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Ambrosio's Unaplex II: Room within a Room Build

82K views 250 replies 22 participants last post by  tjambro 
#1 · (Edited)
Here begins the tale of Ambrosio's Unaplex II...

Yes, this is my second theater build. My first build was in a single level ranch with the biggest room becoming my dedicated theater. Unfortunately, when the HT wasn't being used, the house became very small. Also at the time of my build, my budget did not allow for any real sound isolation. At first my wife could tolerate my movie parties but when I added two large 18" DIY subs behind the AT screen, I must admit, it was pretty loud and rattled the entire house. My neighbor said I actually rattled a picture frame off HER wall.

So, we sold the house and now I have a full basement. My wife has given up rights to the right half (and portion of the left) of the basement for my "man cave". The only stipulation was that she had to have unfettered access to the laundry room and storage rooms in the back of the basement. You see, in the last house, I killed the pantry, hall closet and the family room. So her request was not unreasonable to me. :D The basement was completely finished before I got my grubby paws on it.

**Note**: This basement layout has changed. Look below for the latest layout...or click here
Here is my current vision:



Note that the red walls and hot water heater are to be removed. The blue walls, hot water heater, and separate HVAC are to be added. The yellow circles are my lolicolumns.

If that's too much color, here's the same layout with just the finished "blue" items: Ambrosio's Unaplex 2 layout

I have made initial contact with BPape and he will be on board to hopefully stop me from making any major snafus. I am planning a room within a room with the theater's new ceiling joists nestled in between the current joists. I am going with 3 layers of 5/8" DW with GG. I plan on building an IB chamber ala Cathan and the walls will be finished with fabric frames ala GPowers. I already have my dricore but I cannot put it down until I convert my finished basement into an unfinished basement.

Here's what the room looked like prior to me picking up a hammer and pry bar:

The walls with X's on them is the bedroom wall that will be removed. The IB chamber and AT screen will be back here. The room does look a bit long in the layout and can be adjusted somewhat by making the IB chamber bigger if necessary.

The door by the CO detector is the only entrance to the back rooms and I will be sealing it off as it is on the left wall of the theater not far from where the screen will be.

To make this happen, the water heater in the laundry/sump room was moved near the mechanical room and a new door is to go directly from the lobby/arcade to the laundry room and other back rooms.

To my surprise, here's what I found when I removed the paneling to make way for the new door:


Looks like I'm not the only one who thought a door should go there...

One more before shot:


This is the future lobby/arcade. The back closets will be removed and note the "blue" doorway by the popcorn machine. That is roughly where the new entrance will go. That 200amp electrical panel you see on the closet wall is now gone...thanks Dad! It's not the original panel either. The house was built in '65 and had 100A service. The original box is in the room under the stairs which is just a couple of feet to the left of the panel. It is currently just a junction box and was fed by the new 200A panel. Why they didn't put the new panel in the room under the stairs is beyond me. There was plenty of room to do so. Fortunately, when they removed the old 100A aerial service to the house and installed 200A underground service they spent a few extra bucks and installed a 200A breaker below the power company's meter so we could disconnect the house from the grid and move the 200A panel back under the stairs. This allows me to take the rest of that closet wall out and the driving Xbox 360 cabinet that is mostly finished can be located closer to the wall. The driving cabinet is a blast and will provide stress relief to me when I get burnt out from theater planning/building. If you look close, my previous theater's HTPC is sticking out the front of the cabinet...and do you see the cat6 cable going to it? Yep, that driving cabinet is also a personal hi-def (.mkv files stored on a Unraid server) theater... Yes, I have my own "Drive In Theater" complete with DD/DTS 5.1 surround. A little sub sits behind the 2005 Neon seat. :p

And here is the room as of now looking toward the IB chamber:

You can see my old sub boxes standing upright behind the 2x4 wall. I killed myself getting these things down the basement (no walkout) and now I am just going to pitch them in favor of an IB chamber...it's Cathan's fault! ;) If anyone near Evansville IN wants them, they're yours...
 
