Automatic Calibration Irks...

[ShnuggMac]

Has anyone else disliked the results they got from their receiver's automatic calibration system? The Audyssey 2EQ that comes with my Onkyo TX-SR605 seemed to be a problem from day one, even for my installer. After running the setup a few times, he couldnt even get the thing to realize that there were certain speakers even hooked up -- he ended up doing the calibration physically.

Today, I decided to play with the mic again and see if it would work; the first time, it read AMBIENT NOISE TOO HIGH....and I had to do it again. The second time around, it did everything right, but the settings were WAAAAAAAAY off our "physical" settings and values; it measured the distance rather wrong from each speaker and made each level really, really low in value....the center channel was pegged to 0dB, which seemed ridiculous, and the sub was at like 1dB, which wouldnt make sense because at +7dB, I am JUST beginning to get my room to shake....

Whats the deal with these auto calibration systems? Do they really work? Is it normal to get different readings each time you run it? And do most of you guys do your calibrations by meter or by ear instead?

[Sonnie]

The Audyssey should be the Auto-EQ... I don't think it's part of the Auto-Setup, but I could be wrong.

It's probably wise to double check them via AVIA or DVE to make sure. It would be good to make sure the DVD player is not having an effect on the levels... since the test tones are built into the receiver and do not flow through the DVD signal path. Generally my sub distance is off a good bit, so I have to adjust it. I've also had them to set my mains to Large when I would rather have them set to Small.

[Rodny Alvarez]

My auto EQ set my subs to 200 or 160 hz and keeps telling me that the mains are not in phase and the center channel, I checked every speaker and they are in phase.

[ShnuggMac]

Yeah guys, I just dont get it; my auto setup also told me that my mains should be set to FULL BAND, which is not so, I dont think, because they're bookshelves and Im running a sub -- this didnt make sense, so I reset them manually to roll off at 80Hz....is doing these settings by yourself the best way?

Sonnie, I believe the Audyssey system is the auto setup system built into my Onkyo; there is also an auto EQ adjust with this setup, but after the wacko results the system gave me today, I didnt even bother to check what Audyssey set the EQ at....

[MatrixDweller]

I have an older Denon 3805. The auto calibration sets the distances correctly for all my speakers except the sub (but that's expected). It makes them sound a little better also by messing witht eh room EQ.

What I don't understand is that it sets all the speakers to +12dB. Why do that? Why not leave them all at 0dB gain. They are pretty sensitive speakers (Klipsch RB81's, RC62) too so it's not like they need lots of power to reach ear bleeding levels.

[Kal Rubinson]

MatrixDweller wrote:

I have an older Denon 3805. The auto calibration sets the distances correctly for all my speakers except the sub (but that's expected).

How do you know the sub distance is incorrect? Audyssey sets the distance to compensate for the processing delays and not the tape-measured distance. As such, it is usually more accurate.

Kal

[Josuah]

Rodny Alvarez wrote:

My auto EQ set my subs to 200 or 160 hz and keeps telling me that the mains are not in phase and the center channel, I checked every speaker and they are in phase.

The red/black things on the back may be correct, but the internal wiring might be reversed. Possible.

[ShnuggMac]

MatrixDweller wrote:

I have an older Denon 3805. The auto calibration sets the distances correctly for all my speakers except the sub (but that's expected). It makes them sound a little better also by messing witht eh room EQ.

What I don't understand is that it sets all the speakers to +12dB. Why do that? Why not leave them all at 0dB gain. They are pretty sensitive speakers (Klipsch RB81's, RC62) too so it's not like they need lots of power to reach ear bleeding levels.

Matrix,

Interesting finds on your Denon; running my Onkyo's auto setup made inaccurate distance settings for most of the speakers including the sub -- I cant comment on the sound because after eyeballing the values it fed in for calibration volume, I canceled the system and reset it manually to my liking once again....

And yes, that setting of "+12dB" seems really really odd for the auto setup, I agree; I dont know why your receiver is pegging EVERY CHANNEL to +12dB; on my Onkyo, 12dB is the highest you can set each channel, and I dont think its recommended to pin that value that high on any channel setting -- this is an interesting find, as when my installer first set everything up with me, and he did not have good luck with the auto setup, he went ahead and dialed the values in manually....he came up with +12dB for the center channel, which seemed ridiculous to me as that was the highest the channel could go, aside from the fact that the front soundstage especially from the center was too overpowering for my room. I since adjusted his settings and dropped that center channel to +9dB....

