Slaughter House Cinemas (Project Thread)

[bpape]

In the proper density for the proper usages, it can be just as effective. It's certainly less expensive but IMO it's a LOT harder to work with, cut cleanly, etc. than 703.

If you're looking to make bass absorbers, I always have seconds of 703 that can be more reasonably priced and work just fine when you don't need perfectly square corners, etc. Sometimes, I get cartons where the edge has been banged up, corner munched, etc. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about depending on what you need.

Let me know.

Bryan

[carls64]

Well what I am planning on everything will be behind the false wall except for the panels I make for the walls, but for now I am going to start with the base traps in the corners and cover the rear of the screen wall.

[bpape]

Either will work fine. The 703 seconds will be much easier to cut into triangles cleanly. They'll still be a bit more expensive than mineral wool and there will be more cutting as the 703 is 2" thick. All a matter of time and hassle vs. money.

Bryan

[carls64]

can you tell me or PM me what it would cost? The more I look a the other fabric offerings around and the fact i do not need that much material, I think I would be happier to get some GOM instead of say Dazian, I got a couple samples of their Expo and Celtic cloth and the Expo has a strange pattern in it and it has a bit of a sheen. The Celtic cloth is thicker but It seems to block some sound. I think I only need about 6-8 yards at 66"

I have the sides which are 22" the top is 3-4" and the bottom is 23". So top to bottom is 22"x89" with a couple inches for overlap to staple. So I figure 3 yards to do both sides, then the middle section top and bottom subtracting 22 each side, 153-44=109 so another 2 yards to do the top and bottom, I get 5 yards, 6 for good measure in case of mistakes ;-)

[bpape]

You have PM.

[carls64]

Ok per my previous posts I have moved the screen away from the wall about 2' this will give me room for some acoustical treatments and bass traps behind the screen and flush mount the speakers and subs, and hide them I planned on taking pictures but both my cameras are in Florida with the wife .

Here are pictures I took with my iPhone sorry for the quality.









Basically I ran me a 2x4 nailers (2 - 6') across the ceiling with the front edge 2' then I 2 - 2x4's on the ends of where the screen goes, leaving me a 1" over hand for mounting frames of GOM. The I used 2 - 2x2's evenly spaced behind the screen for the screen mounts, and two more close to the walls on either side, this will give me a surface to mount the frames. All 6 boards are then anchored to the floor. This give me more than enough support for the screen and the frames to cover the wall.

So I now have 2' of space behind the screen, and my screen is about 2'2" away fro the wall now. This will conceal the insulating material that I will use the in the corners and wall, as well as the speakers and the subs, and wall outlets.

I am going to get with bpape this week to get some 703 and order some GOM, that will give me time to make my frames for the GOM.

Not bad work for one day, about 6 hours. Had to disconnect all the speakers, move the speakers, move the screen. Measure, drill paint the boards, drill and screen, and drill into the concrete and anchored the supports to the floor. And put the screen back up. I am slow

[carls64]

Well I created a problem for myself, moving the screen closer to the projector has almost exceeded the zoom of the lens. I have about another foot before the lens is at its extreme of 2.0x.

Now my question is, is it better to be on the 2x side or the 1 x side for best image quality? If I move the camera back to the equipment rack, placing it inside the rack area I would be close to the 1x extreme, by about the same as I am now where the projector is, I could build a box/shelf moving it forward from the rack about 1 1/2 foot that would put me back in the "sweet" spot for the zoom? Any thoughts?

If i move it back from where it is at it will be right above the rear seats, and I know someone will hit their head on it for sure. Oh what a delema.

[tenzip]

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe the best PQ is at minimum zoom, closer to the 1x end. Get some other, more definitive opinions before going with that, though.

Whatever you do, don't mount it so that you are right at either extreme, it's always good to have a little adjustment.

The screen/mounting looks really nice, by the way. You're going to make a false wall even with the screen out of the GOM? Or maybe I should go back and read some of the earlier posts.

[carls64]

tenzip wrote:

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe the best PQ is at minimum zoom, closer to the 1x end. Get some other, more definitive opinions before going with that, though.

Ya that seems to be the concensious, although I have ready that you really don;t want to be at eather end, but if I move it back to where the equipment area is, as long as I can clear the overhand where the projector is now and miss the heads of the people in the second row, I would be at about 1.10x zoom at 22'

tenzip wrote:

Whatever you do, don't mount it so that you are right at either extreme, it's always good to have a little adjustment.

