Integra8.8 vs NAD785 vs Denon4308

**John Simpson** · **12-15-07, 06:13 PM**

Hi all,

Very interested in user opinions and reviews of the following high-end "consumer" receivers:

Denon AVR-4308CI

NAD T785

Integra DTR-8.8

It's interesting to see the latest awards from Sound & Image magazine (Australia) completely ignored the Denon and NAD, and gave the Receiver of the Year > $4000 to the Integra. I understand that Integra is the equivalent of "hand-picked" Onkyo electronics, and that they've always been well regarded. But to not even mention the new Denon range seems weird... perhaps their release missed the award cut-off?

In any event, are there any recommendations of these three? I'll be using the unit purely as a processor, feeding my bank of ME550 power amps.

Thanks!

**Sonnie** · **12-15-07, 07:24 PM**

Those sure look like three good ones. I wonder if you might be paying for a lot of power that you will never use.

**John Simpson** · **12-16-07, 12:47 AM**

Yep, currently I've got the equivalent of seven monoblocks of amplifiers. If I decide to bi-amp the front three speakers, I still need amplification for five of the six surround speakers (total = 9.4 system).

I had toyed with the idea of just replacing my Denon pre-amp processor with another pre-amp, but I'd then have to go out and buy more power amps.

Geez... how complicated does all that sound? How do the non-enthusiasts deal with all this?

**Hakka** · **12-16-07, 01:09 AM**

I haven't heard too much about the NAD but on paper its pretty hard to go past the Denon, the Audyssey Pro and Audyssey Dynamic EQ are not available in the others (maybe the NAD has Audyssey Pro??), the Audyssey implementation in the Onkyo/Integra could be better, I've read a lot of complaints about A/V sync when using Audyssey.

Here in Australia the Denon 3803 is 2x the price of the Integra AVR, and I'm still leaning towards the Denon, I understand that in USA they are priced evenly.

Hakka.

**odonata** · **12-17-07, 11:29 AM**

I have to agree on the Denon line's specs as compared to the competitors. Out of the three, I have heard the Integra 7.8 but not the 8.8 and the Denon 3808 but not the 4308ci. I do, however, follow the various related threads pretty closely because I am soon to be in the market for a receiver in that price range for my new home theater. Based on what I have read I am strongly leaning toward the 4308ci despite some possible on-going firmware issues. Of course in a "perfect" world I'd be going with the 5308ci or possibly the Yammy RX-V11, or separates but that ain't happening given the finances.
Back to reality... a buddy of mine has the Integra 7.7 and I've been impressed with the sound even though we mostly watch sports or play Wii when I'm over there. Although we have listened to XM radio and CD music occasionally, he only has it hooked up 2.1 in his very small, very cramped, acoustically horrible livingroom.
The 3808ci I have auditioned in listening rooms in two separate dealerships. One was less than ideal because of its location in the middle of store traffic, although it was paired with a good Blu-ray player, high-end Panny monitor and a nice Definitive Technology speaker system. It was nearly impossible to judge sound but the features and HDMI switching were what I would have expected. I also tried listening to some 2-channel music off CD but it was too chaotic in the store to really get a true feel for the dimensions of the soundstage, etc.
The second situation was a better one with an enclosed, acoustically treated listening room and the ability to switch between speakers and other receivers for comparison. I watched and listened to the Neil Young "Heart of Gold" DVD over a Paradigm Reference Millenia Series set-up and briefly compared the 3808ci to a Pioneer Elite VSX-84TX and Sony STR-DA5300ES. No comparsion, in my opinion, the 3808ci sounded much richer with a far broader soundstage than the other two with fairly similar processor settings and no processing at all.
As with any audio/video comparison, "your results may vary" according to your personal listening and viewing preferences. All three, the 4308ci, 8.8 and T785 appear to be excellent receivers, each with its own sets of pros and cons. For my money, though, the Denon still stands out (at least in that price range in the US market) especially given the feature sets/specs, connectivity, A/V processing and (to the extent realistically possible) future-proofing. And, after all, isn't that what really distinguishes today's receivers?
There again, considering these three as pre-pro's not receivers may be a whole other discussion.

**John Simpson** · **12-22-07, 06:55 PM**

Well, I took the plunge yesterday and put a deposit down on a black Denon AVR-4308CI. I've been a long time Denon fan, so the choice was pretty clear (despite the huge pricing issue here in Australia -- cost me $4250, or US$3740, even with a 15% retailer discount).

