will give you the features you want for less than $500.

**brent_s** · **12-02-07, 10:56 AM**

The 605 lacks preamp outputs.

Mike, if you really don't mind upgrading in the future to get HDMI, I'd look for a Yamaha 659. It was replaced by the 661 mid-2007. OneCall currently has it for $398 delivered, according to PriceGrabber. If you do a bit of legwork, you can probably do even better since the 661 can usually be found near $400 now. Of course, that would also be an argument for going ahead and getting the 661 since it fits your budget as well. Only thing I'm not sure of on the 659/661 is reassigning the back surrond channels for biamping the fronts...not sure how common that feature is on any brand.

-Brent

**brent_s** · **12-02-07, 11:10 AM**

The Yamaha 659 and 661 are also available from the Shack Store for $399 and $499 respectively.

A quick glance at the Yamaha web site for both indicates they can reassign the back surround amps for biamp duty so both meet all of your "must haves".

SQ is subjective, but a buddy of mine replaced a Sherwood-Newcastle AVP-9080, Stereophile Recommended prepro during its day, with a 661 as prepro only and felt like it was a SQ upgrade across the board.

In the interest of for just a little more...around $600-650 the Onkyo 705 becomes a player. It adds THX Select certification, a 3rd HDMI input, and processing for the TrueHD/DTS-HD lossless codecs to the equation. "The Perfect Vision" recently reviewed it and while they had it, compared it to their Anthem separates rig and felt like it more than held it's own.

-Brent

**hifibuyguy** · **12-02-07, 05:16 PM**

What about the entry Emotive pre/pro?

I was even thinking about an older Pioneer Elite? Like I said...the video section does me no good and wont for a few years. I might be able to pick an older unit up at a discount.

**avaserfi** · **12-02-07, 05:23 PM**

Quote:

hifibuyguy wrote:

What about the entry Emotive pre/pro?

The Emotiva's are great for the price - especially when you consider you are getting separates so when you are ready up upgrade you just need to worry about the processor not the power. It is also worth noting their amps test extremely well and should add no coloration to the system.

**hifibuyguy** · **12-02-07, 05:53 PM**

I'm having a look at the two Yamaha's, the 659 and the 661. I found a pretty good price on both that I may not be able to pass up.

I'm looking at the Yamaha web site doing a compare on the two..
the 659 has a little more power..not enough to matter
the 661 has DTS Neo 6, I'm not even sure what that is?
The 659 has a Pure Direct for two channel
and of course the 661 has HDMI

I've found a place that's about $100 difference between the two.
Decisions? I know it's not much of a difference to some to have the HDMI but seeing that it's so close to Xmass I need to save every $ I may have to go with the 659 and not look back.

**tonyvdb** · **12-03-07, 09:18 AM**

I'm going to have to agree with Sonnie on this one, Go with the Onkyo. I have always had a Yamaha preference and for many years thats the only equipment I bought but after recently upgrading to the Onkyo I don't regret it for a second.

**jackfish** · **12-03-07, 10:17 AM**

You can get the Sherwood Newcastle R-772 for $530 which violates your "firm" requirement but gets you a heck of a receiver with HMDI 1.3.

**eugovector** · **12-03-07, 10:22 AM**

Onkyo TX-SR703 is under $500 on the shoponkyo.com site. No HDMI, but everything else you need. I would be tempted to hold out for a good deal on a 705 though, you know you'll want HDMI eventually. Better to buy one receiver now, than one now and one later.

**hifibuyguy** · **12-03-07, 12:45 PM**

I'll have to double check but I don't believe the ONKYO had Pre-amp outs for all channels.
When I do look to a HDTV, I'm not going to want to run video through the Receiver. I will look for a DTV with enough inputs and go Direct. I'm a fan of going direct whenever possible. I'll have a HDTV "cable" box and a HDTV Dvd and that's about it. I'm sure I can find a DTV with at least two HDMI inputs.
I'll take another look at the ONKYO site @ the 703 and research price. I found a number of different places blowing out the Yamaha 659 for $220 + shipping $38, I may not be able to pass that up. If nothing else I'll have a nice bedroom receiver in a few years.