Right, at 1.10x I may have about a foot to play with. It will be easy to try it as mounting it on a shelf will be easy compared to how its mounted now, and it will be quieter as the projector will be behind us!

tenzip wrote:

The screen/mounting looks really nice, by the way. You're going to make a false wall even with the screen out of the GOM? Or maybe I should go back and read some of the earlier posts.

Correct, I am going to get to work on the frames for the 4 section that will be GOM'ed as well as the back wall being hit with some 703 ;-)

[carls64]

Well I have moved the projector back to the equipment rack area in the wall. And I have about 1.5 foot of adjustment left on the long end and I have to say I like this location MUCH better, I do not think I would have been able to accomplish this if I had not moved the screen. So it all seems to have worked out well.

I was able to spend a little time watching some material to get an idea of the perspective now that the screen is 2'closer to the first row. I like the fact the screen appears to be bigger now, more like I was hoping for originally.

Based on THIS for my projector the optimum viewing distance was 12-19' and sitting in the front row it seems to be a bit far for me, and the second row was of course even further.

I will try and take some photos tonight of what I did. All in all I am very happy I did this, it gets the projector off the ceiling and away from everyone viewing so I am sure it will be quieter that it was having the projector hanging overhead

[carls64]

Well a BIG thank you to bpape for setting me up with some 703 for my bass traps and front screen wall. Sure beast paying for shipping, and I was happy to finally meet Bryan. I can now get started cutting my triangles. Going to watch a movie or two with a friend tonight. It will be the first time now that the screen has been moved. Almost forgot to re-calibrate the speakers.

[bpape]

Have fun Carl. Don't forget to post some pics.

Bryan

[carls64]

I only have my iPhone right now to take pictures but I will take what I can, it may have to wait until December when I am back from Sunny Florida!

I will take pictures of the entire process, from cutting to mounting so others can see how to, I know from my experience I have never found progress photos so I am sure there are some details that would be useful. bpape gave me some good advice on making some guides for the 703 triangles to keep them in place, by cutting some 5/8 or 3/4" plywood or MDF in 1-2" strips and run them the height of the wall/corner cut at a 45 degree on both side, it gives you a guide to install the 703 as well as a surface to staple/mount your GOM in the event you are not walling in the end of your room. I believe I am going to just use some binding cord/string from top to bottom and force an extra piece of 703 in at the top to pressure fit it all to keep it in place. Not sure yet how to mount the panels to the front wall, but bpape also said that just screwing it to the wall with some 3 1/2" drywall screws and fender washers would work. Not sure I would want to glue it to the wall or not.

[carls64]

I have all my triangles cut for my front wall bass traps, now I have to lug them down the basement, that will be another night. All in all it was very easy to do, with the right tool. You need a extendable "razor" knife. The kind that has the retractable blade that you can break off the section as the point gets dull. This way you can cut right through the 2" 703 with ease.
The one I used came from ACE. They had a cheep plastic one for $2.79 that had 2 extra blades, but they had a heavy duty one for $4.79 that included 6 blades, and the blades were $3.79 for 4 blades so I figured I got a deal

Here are the photos of the process:

Who is this masked man!


One "Razor" knife from ACE


Measure over 24" on the long 48" side to make 2' x 2' squares.


Use a straight edge and cut through for your first cut. Also you will want to ware a long sleeve shirt and paints and a pair of gloves, this stuff gets all over when you are cutting and moving it around. I also highly recommend a mask, suitable for working with fiberglass insulation, you don't want to be breathing this stuff. Scary to think I am going to put it in an enclosed room


Next make your diagonal cuts from corner to corner of the 2' squares. I recommend that you cut almost to the end, then turn around and cut back toward the point where you stopped from the opposite corner to avoid "tearing" the corners out as you see here.


Make your next corner to corner cut.


Do this to both "squares". Also I found that using a piece of cardboard helped me make the cuts without cutting into another sheet of 703, and it provided a good base to where the material stayed together while cutting. It also provided a nice cutting surface.


Wedge removed.


92 completed wedges


Almost a match


I need about 44 for each corner but I measured the thickness and it was not quite 2" so I think I will need 45 in order to fill the corners. Next I will have to take down the screen again to install the 703 in the corners and to cover the wall. I also notices when I measured for the frames that will go around the screen that I am off about 1/4 on the right top corner, and it is throwing all the corners off by 1/2" so I will need to re-measure my screen mounts so I do not have to make fancy cuts on my frames.

