Which is better Onkyo TX-NR905 or Denon AVR-4308Ci?

**Luclambert** · **01-13-08, 01:27 PM**

Hi Shack

I am changing receiver in my theater room mainly because i want to have the sound resolution that Blu-ray and HD DVD has to offer. Which is better Onkyo TX-NR905 or Denon AVR-4308Ci? I live too far from any distributor to be able to listen to them for myself. My price range is around $2000.00 and after doing some homework i found that they are the one that has all the bells and whistles that will be around for the coming years. Denon has WiFi but not Ultra THX2. The AVR-4308CI uses Faroudja DCDi for upscaling whereas the Onkyo TX-NR905 uses a HQV Reon. I've heard that HQV is a better video processing choice. Onkyo has toroidal transformer which i like but a Denon is... well... a Denon. I've been hearing the praise of Denon for years but not much about Onkyo. Over all, the OnKyo seems to me to be a better receiver but i am concerned about the sound quality since i never heard much about Onkyo before.

What would you do???

Thanks for your input

**jerome** · **01-13-08, 02:38 PM**

Go for the Onkyo, that's my advice. Their new receivers get praised everywhere.
Onkyo receivers, especially the 905 has one of the best 2-channel sound stage you can get in a receiver (well, without going to the pricey Yamaha Z11

). The Onkyo receiver has a neutral, well balanced sound and has more power than the 4308.

In several side-by-side tests I have read, Onkyo receivers are always coming way ahead of the Denon ones (for comparable prices).

You should also check out the Yamaha RX-V3800 and Pioneer VSX-LX70 or 90. These are very good too

If you only want to watch movies then I would strongly consider the Yamaha RX-V3800 ...

**Sonnie** · **01-13-08, 02:58 PM**

If I was going to spend the money, no doubt I would choose the Onkyo for my setup. I like the toroidal transformers and the 4 independent power supplies. It can be setup for 4 ohm speakers and is rated to 3 ohms, which will give you more flexibility for various speakers. As far as features, they both are loaded.

**tonyvdb** · **01-13-08, 03:05 PM**

I also say get the Onkyo, I have been totally satisfied with my TX SR805. Its the cleanest and most feature rich receiver I have ever heard for the money.

**Luclambert** · **01-13-08, 03:58 PM**

I know that it has more features and more power but i'm a bit worried about firmware updates! I've heard about the demise of the TX-NR1000. There's a lot of unhappy campers that bought Onkyo's flagship with promises of future upgradabilities just to be let down in the end. I guess this doesn't really applies here because it is, after all, a totally different kind of upgrade but still this is scary at best.. I have to admit though that i am more inclined towards the NR905 still. Man, i really wish i could hear them

**Sonnie** · **01-13-08, 05:36 PM**

I'd venture to say you probably wouldn't notice much of a difference in how they sound ... if any difference at all. Of course that might also depend on what speakers you are driving and how hard you drive them... that's when the Onkyo might set itself apart from some others.

**Sonnie** · **01-14-08, 01:36 AM**

Since you are considering spending that much money... look at the NAD T785 as well. I see it at street prices of about $2200. You may find one less by calling around to various dealers.

**Dionyz** · **01-16-08, 08:31 PM**

Last month when I was auditioning Klipsch RF-83, I listened to them with Yamaha 3800, Onkyo 905 and Denon 3808.

With the Yamaha and Onkyo, the RF-83 sounded incredible - lots of detail and dynamic sound.

When I switched to the Denon, the RF-83s sounded like a different speaker.
Gone was the detailed and dynamic sound. It seemed as if someone had covered the speakers with a blanket. I also had the turn up the volume way up to get decent sound level. An mind you the RF-83s have 100 dB/watt efficiency.

Thus at least with the Klipsch speakers, the Denon 3808 was a poor match.

It is possible that with other speakers it performs better. I do not know, as I did not try other speakers as I was auditioning the RF-83s, which I bought.

**Luclambert** · **01-16-08, 09:45 PM**

Anyone try the Pioneer Elite VSX-94TXH? It seems to have some pretty good spec. I wasn't aware that they had this receiver. Can it be as good as the Onkyo or the Yamaha? I'm starting to wonder...

Help

**Hakka** · **01-16-08, 11:34 PM**

I'd go for the Denon myself. Audyssey XT PRO, Audyssey dynamic EQ, Onkyo only has Audyssey XT.
I've read of some bugs with the Onkyo's such as AV sync when using Audyssey, heat buildup.

Hakka.

**Hakka** · **01-16-08, 11:37 PM**

Am I reading it wrong or does the NAD NOT decode the new audio codecs??

Hakka.

**jerome** · **01-17-08, 12:23 AM**

You read it correctly. Maybe it's last year's model and they are working on a new one with support for HD

**Sonnie** · **01-17-08, 12:26 AM**

That is correct... most players are doing the decoding, therefore it is not necessary.