**salvasol** · **12-03-07, 01:15 PM**

Quote:

hifibuyguy wrote:

... I found a number of different places blowing out the Yamaha 659 for $220 + shipping $38, I may not be able to pass that up. If nothing else I'll have a nice bedroom receiver in a few years.

Can you share those places???

I'm planning to get one of those too.

**hifibuyguy** · **12-03-07, 01:28 PM**

Sure, do a search on Ebay and read the feedback on a few...I found 6 or 7 places ranging from $299 to $199 plus shipping.

**brent_s** · **12-03-07, 08:03 PM**

Mike, HDMI is not just for video. When you eventually get that HD-DVD/Blu-Ray/whatever high definition disc source, you'll need HDMI to take advantage of the available lossless audio formats, currently Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD, multi channel PCM...even the higher bitrate DD+ can't pass through a coax/toslink digital interface.

-Brent

**hifibuyguy** · **12-03-07, 09:19 PM**

I'm understanding more..thanks...
Are they(they being the all powerful people who decide for us what we want)going to come out with HDMI 1.4 or what ever is next and make 1.3 obsolete?

**avaserfi** · **12-03-07, 09:25 PM**

Quote:

hifibuyguy wrote:

I'm understanding more..thanks...
Are they(they being the all powerful people who decide for us what we want)going to come out with HDMI 1.4 or what ever is next and make 1.3 obsolete?

On the audio side all HDMI 1.3 added functionality wise is the ability to send bitstream which is no big deal if your player can decoded the HD formats on its own. Using HDMI 1.1 or HDMI 1.2 with a receiver that has HDMI repeating for LPCM 7.1 (some only do 5.1) will let you take full advantage of the HD audio formats without spending an arm and a leg.

So I wouldn't get caught up in the whole numbers game as HDMI 1.3 is nothing special, yet, maybe when deep color comes around and is actually used.

**Terry Duty** · **12-03-07, 10:11 PM**

I'm surpised that no one mentioned Harmon Kardon. My brother and I have both had Onkyo's in the past and for the same amount of money we both feel that Harmon Kardon out perform the Onkyo's for the same price range. Simply more headroom.

**tonyvdb** · **12-04-07, 09:22 AM**

Quote:

brent_s wrote:

...even the higher bitrate DD+ can't pass through a coax/toslink digital interface.

-Brent

Hi Brent, just for your info DD+ will pass over digital coax or toslink. I can confirm this as I had my A2 hooked up this way and it worked fine It shows up as DTS on my receiver. I is my understanding that some HD/BlueRay DVD players wont for some reason but this may just be a firmware fix.

**eugovector** · **12-04-07, 10:06 AM**

Quote:

tonyvdb wrote:

Hi Brent, just for your info DD+ will pass over digital coax or toslink. I can confirm this as I had my A2 hooked up this way and it worked fine It shows up as DTS on my receiver. I is my understanding that some HD/BlueRay DVD players wont for some reason but this may just be a firmware fix.

Unfortunately, that's not the case, you're not hearing DD+. Your A2 is re-encoding the DD+ and DtrueHD as 1.5mbps DTS. It's not as High Fidelity as DD+, but it's theoretically better than 640kbps DD.

Also, it seems the chip that encodes the DD+ as DTS is not present in the A3, so it's not as simple as a firmware upgrade to enable this in other players (unless they have a similar processing unit sitting latent or under utilized).

Episodes 21 and 22 discuss this.

**tonyvdb** · **12-04-07, 11:41 AM**

Hi Brent,
So your saying the DD+ has a higher bitrate than 1.5mbps? Good to know.
Thanks.

**eugovector** · **12-04-07, 11:53 AM**

Here's a good table, shows DD+ bitrate at 1.7-3mbps:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_Digital_Plus#Technical_details

**brent_s** · **12-04-07, 07:50 PM**

Quote:

tonyvdb wrote:

Hi Brent,
So your saying the DD+ has a higher bitrate than 1.5mbps? Good to know.
Thanks.

Actually, that was Marshall that replied regarding how the A2 was decoding and then reencoding the DD+ stream.

But the answer to your question is yes. According to Dolby, max bitrate is 6Mbs...the min for HD-DVD is 3Mbps.

-Brent

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