I have 7 yards of GOM ordered from bpape to finish the frames, I hope to have the insulation in and the frames done by the time it gets here. More pictures maybe tomorrow, I am done for the night. "scratch"

[thewire]

Nice work. That mask will come in handy with the installation and cleanup also. I usually wait a good 24 hours before entering the room after working with fiberglass, or I watch the movie with it on. I like to duct tape mine to my face since it did not have the nice support on them like yours.

[carls64]

I am not sure how I am going to keep the 703 in place, I don't want to use a spray adhesive in case I ever want to remove it, and re-use it, this stuff is not cheep! So I think I am going to run me two pieces of string from the top to the bottom in each corner to hole the wedges in place and tack it in place.

For the section that will be mounted to the wall I will use some 3" drywall screws and some styrene plastic sheet cut into 1 to 1/2-2" squares and run through the 703 in the four corners into the drywall behind. I will be putting this on the front wall and if I have enough scrap I will put some on the side walls and ceiling in the 2' cavity so the whole front wall in its 2' confinement will be "killed" with 703.

bpape also suggested that I raise the subs off the floor about 11" I am not sure he knew that the floor is concrete or not, but if he is reading he can let me know. I will build some platforms out of 3/4" MDF and 2x4's that will get them off the floor and more behind the screen.

I will take some more pictures tonight of the process. I will also start working on the frames to be covered by GOM to fill in around the screen and cover the 703 and false wall. I have some 1"x2" boards that seem to be pretty straight, I am not planning on being fancy as I have seen some others do, by mitering the corners or using a tool to drill countersunk diagonal holes and screw them together, I am going to glue and use some 3" brad nails in my air nailer I may even lay the boards on edge for my strength and it will give me a 2" depth on the frame where then the screen will be slightly inset in the wall rather then outset as the screen is about 1 1/2" thick

[carls64]

Well all the 703 is up, and I am currently working on the frames to go around the screen area. I will post some photos tonight of the progress. I had to get creative account where the breaker box was as the 703 was covering the box. I cut 4 pieces of cardboard into triangles and glues them to the 703, and a 7 piece section of 704 along with a strap to grab a hold of. This makes a wedge of 703 the size of the breaker box so I can pull it out when I need to get to the box.
I am waiting for my black GOM to arrive, I should be ready for it tonight when I complete the frames. I did not take photos of the construction part, but I will take some pictures of the completed frames to show the construction before I paint them and cover them with the GOM.

I discovered when I leveled the screen mounts that the laser level I had the bubble was off so I had to use a regular level on top of the laser level to get the mounts straight. I was about 1/4 off on the right side as a result. Now that it is level my frames all match very well with the exception for between the ceiling and the frame so I will have to get a little creative with that as well.

I made my frames out of some 1"x2" firing strips, they were not all that straight but after screwing them together and adding some extra "ribs" to the middle it will be straight enough when I attache the Velcro it will lay flat in there. They are snug fitting too, so when the GOM is stretched over them they will be that much more "snug" so they will probably go in friction mount without the need of Velcro.

I also made 11" platforms for my subs. I tried them where the port was pointing toward the seats, toward the outer walls, and toward each other. I found no significant difference in sound based on the direction of the ports. So I left them pointing toward each other since my RCA cables were not long enough to leave them any other way. I then placed a 2'x2' piece of 2" 703 in the middle between them just to be safe, in fear of any cancellation.

I spent some time listening to the system after I had finished with the 703 installation, and I have to say it makes s BIG difference, I definitely have more separation and more definition in the mid bass and mid range. Most of what I am hearing now is reflection off the walls, I will have to address that next.

[carls64]

All the 703 cut from the other day (Almost all of it)


Stuffing it in the corners. Had to make some "tunnels" for the power and audio cables.


Secured it in several spots with some 3" drywall screws and some plastic "price tag" inserts the guy at ACE hardware gave me. They worked out very well. No need to glue the wedges to the wall or each other.


Left side done, there is 45 wedges in there it fills a 7'5" space.


Right side now. Have to figure out how to accommodate the breaker box.


Cutting some cardboard triangles that will be used to make a removable section of 703 for the breaker box.


Finished triangle, made from some project construction board.


Materials needed to make the removable section. 3M 77 Adhesive, gloves (ware a long sleeve shirt, an old one as the spray adhesive floats all over the place.), some strapping material and the cardboard triangles (4 of them).


Glue the strapping material to one of the cardboard triangles.


Now glue all the 703 wedges together, I needed 7 of them to cover the height of the breaker box.


Completed removable wedge covering breaker box. Its a snug fit but works quite well.


The wedge removed.


Both corners done.


703 going up on on the walls.


Wall complete, 2" of 703.


Some extra 703 placed on the side walls.