My automatic calibration system dropped all the channels of my system into what seemed to be too low a range; it came up with 0dB for a few of the channels, and even negative values for the surrounds -- I believe it only gave my sub a +1 dB value. This did not seem right to me -- while you say +12 seemed to irk you for all channels, I agree, but I dont think 0dB is correct either; I mean, wouldnt that suggest too weak an output from that channel?

How do these auto calibration systems come to their findings? I mean, why are the values completely different sometimes when you run the system a few times? How do we know what's correct?

[ShnuggMac]

Kal Rubinson wrote:

How do you know the sub distance is incorrect? Audyssey sets the distance to compensate for the processing delays and not the tape-measured distance. As such, it is usually more accurate.

Kal

Kal,

This is something that is confusing to me; I thought by doing the tape-measured distance, you ARE allowing for processing delays -- isnt this the POINT of entering in, physically, the distances from each speaker to the sweet spot? You're telling me that there is a difference between what we measure in feet from the speaker to the primary listening seat as what the auto setup system sets for processing delays?

[Kal Rubinson]

ShnuggMac wrote:

Kal,

This is something that is confusing to me; I thought by doing the tape-measured distance, you ARE allowing for processing delays -- isnt this the POINT of entering in, physically, the distances from each speaker to the sweet spot? You're telling me that there is a difference between what we measure in feet from the speaker to the primary listening seat as what the auto setup system sets for processing delays?

Yes. The tape measure cannot account for processing delays in the bass management and other processing mechanisms which add to whatever physical distance there is. Think about it: What if the amp delays the LFE/sub channel signal by 5ms? That's the same as being about 5 feet farther away.

Kal

[Rodny Alvarez]

Josuah wrote:

The red/black things on the back may be correct, but the internal wiring might be reversed. Possible.

I know they are correct because I used a battery to test the speakers!!

[MatrixDweller]

So should I leave the subwoofer distance as what the Auto EQ set it at. I think it had it at 15 feet away when it was only 9. All the other speakers were bang on almost to the inch.

I would think that +12dB on all channels cancels out the effect. It would pretty much be the equivalent of turning up the main volume dial 12dB since all channels are increased by that much.

The surrounds and fronts are the same speakers, RB81's, but the fronts are about 9 feet away from the mic and the surrounds are about 5½ feet away. You would think that if all channels where put up to +12dB the speakers would be equidistant.

Maybe the settings will change when I move the stuff into their dedicated room. That "should" happen in a couple weeks. I'll repost the result when I do.

[ACGREEN]

Yamaha uses their own Auto-EQ. If I set the front speakers to large, it is accurate except for the sub. From what i have read, this was a problem with the first generation of Yamaha's with the Auto-EQ but was corrected with the second generation.

[ShnuggMac]

Maybe Im just not getting this....

If we DONT run auto setup, we're SUPPOSED to measure with a tape or stick or estimate the distance from each channel to the sweet spot -- and this would be "acceptable"....BUT, the auto setup allows for processing delays, adding to the values we would have ordinarily found?

So what is the right way of doing it? The manuals suggest, if doing physical calibration, that we just estimate in feet the distance....but the auto routine changes these parameters.

So who's right??

Im thinking of running the auto cal again now....

[ShnuggMac]

MatrixDweller wrote:

So should I leave the subwoofer distance as what the Auto EQ set it at. I think it had it at 15 feet away when it was only 9. All the other speakers were bang on almost to the inch.

I would think that +12dB on all channels cancels out the effect. It would pretty much be the equivalent of turning up the main volume dial 12dB since all channels are increased by that much.

The surrounds and fronts are the same speakers, RB81's, but the fronts are about 9 feet away from the mic and the surrounds are about 5½ feet away. You would think that if all channels where put up to +12dB the speakers would be equidistant.

Maybe the settings will change when I move the stuff into their dedicated room. That "should" happen in a couple weeks. I'll repost the result when I do.

Right, Matrix....you would think that with all values set to ONE value, the speakers would ALL be equidistant....perhaps your system is finding that your speakers ARE equidistant....are they?