Slaughter House Cinemas (Project Thread)

[carls64]

Since the project is mostly done (Updated 12-17-2008)

















I have been wanting a HT for about 20 years now. Now I have one!

My area began with and unfinished room about 13x30.

I had a local contractor finish the room all for under $2000 including materials and labor!

Current Equipment:
Panasonic PTAX-200U Projector
ezFrames 120" 16:9 Fixed Frame Cinegray screen
Yamaha RX-V663 AV Receiver
Emotiva LPA-1 7 Channel Amplifier
Behringer Feedback Destroyer DSP-1124P
Elemental Designs A6-6T6 - Tower Pair front left/right
Elemental Designs A6-6T6 - MTM Single Center channel
Emotiva Dipole-1 Surround Speakers
Elemental Designs A3-5TC - Rear Surrounds
2 x Elemental Designs A2-300 Subwoofers
Play Station 3 (For Blu ray)
HD DirectTV DVR
Used Theater seating (Marquee) from www.seatsandchairs.com x 8
Misc Lighting control from X10 for Ambient Lighting
Logitech Harmony 890 Pro Remote with RF Repeater

The finish on the walls and ceiling are an orange peal texture, the ceiling is flat black, the walls are dark burgundy.

Screen wall is a false wall 2' deep. It includes corner base traps using 2" OC703 superchunks (Cut into triangles filling the corners from floor to ceiling) the wall is then framed and covered with black GOM 701.

The floor is concrete covered with black felt type of carpet.

The walls are 2x4 studs and a single layer of Sheetrock, fiberglass insulated. The ceiling is single layer Sheetrock with R19 insulation.

For the entry door, I settled with a steal insulated entry door.

Inside there is 4 foot storage area that doubles as a AV rack (in wall), this has a 28" luane door. The storage area is insulated as there is a expulsion sump there with a pump, that runs when it rains heavy. Its a submersible pump so it is very quiet already in the area.

I used 14 gauge for all the speakers and a RCA cables for the sub.

I have 6 - 6" recessed lights for the main lighting, and for cleaning. I also have 4 plaster type wall sconces for the ambient lighting that many have used here from Home Depot, they were about $22 each.

The lighting is controlled by 2-3 X10 Light modules / switches that have dimmers. This is connected using the X-10 IR transmitter unit, and a iconRemote for AV control and lighting.

I purchased an IR repeater kit from PI Manufacturing (I purchase many item from this place and have never been disappointed): pimfg dot com, item number TTA-1148. This allows me to IR connect all the devices. Although for some reason the X-10 IR unit will not work with this so I have to place it up front concealing it somewhere.

I want to thank everyone here at the shack for all their help and support!

+Peace be with you+
Carl Slaughter

[Mike P.]

Welcome Carl! Looking forward to seeing your pics.

[Prof.]

Welcome aboard Carl..

It all sounds very good..
Keep us up to date and looking forward to seeing some pics also..

[carls64]

I will have to make a few more posts before I can post links but the photos are available in my profile, in my gallery site. They are currently only before shots.

[bpape]

Welcome Carl

Looking forward to seeing the plans. We'll be happy to help however we can in working through the design to get you the best space for the budget you have to work with.

Bryan

[carls64]

While I am waiting to get my contracted started, I need to know where to place my boxes for the speaker placement. With a 120" screen that is 104" wide, and 54" tall. The ceiling in there will be about 6'8" with an 8" soffit to cover the pvc drain. 8-10" across the width (13') and about 10" out from the wall. Will make a nice overhand above the screen.

I may place some recessed lights there to accent the screen when it is not being used. So with that said, that will give me only about 20" from the floor I would like to make a small stage but that will bring the bottom of the screen down to 14" from the floor. I will make a 2x4 stage.

I plan on 6" recessed lights in the whole room for main lighting, and wall sconces for ambient lighting. So where is the best place to place the recessed lights (distance from the wall, etc) and where to place the sconces, I think I only need four, two on each side. I think I would want them further back from the scree and closer to the seating.

My camera to screen settings look like about 16' and my first row seating is 9' and second row at 12' or a little less.

Speaker placement is the next thing, I have a 104" wide screen, that gives me about 25" on either side, probably closer to 2'. Center channel is going to be either right below the screen at about 15" or right above in the soffet if I can make room there, however it will be further out than it would be below. I am going to do some more measuring tonight and get exact figures to post, and some pictures. Any help on placement would be greatly appreciated.

Next comes the side surround speakers, where to mount/place those. Then the back channel. I will also try to post a diagram of what I had planned on and help there would be appreciated as well. I need to know height as well, but from what I understand the front and center should be as close to ear lever while seated as possible, the surround and back channel can be 5-7 feet?

Thanks for your input

Room dimensions again are 13' wide (Screen width) and 25' deep after the storage room is installed. There is a post in the middle of the room offset about 16" from the right side wall :-( that I can't move. I also have a soffet to cover the heating cooling return ducts that gets about 1/4 of the ceiling toward the rear.