Speakers back in place. On the suggestion of bpape I built some platforms for the subs. Ready for the screen to go back up.

[salvasol]

Nice Job!!!!

Question: The panels you're making to cover the gap between screen and walls are movable, Right???

Remember that you need access to switch box

[carls64]

salvasol wrote:

Nice Job!!!!

Question: The panels you're making to cover the gap between screen and walls are movable, Right???

Remember that you need access to switch box

Yes Will take some pictures of those as well. They are not pretty but they will get the job done.

[Prof.]

Very nicely done..
What will you be using to cover all that 703 with on the front wall, so it can't be seen.?

[carls64]

Prof. wrote:

Very nicely done..
What will you be using to cover all that 703 with on the front wall, so it can't be seen.?

Ah, see the next post

[carls64]

My GOM showed up on my door step today! In the rain but it was thankfully dry So I timed it well as I had completed the frames last night, and had them mostly painted, with a few tough ups this morning.

The screen wall is mostly done with the exception of the very top section above the screen. You can't see it. I am not sure what will happen when the projector lights up that area but we shall see.

Here is the photos of the fame building and the GOM install. I was in a hurry as I have a friend coming over this evening around 7 to watch a movie, so I didn't take any photos of me stretching the GOM on the frames and stapling. My manual staple gun broke about 1/10 of the way through the build, so I had to run out and get me a new one. I opted for an electric one. It seems to work well. It sure made short order of the process.

I used 1/4" T-50 staples and a Stanly electric stapler.

One of the side frames. These were constructed using 1x2 furring strips. They are not perfectly straight but flex enough that when in place and secured they will lay flat.


Another "side" frame, these do not have the cross members in them yet, I had to wait until I measured the speakers to be sure I did not run one in front of a driver. I ended up building some 12" stands for the L/R speakers to get them a little higher off the ground and closer to ear level.


Construction of the lower center frame. Each piece was measured then cut. Then each section to be assembled was secured with a clamp to the table where I drilled holes just slightly smaller than the screws I used to keep from splitting the wood as I screwed them together. Each section was secured using two, 2 1/4" deck screws. No glue. Note the offset in the corner to accommodate the baseboards. When the fabric is stretched over this area it will fit snugly around the baseboard.


Completed lower center section.


All the frames test fitted. Note the L/R 12" stands. I will build another for the center channel as well as I wanted to get it up a little higher than the other stand allowed. Also my center channel speaker is bigger that its predecessor so the new stand was slightly bigger.


GOM Arrived much to my surprise! Thanks bpape!


The frames were then painted black with extra paint I had left from the ceiling. I used a 3" roller and a brush to do all the inside right angles where the roller could not get.


Sorry I have no pictures of the GOM install on the frames, I was in a hurry and didn't take the time however I will explain what I did.
First I rolled the GOM out on the floor and then simply laid the frame down lengthwise on the edge of the GOM leaving about 3" overhang of GOM to pull over the back to the frame edge. Then I used a electric staple gun (my manual one broke) and placed a staple about every 1" of material. Once that side was done I cut the other side leaving about 3" over hand. Same for the ends 3-4" over hand before you cut it. Then I stretched (not SUPER tight) just as much as you can pull over the sedge using one hand, pull it snug and staple. Again 1" placement of staples. Next the ends, work you way from one side to the other folding the corners like gift wrap over the corners and staple to the back side. Pulling tight as you do. You have to do this as evening as you can and not too tight because if not you will get areas that are pulled tighter than other and you will see areas on the front that look pleated and you don't want that. Some of it will pull smooth when you stretch the ends, so don;t be too concerned with that. It went very fast I had all three of them done in about 40 min. Stopping from time to time for a break.

Lower center panel in place, it was a tight fit.


Left panel installed, another tight fit.


Close up of where the two sections join. When I assembled the frames the 1x2's had a rounded edge to them and I used that side as the outside of the frames so they resulted in a nice edge when the GOM was stretched and stapled over them. As you can see by placing the 1x2's on their edge this gave me enough depth that the panels are just about flush with the screen frame.


I needed a way that I could take these out in the event I needed back behind the screen so I cut some strapping material (the same I used for the 704 wedge for the breaker box) and stapled it to the back of the frame leaving just enough exposed that I could get a hold of it to pull it out.


Closeup of the right side where they come together.


Completed frames installed.


Right side.


Left side.

[tenzip]

Sweet.

That looks exceptional. Good job Carl.

[Prof.]

Now it's looking like a Theatre...Well done..

I take it that those GOM covered panels are removeable!..How have you attached them.?