Home Theater Calibration -- its driving Me INSANE

**Raymond Leggs** · **10-05-08, 07:28 PM**

Help me!

I have my HT setup, but I keep sensing something is wrong with my calibration, the sub is weak (I am about to replace it soon) But its the general levels that are driving me coo-coo.

Either something is TOO LOUD or too Quiet.

I crawled for bass but the best bass is where I don't want the sub.

The Center is fine the LCR's seem to be too forward. (these arent the original LCR's that came with the package.

Sub + 10
CTR +3
LF + 2
RF +3
RR + 3
LR +

Before I had it at

SUB + 10
CTR + 10
FL = + 8
FR + 8
RR + 8
LR + 8

I was watching Armegeddon at the Before, levels and the storm door was rattling and the FS were firning into my ears and sounded too Bright I had to bring the lvels down.

AThe bass sounds ok in the current position but if I don'ty sit directly in line with the sub i get no bass nor tactile feeling, but If I put it in the front of the room the DVD's start rattling like crazy.

Even Before then I had every level at 9 and the sub and center were at + 10!

**thxgoon** · **10-05-08, 08:51 PM**

How did you calibrate your levels?

**Toolatecrew** · **10-05-08, 09:28 PM**

Quote:

Raymond Leggs wrote:

Help me!

Sub + 10
CTR +3
LF + 2
RF +3
RR + 3
LR +

SUB + 10
CTR + 10
FL = + 8
FR + 8
RR + 8
LR + 8

Uhmm you have serious issues with the way you are calibrating your system me thinks.If you calibrate to a reference level say 75 db there is no way you should have all speakers at a + rating. The idea is to pick one speaker say FL set it to 75 db and then adjust all the other speakers to 75db. Do maybe you end up with

FL +0
Ctr+1
Fr +0
RR -1
RL +o

or domryhing but you should never have what you have.

This CTR +3
LF + 2
RF +3
RR + 3
LR +

Should look like
CTR +0
LF + -1
RF +0
RR + 0
LR -3

+10 fior the sub is going to lead to major clipping or distortion. Where do you have the dial on the sub set?

**Raymond Leggs** · **10-05-08, 09:56 PM**

Quote:

Toolatecrew wrote:

Uhmm you have serious issues with the way you are calibrating your system me thinks.If you calibrate to a reference level say 75 db there is no way you should have all speakers at a + rating. The idea is to pick one speaker say FL set it to 75 db and then adjust all the other speakers to 75db. Do maybe you end up with

FL +0
Ctr+1
Fr +0
RR -1
RL +o

or domryhing but you should never have what you have.

This CTR +3
LF + 2
RF +3
RR + 3
LR +

Should look like
CTR +0
LF + -1
RF +0
RR + 0
LR -3

+10 fior the sub is going to lead to major clipping or distortion. Where do you have the dial on the sub set?

Actually the sub has no dial its not powered, its passive but there are jacks for both powered and unpowered subs on the receiver, and I will admit there is some distortion on BIG events when Master Volume is turned up to MAX.

As for calibrating it is by ear unfortunately.

and are you saying all the levels should be at +"0" besides the CTR and sub?

**thxgoon** · **10-05-08, 10:16 PM**

Quote:

Raymond Leggs wrote:

Actually the sub has no dial its not powered, its passive but there are jacks for both powered and unpowered subs on the receiver, and I will admit there is some distortion on BIG events when Master Volume is turned up to MAX.

As for calibrating it is by ear unfortunately.

and are you saying all the levels should be at +"0" besides the CTR and sub?

All of your levels should be close to 0. What kind of receiver and speakers are you using? If you want to calibrate your system properly you can get an SPL meter from radio shack for about $40. Well worth the money IMO.

**bpape** · **10-06-08, 07:20 AM**

Agreed. Use the mains as your reference point. They should be at 0 when at 75 or 70 or whatever you're using for a calibration level. Others should be similar based on measurement provided they're designed to work together and have reasonably similar efficiencies.