[carls64]

Attached is a pdf of the room, I have not added in the ceiling obstructions and the general over all celing height is going to about 7'5" shorter around where the projector is going to be. I will complete the drawing a little more and send it again for better perspectives.

[salvasol]

Welcome to the forum

carls64 wrote:

... I need to know where to place my boxes for the speaker placement...

Why you need boxes??? ... are you trying to hide them??? or boxes for the wire connectors???
Did you already purchased the Polk 6750??? ... they're okay to start, but if you can get something with a better frequency response it will be better (speakers go from 135Hz to 24KHz, you need at least 60Hz-20Khz for the front so you don't have to upgrade to soon )

I did the same (I got Infinity TSS750 120Hz-20Khz) and in less than a year I started changing speakers ... specailly the front L +R + C

... With a 120" screen that is 104" wide, and 54" tall... My camera to screen settings look like about 16' and my first row seating is 9' and second row at 12' or a little less....

I think that screen will be to big for your viewing distance ... here is a calculator to get the recommended size http://myhometheater.homestead.com/v...alculator.html

... I am going to do some more measuring tonight and get exact figures to post, and some pictures...

A sketch of your plan will also be helpful

... but from what I understand the front and center should be as close to ear lever while seated as possible, the surround and back channel can be 5-7 feet? ...

That's correct ... after you post pictures, sketch, etc. you'll get some suggestion to get the best out of your HT

[salvasol]

carls64 wrote:

Attached is a pdf of the room, I have not added in the ceiling obstructions and the general over all celing height is going to about 7'5" shorter around where the projector is going to be. I will complete the drawing a little more and send it again for better perspectives.

i hope you don't mind a pasted a link to your photos here ... http://www.itsallbutstraw.com/galler...g2_itemId=5341

[carls64]

salvasol wrote:

Why you need boxes??? ... are you trying to hide them??? or boxes for the wire connectors???

Sorry low voltage boxes for the speaker wire to come out of the wall, or something where the sire comes out so I know where they will go ;-)

salvasol wrote:

Did you already purchased the Polk 6750??? ... they're okay to start, but if you can get something with a better frequency response it will be better (speakers go from 135Hz to 24KHz, you need at least 60Hz-20Khz for the front so you don't have to upgrade to soon )

Yes I already purchased I got them for $275 so I don;t think that was bad. I have the following other speakers that may be able to be used for front channel:
Pair of Optimus Pro LX5 with Linaeum Tweeters
Pair of Optimus Pro 7 Small bookshelf, not sure if they would be better than the Polk's
I have had the Polk's for about 3 4 weeks now, I got a deal at a local shop and figured they would be good to start with. My budget will not allow for any further equipment purchases right now.

salvasol wrote:

I think that screen will be to big for your viewing distance ... here is a calculator to get the recommended size

Sorry but I quoted wrong distances, I used the distance calculator from Projector Central, and it shows the recommended seating at 11-17' with the projector at 14'8" at 1.64x zoom or 12-19' at 14'3" throw, and a zoom of 1.70x, both for 120" screen (59"x120"

salvasol wrote:

A sketch of your plan will also be helpful

Already attached a couple messages back.

After dinner I will make some more measurements of the ceiling and post a new sketch, and the photos link you so kindly posted for me, thank you!

[carls64]

salvasol wrote:

I think that screen will be to big for your viewing distance ... here is a calculator to get the recommended size

Based on that, it looks like about 13.5 feet would be best for 120" screen? If I am reading that right then I should be able to adjust for that. Thanks!

[bpape]

Please do things in the correct fashion. Determine seating position first for best sound. Then determine the proper screen size based on that position. Moving seats to fit a screen is 100% backward - sorry.

Bryan

[salvasol]

bpape wrote:

Please do things in the correct fashion. Determine seating position first for best sound. Then determine the proper screen size based on that position. Moving seats to fit a screen is 100% backward - sorry. Bryan

I think he already did ... he used the 62/38 rule, he meant to write 15.5' as the viewing distance from first row ... Right, Carls64???

[bpape]

OK. Sorry - must have misread things. The 62% is not hard and fast, it's just a starting point but will usually be in the ballpark.

Bryan

[carls64]

Your right, I did do it backwards I guess. I simply eyeballed up what the max size screen I could fit in that area and have about a 2 foot space below the screen. I have up to 24 foot of space to work with from the screen to the back wall. The calculator says 12-19'. I guess I can place the seating all the way back 1 foot from the back wall and then we have a viewing distance of about 16' & 21' for the 2 rows of seating.

[bpape]

24' would put the first row optimal starting position at approx 15' or slightly less. Put the 2nd row as far from the rear wall as you can get it and still have clearance to the front row considering the reclined positions.

Seated front row eye position should be approx 1/3 of the way up the viewable area of the screen.

Bryan

[carls64]

My math is never been very good, and my eyes are rolling around in my head with this, so let me see if I can spill this out without it being too complicated.

The 120" screen is probably going to give me grief, and I think the 106" is going to be too small. I have already order the screen (120") but if I am convinced I will send it back and get a 106".

