Basement HT project

[savior sound]

Hey all. I just found this forum and think it is great! I hope you all will be patient with me since as I just said, I'm a newbie. I hope I'm in the right place! Anyway, here is my situation.

I have an already finished out basement. Half of which I plan on using as my new HD Home Theater. I also will use this area for music playback as well. The existing space I will use is 12'6" x 26' x 7' 9" high ceiling. I will provide a drawing after my fifth post. The first thing I want to do is build a wall to create two closets. This new wall will be where I hang a new (not yet purchased) Panasonic 58" 1080p plasma display (TH-58PZ800U for those interested). One of the closets will house my new (already purchased) Onkyo TX-SR806 AVR, a Sony Playstaion 3 (for Blu-ray movies/gaming) and storage of movie/music collection. I'll use two 29 db PQFans to keep things cool - I hear the 806 will get pretty hot. The other closet is for basic storage - beanbag chairs etc.. My main questions at this point are:

1) Where exactly to position this new wall. I think 3-4' would be plenty of room for the closets and leave a large enough remainder for the HT area but I want to be sure I am not overlooking anything, acoustic, visual or otherwise. I don't want the viewing room to be so large that my viewing distance, when seated for proper surround sound imaging, is too far. I will use a 7.1 setup. Klipsch RF-82 towers, RC-62 center, RS-62 side surrounds and RB-61 rear surrounds with RW-12d sub. (on their way) Are the rears too far back?


2) Should I run two new electrical circuits? One for audio equipment, one for video equipment and use existing circuit for new recessed can lighting and sconces. The display should draw about 365 watts, the receiver draws 7.8 amps and I could not find power consumption on the Klipsch RW-12d powered subwoofer but it does have a 350 watt BASH amp 825 watts dynamic power - whatever that means.

3) Other wiring suggestions. I plan to run ethernet cable for internet/network access for PS3, phone line for ordering pay-per-view on dish network (have now), AT&T U-verse (not available in my area yet), RG-6/U Quad Shield coax for whatever programming service chosen, coax to existing antenna in attic for over-the-air/free programming, 12 gauge speaker wires - is this necessary or should I go with 14 gauge for surrounds? and additional electrical circuits as stated in #2. All that should be needed through the wall between equipment (AVR, STB & PS3) and display is a subwoofer cable & 3 HDMI cables. I plan to split HDMI outputs of both of these with two 1X2 HDMI Splitter Amplifiers 1080P V1.3 from CRHUB.com so that video can go directly to display (from both devices) and audio can go to receiver for DTS-HD decoding. It seems there is some alteration to the video signal, even in pass thru mode, by the Onkyo. The only drawback with this is the lack of On-Screen-Display from the receiver but, as a work-around, I thought I would run a third HDMI cable from the output of the Onkyo (the display has 3 inputs in back) for when I need to see what the receiver is displaying and choose the input with the pure/direct/unaltered video when viewing movies/HD content. Is there any other cabling I should do to future proof my setup? I would like to run all wiring now during contruction rather than after the fact.

4) Power conditioner(s) two needed if two new electrical circuits are added, one if one new 20amp circuit is acceptable. Should a get one that will accept everything? Power cords and both coax's, phone, ethernet, etc.. Any brand recommendations? What is isolated filter banks and do I need them?

5) Will PS3 controllers work without any problems if console is closed in closet. I would think so since they are bluetooth.

NOTE: Room materials are as follows: Ceiling-textured 1/2" drywall with no insulation at this point, Exterior walls-concrete with 3/8" wood paneling (3/4" from concrete with no known insulation) on 1x4 furring strips, Existing and New Interior walls-1/2" sheetrock on 2x4 wood framing with R-13 fiberglass insulation, Floor indoor/outdoor carpeting (no padding) on concrete.

Did I miss anything? As you can tell I am trying to be as thuroughly prepared as possible before I even begin construction. Forgive my overly detailed post, I just thought one person may have recommendations/experiences with one area/equipment use etc. while some with the other stuff.

Any suggestions, comments, cautions, observations welcome. I would like to get started in about a week or so. Please help me out with anything you may have!

Thanks in advance

Steve

[salvasol]

I think you have done your homework

I suggest you to also use insulation on the ceiling, I remember reading that any cavities will present a resonance problem.