Sub not right because you don't want to put it where it should be? Can't help you with that. A new sub may be louder but it's still likely going to want to be in the same place.

If you have ANY audible distortion in the sub, turn it down. You'll bottom it out and blow it.

Bryan

**Toolatecrew** · **10-06-08, 08:24 AM**

Quote:

Raymond Leggs wrote:

Actually the sub has no dial its not powered, its passive but there are jacks for both powered and unpowered subs on the receiver, and I will admit there is some distortion on BIG events when Master Volume is turned up to MAX.

As for calibrating it is by ear unfortunately.

and are you saying all the levels should be at +"0" besides the CTR and sub?

So the sub is passive (unpowerd) and being driven by the reciver? What kind of sub? what kind of reciver? No wonder the sub seems "quiet" that poor reciver (which isn't really making that much real power to start) is trying to drive all 5 speakers and a sub (yout have a look at the peak ratings of even small inexpensive sub amps and you'll see what I mean).

At least one of you 5 main speakers should be at 0. After all 0 is the reference all other speakers are compared to. I don't think we can help much with the sub levels. You aren't going to get much output out of a passive sub driven by a reciver so likley no atyter how high you set the sub its going to not be loud enough and probally clip your amp trying to drive it.

Maybe give deatails of your equipment Speakers, sub AVR etc.

**Raymond Leggs** · **10-06-08, 11:22 AM**

Quote:

Toolatecrew wrote:

So the sub is passive (unpowerd) and being driven by the reciver? What kind of sub? what kind of reciver? No wonder the sub seems "quiet" that poor reciver (which isn't really making that much real power to start) is trying to drive all 5 speakers and a sub (yout have a look at the peak ratings of even small inexpensive sub amps and you'll see what I mean).

At least one of you 5 main speakers should be at 0. After all 0 is the reference all other speakers are compared to. I don't think we can help much with the sub levels. You aren't going to get much output out of a passive sub driven by a reciver so likley no atyter how high you set the sub its going to not be loud enough and probally clip your amp trying to drive it.

Maybe give deatails of your equipment Speakers, sub AVR etc.

The System is the RCA RT600, its an older system but it is MILES above the bose Acoustimass or any other In-A box systems exept the Onkyo and H/K ones but it comes close seince it has a REAL 25 LB receiver and not a DVD pile of junk thingie. ( I hate cheap DVD receivers, the amps are too wimpy)

As for the sub its the original sub that it came with, there is also a provision for an additional subwoofer because there is an Orange subwoofer Pre-out jack, which I what I will use for the new (used) sub.

Ii did an experiment with the small powered sub that came with the Durabrand HT package, hooked the Sub out to the right DVD in jack on the back of the sub and got some decent bass.

I am not expecting, nor do I hear the Nasty distorted mess that they play in those home theater Aisles where all you can hear is sub and no movie/music/midrange.

**tonyvdb** · **10-06-08, 11:35 AM**

How large is your room that you are using this system in? Have you read this post yet? It may shed some light on your situation. I am thinking you may be expecting too much for it. Most HTIB systems so called subs are not true subs and rarely go below 40Hz where most subs are just starting to make a true impact on how you "feel" the bass as apposed to hearing it. The placement as you stated in your first post

Quote:

bass sounds ok in the current position but if I don't sit directly in line with the sub i get no bass nor tactile feeling, but If I put it in the front of the room the DVD's start rattling like crazy

leads me to believe that that is your problem as the sub ca not reproduce the lower frequencies and all your "hearing" is the higher frequencies that are far more directional then the lower ones.

**salvasol** · **10-06-08, 02:49 PM**

I agree that you need to calibrate your speakers properly ...the SPl is a must

If you want to use your passive sub ... I suggest to use the speakers terminals on the AVr, and then connect the speakers from sub (that will be possible if your sub has speaker terminals in/out)

**Toolatecrew** · **10-06-08, 03:27 PM**

Despite the 25 lb weight of the reciver something makes me doubt the claimed 600 W total output of that system. Even more costly and heavier AVRs have tested out to deliver way below spec all chs driven. Add to that the AVR is trying to drive the sub too and you may be getting far less power to those speakers than you suspect.