Option A:
The unfinished room dimentions are 13'2" x 29'7 1/2" and 7'7" High. I have a drain pipe that is on the same wall as the screen, I was able to prop it up so the soffit will be about 8" from the ceiling finished and about 11" extened out. Furing up the celining up to the ibeam I will get a 7'5" Height. The screen location on the way will give me a maximum height of 6'11". So with that figure of 89" If I place a (120") 120"x59" screen (not sure if that counts the screen only and the 2" border) on that wall, that then gives me only 13" from the floor, unfinished floor. I want to eventualy if not sooner place a stake made up of 2x4 and 3/4 board, that will be 4" (give or take for the carpet finish). Then I am only 11" from the botom of the screen, but the first row will still be the 13" from the bottom.

Given that I need about 1/3 from the bottom of the screen for viewing, I eyballed up that I will (me personaly) be about 44" eye level. 1/3 of the screen would be about 19.7" and 19.7 - 44 = 24.3" is what I need from the floor well above the 13" I have.

Option B:
With that said, if I come out about 12" (finished) with my wall I can clear the drain and gain back 7.5" this will make my figures come out to 21" which will be closer, but I will loose 1 foot off the length of the room. And the screen will be up close to the ceiling. Then I am not sure if my projector height will be right as the projector should be about 7.6" from the ceiling to the projector (lens) to the top of the screen. and the soffet around the i beam and return/supply duct will reduce my height in that area to at least 10" giving me about 6'7" height there to mount the camera. (No tall people allowed) ;-) The camera distance leaves the area below the i beam and air ducts for placement.

Now with the depth, Finished area of room will be (Option A) 12'9.5" x 24'11.5" (Accounting for the 4' I will be taking for storage at the end of the room. It has a sump pump and need access to it).

Option B will give me about 23' 11.5" I may be able to squeeze an even 24' out, so I don;t know I am very frustrated, and should I know have come here first before ordering but is it going to make a big difference if I go either way?

I am open to opinion and suggestions please.

Carl

[salvasol]

carls64 wrote:

... Finished area of room will be (Option A) 12'9.5" x 24'11.5" (Accounting for the 4' I will be taking for storage at the end of the room. It has a sump pump and need access to it).

Option B will give me about 23' 11.5" I may be able to squeeze an even 24' out, so I don;t know I am very frustrated, and should I know have come here first before ordering but is it going to make a big difference if I go either way?

I am open to opinion and suggestions please.

Carl

I think you can make it work ... I'm assuming your "sweet spot" will be in the front row, Right????, in that case the second row won't get the best of the sound (but if you won't seat there, let your guests miss some of the audio ) ... Bryan is right (he is the expert on accoustics ), on my HT the second row is just one feet from back wall, I did some test with REW and the sound changes there, but I'm able to save in my receiver different setups ... so I saved one for the best spot in the front row and another for the back row (even if is not the best option, we have to work with what we have )

I said go ahead, make the front row your sweet spot and loose a little in the back row.

Remember to use the calculator for the riser, the screen distance from bottom to floor will help determine the height of the riser ... here is the calculator http://www.theater-calc.com/riser.cgi ...

[carls64]

Next question is speaker placement. Then I need to place my IR Repeater somewhere up front, its a wall plate I plan on painting the same color as the wall. Would you place this under the screen close to the center channel or to the left or right of the screen. Possibly on either side wall, but I do not know the dispersion that it will accept.

[carls64]

My contracted called me today finally, so maybe this project will get rolling soon and I will have some construction photos.

[bpape]

I usually do the repeater eyes just under the screen so you can do the natural thing and point the remote at the screen and still be pretty close to on-axis.

Bryan

[carls64]

Is there any rule of thumb other than a calculator like the one on Projector Central for determining where (how far back) to palce the projector? Based on my calculations for 120" screen, the PT-AX200U will need to be at 16'1" from the screen and a 1.51x Zoom on the lens. I would think the closer you can get the projector the brighter the picture would be? Also it says that it should be mounted about 7.6" from the copy of the screen to the center of the lens?

[bpape]

Where the PJ is doesn't impact brightness. You have X amount of light spread over Y square inches of area. What will change is how much potential distortion there is depending on zoom. You never really want to be all the way at the end of the zoom.

For most PJ's, if you can stay away from the last 10% of the zoom, you'll be pretty good.

Bryan

[carls64]

Well spoke to the contractor, and he is going to complete the room for me for $800 + Materials. We are going tomorrow night to get the lumber and hardware. He says 2 days to get the framing done so I should have some new photos Monday night. After framing I will do the electrical, then insulate then the drywall. But I am getting ahead of myself. ;-)

Contractor is going to frame, insulate, drywall, mud+tape and finish, hang 2 doors and build my AV rack. I will do the electrical and paint. I suppose that is not bad for $800, as my current budget for the whole room is about $1500, so far I am under budget. Not counting hardware, totals cost of project including AV equipment, minus PS3 is around $5000, no furniture, as we are going to use a couple old couches for now until later this year when we may get some better seating and carpet. With the lights out no one will see ;-)

[bpape]

I'd say that's a steal. Signs of the weak economy I guess.

Bryan