About the third HDMI from AVR to TV

...I thought I would run a third HDMI cable from the output of the Onkyo (the display has 3 inputs in back) for when I need to see what the receiver is displaying

...I don't know if it will work, if your TV is like mine, you need to choose the source to display it ...(HDMI 1, HDMI 2 or HDMI 3)

[tonyvdb]

Ok, lets see. What to answer first....
Lets start with your room layout, Having a wall with a closet of sorts behind it is a great idea This gives you room behind the screen to run wires and stuff without them running over the front floor. What you need to do is decide if you want a 7.1 or 5.1 setup. Your seating, will it be two rows or one as your seating should be at least 3 ft away from the rear wall. With a 58" display you should not be farther away than about 12ft or it will be a bit small.

As far as a power conditioner is concerned in my opinion save your money and just get yourself some Triplite power bars. they have nois filters and surge protection built in and cost far less.

As far as power, keep the lighting circuit and equipment separated. Running two dedicated 15amp circuits will be more than enough for all your gear. The two 15 amp circuits should share the same phase in the electrical panel.

[Prof.]

savior sound wrote:

1) Where exactly to position this new wall. I think 3-4' would be plenty of room for the closets and leave a large enough remainder for the HT area but I want to be sure I am not overlooking anything, acoustic, visual or otherwise. I don't want the viewing room to be so large that my viewing distance, when seated for proper surround sound imaging, is too far. I will use a 7.1 setup. Klipsch RF-82 towers, RC-62 center, RS-62 side surrounds and RB-61 rear surrounds with RW-12d sub. (on their way) Are the rears too far back?

Steve,

The only thing to be concerned about is that the new sized room doesn't finish up at 24' long..This would not be good acoustically speaking..
Either side of 24' will be fine..and your side surrounds won't be too far back..

[savior sound]

Salvasol

Yeah, I figured insulating the ceiling would be good for a couple of reasons. The one you mentioned plus keeping noise from upstairs out and allowing me to crank it up without the sound leaking out. The easiest thing to do would be to blow in cellulose between each floor/ceiling joist (2x12's).

The third HDMI cable (to say HDMI Input 3) would allow me to view video coming from AVR for OSD. Once I see settings or whatever I need to from the receiver's display I'd switch back to either HDMI Input 1 - for Blu-ray or HDMI Input 2 for HD DVR direct-to-TV video feeds for best picture quality. The HDMI pass-thru video on the Onkyo, as I understand it, isn't bad - it is just altered. Supposedly it clips blacker-than-black. This work around is my attempt at a solution.

Thanks for the input

[salvasol]

savior sound wrote:

...plus keeping noise from upstairs out and allowing me to crank it up without the sound leaking out.

Have you thought about using double layer of drywall??? ...that will also help a lot

[savior sound]

Tony

I am going with 7.1. I plan to have at least two rows of seating with MY main sweet spot seat about 8-9' from the screen but this will be about 12' from the back wall and a row to the rear of that. The farthest seat back will be more than 3' from back wall. Which causes me to ask another question. Should I mount rear speakers away from back wall to move them closer to main listening position. I would have to use an omni-mount on the ceiling. I have a good drawing, I just can't get it to upload and attach. Can someone help me? I can e-mail it to you and maybe you could convert it or get it to attach properly. It's really causing me problems.
I will check out the power bars. I didn't know about using the same hot leg for both circuits. How will that help? Just curious.
Thanks for the input.

[savior sound]

Prof

The room length (if I go with a 4' deep closet) would end up being 22'. And my side surrounds would end up about 8-9' back from the new front wall/display. But, as I mentioned above, that puts the rears of my 7.1 12' behind me. Suggestions?

[savior sound]

salvasol wrote:

Have you thought about using double layer of drywall??? ...that will also help a lot

I don't think it will be necessary. On the other side of my basement are drums and guitar amps. I did insulate the ceiling with cellulose and add some Auralex studio foam when I built out that side, but that's about it. I can be jamming (full up) and if you're standing at my front door it sounds like a TV is up a bit loud inside. Good suggestion though, thanks.

[savior sound]

Here is a copy of my plans. I hope it is viewable!

EDIT: Moved rear surrounds out of corners - 6' apart

[savior sound]

I just thought of one thing I missed. Remote control. Will I need a repeater or something in order to operate the Onkyo receiver if I put it in the closet? And what about PS3, will the controllers work fine during game play through the walls?

[Prof.]

savior sound wrote:

Prof

The room length (if I go with a 4' deep closet) would end up being 22'. And my side surrounds would end up about 8-9' back from the new front wall/display. But, as I mentioned above, that puts the rears of my 7.1 12' behind me. Suggestions?