**Raymond Leggs** · **10-06-08, 06:23 PM**

Quote:

Toolatecrew wrote:

Despite the 25 lb weight of the reciver something makes me doubt the claimed 600 W total output of that system. Even more costly and heavier AVRs have tested out to deliver way below spec all chs driven. Add to that the AVR is trying to drive the sub too and you may be getting far less power to those speakers than you suspect.

even I know that Ht receivers almost NEVER live up to thier PMPO specs.

I turned the levels down and everything fell Into place.

I used the big gunfight/battle scene from children of men and the capsizing sequence from Posiedon to be sure and everything was great.

CTR + 4
SBWFR + 8
FL + 3
FR + 3
RR + 3
LR +3

For some reason now it sound excelent.

I moved the "sub" over to the longest wall to the right front of my seating position, and pulled it about a foot from said wall and now everything rattles like it should ( the ceiling tiles) and the bass sounds well rounded (not lacking nor flabby like those showroom HT's )

Turned out my closet door was rattling and absorbing the bass in the back of the room, a DVD tower
sits there now.

**Raymond Leggs** · **10-06-08, 06:27 PM**

Thanks everyone, my system is now how I want it.

**bpape** · **10-06-08, 10:05 PM**

Good deal. Glad it worked out for you. Everything should be this easy to fix

Bryan

**Toolatecrew** · **10-06-08, 10:41 PM**

Quote:

Raymond Leggs wrote:

even I know that Ht receivers almost NEVER live up to thier PMPO specs.

I turned the levels down and everything fell Into place.

I used the big gunfight/battle scene from children of men and the capsizing sequence from Posiedon to be sure and everything was great.

CTR + 4
SBWFR + 8
FL + 3
FR + 3
RR + 3
LR +3

For some reason now it sound excelent.

I moved the "sub" over to the longest wall to the right front of my seating position, and pulled it about a foot from said wall and now everything rattles like it should ( the ceiling tiles) and the bass sounds well rounded (not lacking nor flabby like those showroom HT's )

Turned out my closet door was rattling and absorbing the bass in the back of the room, a DVD tower
sits there now.

I'm glad you are happy. I still fail to understand why you have all speakers set at at least +3. 0 is baseline or reference.

You are needlessly boosting levels instead of doing the proper thing and turing up the volume if you want it louder.

Setting things at CTR + 1
SBWFR + 5
FL +0
FR + 0
RR + 0
LR +0

Would accomplish exactly the aame balance but leave more headroom before clipping and distortion. Its like saying one leg on my table is 2 inches too short. So what I'll do is put a 10 inch high block under 3 legs and a 12 uinch high block under one leg instead of simply putting a 2 inch block under the one leg.

Once again if you are happy with your sound that is a good thing but I'm just trying to understand why you feel you need to do it this way.

**bpape** · **10-07-08, 07:19 AM**

I suspect that if a meter is being used, that the initial bump in volume is to get to 75 or 85db or whatever the reference level is instead of using the volume control at that point.

Bryan

**dradius** · **10-07-08, 02:31 PM**

Quote:

Raymond Leggs wrote:

Thanks everyone, my system is now how I want it.

What? You can't possibly be satisfied with your system! Just saying that can destroy the delicate balance we have created with the universe.

Seriously though, glad you got it all figured out and are happy with the results.

**Raymond Leggs** · **10-07-08, 05:05 PM**

Quote:

Toolatecrew wrote:

I'm glad you are happy. I still fail to understand why you have all speakers set at at least +3. 0 is baseline or reference.

You are needlessly boosting levels instead of doing the proper thing and turing up the volume if you want it louder.

Setting things at CTR + 1
SBWFR + 5
FL +0
FR + 0
RR + 0
LR +0

Would accomplish exactly the aame balance but leave more headroom before clipping and distortion. Its like saying one leg on my table is 2 inches too short. So what I'll do is put a 10 inch high block under 3 legs and a 12 uinch high block under one leg instead of simply putting a 2 inch block under the one leg.