I'll post pics on the Wychwood thread when it arrives...

**Magyar** · **12-26-07, 11:28 AM**

Quote:

Hakka wrote:

I haven't heard too much about the NAD but on paper its pretty hard to go past the Denon, the Audyssey Pro and Audyssey Dynamic EQ are not available in the others (maybe the NAD has Audyssey Pro??), the Audyssey implementation in the Onkyo/Integra could be better, I've read a lot of complaints about A/V sync when using Audyssey.

Here in Australia the Denon 3803 is 2x the price of the Integra AVR, and I'm still leaning towards the Denon, I understand that in USA they are priced evenly.

Hakka.

What AV sync? I've yet to see that, and I use Audyssey with my Integra all the time. There are some issues with some cable STBs and DVRs, but I watch very little TV.

**Magyar** · **12-26-07, 11:37 AM**

Quote:

John Simpson wrote:

Well, I took the plunge yesterday and put a deposit down on a black Denon AVR-4308CI. I've been a long time Denon fan, so the choice was pretty clear (despite the huge pricing issue here in Australia -- cost me $4250, or US$3740, even with a 15% retailer discount).

I'll post pics on the Wychwood thread when it arrives...

Ouch! For that money I could bought the Integra DTC 9.8 pre/pro and the Emotiva or Outlaw 7 channel[200w/ch] amp, and that's without discount. Why such a big price difference in Australia?

I hope you're gonna really like the Denon. I used to own several Denon receivers in the past used only as preamps, but I'm very happy with my Integra Pre/pro, and unlike others I dig HDMI.

BTW where is the "Wychwood thread"?

Thanks.

**Hakka** · **12-26-07, 11:43 PM**

The Aussie distributors are rorting us on the Denon prices.

There has been numerous reports of AV sync whe using Audyssey on the Onkyos. Some people aren't sensitive to it and it might not be noticeable on a smaller screen. There is some discussion in the 875 thread at AVS if you want more info, no solution though, it seems to be related to the processing power of the AVR.

Hakka.

**Magyar** · **12-27-07, 03:43 PM**

Quote:

Hakka wrote:

The Aussie distributors are rorting us on the Denon prices.

There has been numerous reports of AV sync whe using Audyssey on the Onkyos. Some people aren't sensitive to it and it might not be noticeable on a smaller screen. There is some discussion in the 875 thread at AVS if you want more info, no solution though, it seems to be related to the processing power of the AVR.

Hakka.

Yes I'm aware of those threads, and they all involve cable boxes and DVR's which I also use and observed some of the lipsync issue with only on some channels. But it has nothing to do with the Audyssey per se, but it has more to do with the fact that the audio gets processed hence the delay and the video may not be, like those who bypass the Reon on the 875. Onkyo should include a delay setting that affects the video not the audio as it currently has.

**oldeio** · **02-11-08, 07:01 PM**

oldeio says,I am looking at buying the nad 785 I hope it can move my new psb synchrony surrond speakers?????

**Tony G** · **02-11-08, 07:32 PM**

Quote:

oldeio wrote:

oldeio says,I am looking at buying the nad 785 I hope it can move my new psb synchrony surrond speakers?????

I was a proud Nad owner at one time a few years back and really loved it's sound. The power is tremendous...

TG

**oldeio** · **03-18-08, 09:58 PM**

I bought the NAD 25 power amp and the Nad T175 preamp to power my Synchrony surrond system.The NAD amp is sweet and powerful .The T 175 employs Audyssey auto calibration and was a snap to use.The PSB Synchrony speakers are --1 towers--TWO center---S surrond---SubSonic 10 sub by PSB.The NAD t 585 DIGITAL dISK pLAYER.pUT ALL THIS TOGETHER and you have a great system.

**lienly** · **04-01-08, 04:28 AM**

where to read those reviews on web? tks

Quote:

John Simpson wrote:

Hi all,

Very interested in user opinions and reviews of the following high-end "consumer" receivers:

It's interesting to see the latest awards from Sound & Image magazine (Australia) completely ignored the Denon and NAD, and gave the Receiver of the Year > $4000 to the Integra. I understand that Integra is the equivalent of "hand-picked" Onkyo electronics, and that they've always been well regarded. But to not even mention the new Denon range seems weird... perhaps their release missed the award cut-off?

Thanks!

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