That won't be a problem..
All you have to do is balance the sound level between the side surrounds and the rears..
I would advise you to move the rears (as they're shown on the drawing) away from the back wall corners..position them about 6' apart..

[savior sound]

The only reason I'd planned them so far apart is in trying to follow THX recommendations for DOLBY® TRUEHD or DTS-HD™ 7.1 back/rear surround placement of 60 degree angle from main listening position.

http://thx.com/home/setup/speakers/dolby.html

[Prof.]

savior sound wrote:

The only reason I'd planned them so far apart is in trying to follow THX recommendations for DOLBY® TRUEHD or DTS-HD™ 7.1 back/rear surround placement of 60 degree angle from main listening position.

http://thx.com/home/setup/speakers/dolby.html

The THX recommendations for rear speaker placement are optimal for dedicated theatre environments..
In a room that's used for other purposes, it's not always possible or practical to comply with the recommended angles..
The spacing between the rears is more important, to get a smooth flow of sound across the back wall..

The other thing to consider is that there is not a lot of rear content available in most movies, with a few exceptions..so for the most part, you won't even be aware of effects from the rear speakers..

[savior sound]

Prof

I changed my drawing to reflect your recommendation. Is there anything else from my original post or drawing that raises any other flags?

Anyone?

[salvasol]

savior sound wrote:

. Is there anything else from my original post or drawing that raises any other flags?

Anyone?

To tell you the truth ...I'm not sure about having the storage room and media room in the front (behind
TV) ...if it were me, I put it on the back wall

Those doors flanking the speakers an TV ...Did you already build the entrance to the HT room???

Also, Do you plan to have a second row of seats and a riser in the future??? ...you can plan ahead that too

[savior sound]

salvasol wrote:

To tell you the truth ...I'm not sure about having the storage room and media room in the front (behind
TV) ...if it were me, I put it on the back wall

Those doors flanking the speakers an TV ...Did you already build the entrance to the HT room???

Also, Do you plan to have a second row of seats and a riser in the future??? ...you can plan ahead that too

The room is already as drawn except the walls (and doors) that would create the closets. As for the riser, the fireplace makes that task next to impossible. But I will start thinking about that.

[salvasol]

I know that to make suggestions to the design we need to know exactly the basement layout (in case that there's more than one room, stairs, etc.

Here is just a couple of changes that might or might not work for you ...

[savior sound]

Here is what I have to start with.

[savior sound]

I can't open the drawings to zoom in and see exactly what you have. But I know the first one definantly won't work because of the entrance into the room has to stay as is.

[salvasol]

savior sound wrote:

I can't open the drawings to zoom in and see exactly what you have. But I know the first one definantly won't work because of the entrance into the room has to stay as is.

Is similar to your first lay out ...except that I moved the equipment/storage room to the back (near entrance)

Take a look at this threads to get more ideas on how they arranged the basement Slaughter Cinema and Tanner Cinema

[savior sound]

Wow! That Tanner Cinema is nice!

Is it the appearance of the doors on either side the concern? Or is it acoustic or other issues I haven't considered?

[salvasol]

savior sound wrote:

Is it the appearance of the doors on either side the concern? Or is it acoustic or other issues I haven't considered?

In my personal opinion is the looks and the chance that you'll need to move your speakers for better sound ...having those doors there will limit the placement if you're not happy with the sound.

For the accoustics, I think that as longs you have the doors closed there will be no problem (hopefully Bryan will chime in and correct me if I'm wrong )

[Prof.]

salvasol wrote:

In my personal opinion is the looks and the chance that you'll need to move your speakers for better sound ...having those doors there will limit the placement if you're not happy with the sound.

For the accoustics, I think that as longs you have the doors closed there will be no problem (hopefully Bryan will chime in and correct me if I'm wrong )

Steve,

Salvasol is right...Having those two opening doors either side of the display will limit the width of the L&R speaker placement..and you cetainly don't want them in front of the doors..

Here's another suggestion to consider..
Leave the new rooms at the end the way you now show them on the drawing, with the two doors..and reverse everything else in the room..ie, move the display and speakers to the other end of the room..
It's still not ideal because of that opening, but at least you'll have room to move your speakers around..
The rears can then be placed on the new wall, above the doors if need be..

[salvasol]

Prof. wrote:

It's still not ideal because of that opening, but at least you'll have room to move your speakers around..
..

That's a good point Prof. ...we don't know if he will leave that opening or if he will be using a door there