It is also upgradeable and they have already had a couple of updates. They can add the decoding if they so desire.

**conchyjoe7** · **01-17-08, 01:41 PM**

A lot of people seem thrilled with their Onkyos, but when I went to the "Shack Store" right here and read the owners reviews with Onkyo, I was shocked and surprised that so many owners in their reviews of the 875 have had theirs literally catch on fire. http://www.hometheatershack.com/elec..._Receiver.html
That's a little scary folks...
Konky.

**Sonnie** · **01-17-08, 02:07 PM**

There have been quite a few complaints on the heat generated by some of the Onkyo receivers. There are also over 3100 posts in the official 875 thread over at AVS. I suspect there are over 100 owners in that one thread alone and none have reported a fire that I could find. Considering the good reviews at Amazon, I might look at those couple with suspect mind.

**conchyjoe7** · **01-17-08, 02:36 PM**

Based on what you've said; I agree...I wasn't endorsing or validating, I was merely reporting on what I had observed here at "the shack".
Cheers,
Konky.

**tonyvdb** · **01-17-08, 09:01 PM**

Quote:

conchyjoe7 wrote:

I was shocked and surprised that so many owners in their reviews of the 875 have had theirs literally catch on fire.

Its very possible that these people did not give it good airflow. The size alone will restrict where you can place it. I highly doubt that they followed the instructions to keep it in a space where it can breath. My Onkyo gets warm but not so hot that its in danger of catching fire or for that matter to cause me concern. I dont think its wise to put any receiver or amp in a position where its not open on the top or has other equipment giving off heat below them.

**Luclambert** · **02-18-08, 03:51 AM**

Well i ended up buying a Pioneer ELITE VSX-94TX and I'm not sure if i'm happy with the choice. The reason i went for Pioneer is 2 fold: Onkyo overheating and Denon not THX certified. Pioneer had everything that Onkyo and Denon had except for one thing that i found out later..... POWER!!!!

I was using a Kenwood VR-9070 and the reason for upgrade was obvious for me: i needed to connect my Blu-ray player, my HD-DVD player and my HD receiver through the HDMI (also my game consoles) so that i have the best sound and picture With just once cable to go to my projector (Optoma HD78DC3). To my surprise, I found that the 140 watts described in the spec. was not even as loud as my 100 watts Kenwood receiver!!!! What the heck is wrong with that??? I haven't really seen a discernable difference in the sound. Before you ask, my speakers : Energy Speakers Systems, the Connoisseur series. My main speakers: two C-9 (flagship of the series), 2 C-3 bookshelf (surround), one C-C1 center channel and one C-R3 rear channel(I'm getting the other one soon for 7.2) and 2 Sub from Bic America V1520 (15" down firing). On 2 channels, it shines but on 6.2 it's not what i expected. I thought i would have ample power with the 140 watts rating but i finally found that the pioneer do not deliver 140 watts with all the channels on. I figured that since this was the flagship of Pioneer it would be a good buy(considering the price too) but now i wish i had bought the Onkyo regardless on the heat generation.

I must say though that after using the Advanced MCACC, it did sounded better by a big margin. The dynamic and range was finally there putting it just a step ahead of my old receiver. I like all the features it has and overall, it is a great receiver but the thing is..... I can ran my receiver at full power without haveing to wear plugs!!

Maybe there is something wrong with the receiver.........

P.S. I've just found out that this is not Pioneer's flaship. They just came out with the Pioneer Elite SC-09TXH with a retail price of $8000.00 !!! Quite a step between the two (over 6K).

**conchyjoe7** · **02-18-08, 03:03 PM**

Luc...Return it if you can and you're not happy. Boy, these kinds of remarks are really going to throw the objectivists (all black boxes sound the same) into tizzies explaining once again how ignorant the rest of us are that we think we can hear a difference (especially those really really ignorant of us that KNOW we can hear a difference). Luc, sorry you don't like the Pioneer, but if you can; you should return it for something else. First however, do make sure that you have the channel levels up in whichever menu controls that on yours. Those Energys are very good speakers, and really should not present either a difficult or particularly inefficient load to the receiver which in all honesty should be capable of raising the roof with those speakers, so look in that menu first (actually look in all of them)...I suspect everything is turned down.
Good luck,
Konky.

**Luclambert** · **02-18-08, 06:03 PM**

Maybe i've been too harsh...