Once again if you are happy with your sound that is a good thing but I'm just trying to understand why you feel you need to do it this way.

I probably do need to turn my levels down to those levels, my room isnt the biggest (its a bedroom) But it could be that I have serious issues of my own.

I do like the effect of having the surrounds firing at me like crazy, which is why I boost the levels. ( it aint healthy)

I like to

**tenzip** · **10-07-08, 07:12 PM**

Don't worry about not having the levels at 0 for a reference. You're basically just shifting the reference to +3 instead. You won't gain any headroom by changing it.

**salvasol** · **10-07-08, 08:43 PM**

Why is a bad idea to have this levels instead of close to zero???
SUB + 10
CTR + 10
FL = + 8
FR + 8
RR + 8
LR + 8

If using the above levels change your reference from "0.0db" to "-10.0db", Why is a bad idea???...Did you gain or loose anything??? .... I know a couple of people doing the same

... Including me

**Toolatecrew** · **10-07-08, 10:09 PM**

You risk clipping the amp.

It just seems really dumb to me. Its like if you had a volume knob that goes from 0 to 20 and you put a stopper on it so it won't trun down below 3. So 3 is the new 0??

The volume knob is there for a reason. How does setting those levels to +8 make it any better than turing the volume up?

**tenzip** · **10-08-08, 11:29 AM**

Quote:

Toolatecrew wrote:

You risk clipping the amp.

You don't risk clipping the amp because of these settings. You risk clipping the amp when you turn the master up too far, regardless of what these settings are.

Quote:

It just seems really dumb to me. Its like if you had a volume knob that goes from 0 to 20 and you put a stopper on it so it won't trun down below 3. So 3 is the new 0??

Exactly, except now your range is 3-23 instead of 0-20. It seems a bit strange to me, too, but it doesn't hurt anything.

Quote:

The volume knob is there for a reason. How does setting those levels to +8 make it any better than turing the volume up?

It doesn't.

TLC, picture it this way: Your pre/pro has the adjustments for each channel, +/- 10, just for example. You're picturing the 0 in the middle as being 0, but shift your paradigm for a moment, and picture +10 as 0. Now you've got a range of adjustment from -20 to 0. The pre/pro puts out full rated output at the +10 level, and anything less is attenuated, so your 0 in the middle is really -10. It's all relative. Kind of like having a guitar amp with a volume knob that goes to 11 instead of 10.

I use my center as 0 reference, BTW. Since the adjustments all start at 0, why use anything else?

All you other guys, if it makes you somehow feel you're getting more out of your system, by all means, use +8 or +3 or +whatever as your reference.

**ludwignew** · **11-14-08, 07:40 PM**

Quote:

salvasol wrote:

Why is a bad idea to have this levels instead of close to zero???
SUB + 10
CTR + 10
FL = + 8
FR + 8
RR + 8
LR + 8

If using the above levels change your reference from "0.0db" to "-10.0db", Why is a bad idea???...Did you gain or loose anything??? .... I know a couple of people doing the same

... Including me

Obviously you depend on your room size and the speaker position. In my case I have the left channel pretty far from the center and the right channel almost next to my ear. That means a +6 increase in left channel.

**salvasol** · **11-14-08, 07:51 PM**

Quote:

ludwignew wrote:

Obviously you depend on your room size and the speaker position. In my case I have the left channel pretty far from the center and the right channel almost next to my ear. That means a +6 increase in left channel.

Well not exactly just in the room size and speaker position ...the speaker levels will be adjusted according to your listening position.

Can you explain about your statement about your left speaker been far from the center and the right next to your ear??? ...Are you talking about the surrounds??? ... Can you move your seat, or re-arrange the speakers so you can have a better listening position???

**ludwignew** · **11-14-08, 07:56 PM**

Unfortunately no, the space is a little bit reduced (actually is my girlfriend's room jajaja).

My room is settle like this:

LCD
FL C FR

SL SR

ME!!

Nice plot ah!!!

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