When it first came out of the box, the first thing i tried was "Desires" by Ozzy Osbourne Live and Loud on on SD-DVD. The reason is that i've played this song with different set up over the years to test the quality of the speakers. The bass lines at the beginning of the song (2 channels) are brutal sounding, hitting you through your body but at the same time you can hear the sound of the string hitting the neck and frets on the guitar!!! With my energy speakers btw, without subwoofer half off the sound was lost because of the limitation of the speakers themselves. Without a good subwoofer, You cannot perceive what i'm trying to describe here. But let's go back to the point; with the Kenwood VR9070 I could not drive it to -10 db while with the VSX-95TX i could. I can tell that the spl is definitely lower in the room. In the setup menu, I increased the db level of all channel by 3 DB (they were all at 0 Db before). While it was better, it was very similar to the output of the VR-9070. As for the sound, apart from the bass lines at the beginning it's not really the best song to test anything else regarding sound

. So i put in "Stream of consciousness" by Dream Theater Live at Budokan and that put the grin back on my face. The sound was very detailed. Boy, those C-9 can deliver! Two channels on Pioneer is a very enjoyable experience.

As i said, I love the features and all but it is not as spowerfull (personal opinion). Here what SoundandVisionmag have to say about it:
Quotes:"Pioneer's latest receiver produced uniformly excellent bench results: Linearity and S/N were close to perfect on both PCM and Dolby Digital signals, while distortion and frequency response were nearly as good (the latter, in particular, on 96/24 PCM). Power output was generous in 2- and 1-channel tests, and the 94TXH was happy enough driving 4-ohm loads. With 5 and 7 channels driven, and its clamping circuitry in full effect, it fell well short of 100 watts per channel, but the result was still better than some receivers of similar ratings we've seen, and in any event, this is of no real-world consequence."

Also i wasn't trying to give fuel people that believe that sound is all the same. The Kenwood VR-9070 was a good receiver for the money back then. It was THX certified. It had 6.1 channel with component output but it also was 9 years old. Back then, It was a mid-range that could deliver some pretty good sound hence the reason why it's more difficult, for me anyway, to see an outstanding difference in sound quality. After doing the Advanced MCACC the sound was definitely better than the Kenwood no doubt on this but my complain was mainly about power output not the sound.

**lienly** · **04-01-08, 03:20 AM**

don't know how easy is to return goods in CA thou it's quite easy in US.

Pio 09 is so far the most expensive JP brand v1.3 AV amp!!!

that's out of my budget. it can drive at 4 ohms, but only L/R channels, not rest 5 ch.

by comparison, 905 is a much bargain choice.

all 7 channels at 4 ohms, no problem to drive my Westlake.

but its HDMI handshake is a headache with Tosh 62DLP even upgraded to newest v1.08 FW. I still have to use HDCP remover. BTW, the FW upgrade is a hell trouble in this gen of Onkyo!

**** far inconvenience!!!

905 run very hot at 53C, but put a PC fan on top can cool it easily.

anyway, enjoy your Pio 94.

Quote:

Luclambert wrote:

Well i ended up buying a Pioneer ELITE VSX-94TX and I'm not sure if i'm happy with the choice. The reason i went for Pioneer is 2 fold: Onkyo overheating and Denon not THX certified. Pioneer had everything that Onkyo and Denon had except for one thing that i found out later..... POWER!!!!

I thought i would have ample power with the 140 watts rating but i finally found that the pioneer do not deliver 140 watts with all the channels on. I figured that since this was the flagship of Pioneer it would be a good buy(considering the price too) but now i wish i had bought the Onkyo regardless on the heat generation.

P.S. I've just found out that this is not Pioneer's flaship. They just came out with the Pioneer Elite SC-09TXH with a retail price of $8000.00 !!! Quite a step between the two (over 6K).

**be83663** · **04-02-08, 08:55 PM**

Quote:

lienly wrote:

don't know how easy is to return goods in CA thou it's quite easy in US.

Pio 09 is so far the most expensive JP brand v1.3 AV amp!!!

that's out of my budget. it can drive at 4 ohms, but only L/R channels, not rest 5 ch.

by comparison, 905 is a much bargain choice.

all 7 channels at 4 ohms, no problem to drive my Westlake.

but its HDMI handshake is a headache with Tosh 62DLP even upgraded to newest v1.08 FW. I still have to use HDCP remover. BTW, the FW upgrade is a hell trouble in this gen of Onkyo!

**** far inconvenience!!!

905 run very hot at 53C, but put a PC fan on top can cool it easily.

anyway, enjoy your Pio 94.

Hi, I am thinking of buying Onkyo TX-NR905 also and connect it to 7 4-ohms Polk Audio LSi speakers. People I have spoken to in Polk Audio forum were telling me that 905 won't be able to handle the speakers. How long have you been using the set-up you described with 4-ohms speakers and how loud can you play without causing a problem to your Westlake speakers? Do you think that I need to get an external amplifier for seven 4-ohms speakers or 905 would be fine if I am going to play at moderate loud volume level in my apartment setting? Thank you! Ken.

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