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#111 ·
I recommend that to almost all of my design customers who have to do soffit lighting. Sometimes it makes the soffits a bit larger but it's relatively easy, effective, and a great way to also get some nice bends in the ducting. I usually have them do duct board or duct liner inside the chase and then fluffy inside the rest of the soffit.

That also allows a single layer of drywall - not only for headroom purposes, but also to let it give a little extra bass absorption all the way around the room up in the wall/ceiling corners.

Bryan
 
#113 ·
Soffit Confusion

Bryan and Ted, I'm glad "we", meaning you guys, had this conversation. I know Bryan did talk to me a while back about using mdf for the soffits but I guess I didn't understand fully and lost the significance of the dedicated mdf box over time. I thought the soundlock in conjunction with the ductboard and deadvent setup would be ok even with cans in the soffits. My latest plan de-volved into just having 3/4" ply over the 2x2's with the ductboard vent and lights sharing the same cavity.

Thanks for setting me straight guys! I don't have enough headroom to include 2" of ductboard (1" for top and 1" for bottom) within a 3/4" mdf box plus the 3/4" ply or drywall on top of that. I guess that's why a lot of people use veneer over the mdf shell? I really don't want to mess with veneer, I don't think I have the skills or patience to work with it.

Back when I was painting my ceiling I even thought to myself, why was I planning to put 3/4" finished ply over the soffit frames and stain them. I think it would be a nice accent on a smaller soffit in a larger room but in all reality, I want the soffits to not be all that noticeable.

Maybe I should scrap the finished ply and stand alone 2x2 framing altogether and build the soffits from osb and drywall as Ted described but make an extra vertical partition to separate the duct from the can lights. Perhaps I could line the duct with 1/2" Linacoustic to re-claim the height that I will lose due to the OSB/drywall face and bottom. I could still use 2x2's to secure the osb to the wall/ceiling and as furring strips along the vertical duct/can divider to attach the osb/drywall to the bottom.

For the vertical duct/can divider, could I attach mdf to the osb instead of drywall since it will be internal to the soffit?

How does this plan sound? Is there anything else I'm missing or not thinking of?
 
#114 ·
Separating them with the vertical will be OK. You should be using flex ducting which is somewhat self insulating already. The other cavity with the lights should be damped - just pay attention for spacing especially if they're non IC rated cans.

Bryan
 
#116 ·
Separating them with the vertical will be OK. You should be using flex ducting which is somewhat self insulating already.
Bryan
I can't use flex because it won't fit in the soffit. There's only 6" from the ceiling to the top of my door (not door frame, the door itself) and I really don't want a shallow soffit over the door and a taller one around the rest of the room. Plus the room is only 7'3 and the entrance to the room makes people walk under the soffits, so I want to keep them as shallow as possible.
 
#115 ·
I would build the ply+drywall combo. Forget the 2x2 frame to max on internal volume and minimize the headroom loss.

Separate the soffit into dedicated duct and dedicated ceiling can containment.

Try and leave enough volume for the ventilation run to have enough absorption, or it won't work. Duct liner is your friend here. Abandon other materials.
 
#117 ·
I would build the ply+drywall combo. Forget the 2x2 frame to max on internal volume and minimize the headroom loss.
Ted, I think this is a good idea, thanks for the suggestion. I like the idea of ditching the 2x2's to maximize headroom. I think I may go with osb+drywall as you recommended above. I may dip into that 10th pail of GG sooner than I thought. :R

Separate the soffit into dedicated duct and dedicated ceiling can containment.
Would you recommend osb+drywall for this vertical divider or would a single piece of 3/4" mdf do the trick? If the osb+drywall is better, I'm not against doing that...

Try and leave enough volume for the ventilation run to have enough absorption, or it won't work. Duct liner is your friend here. Abandon other materials.
Would 1/2" duct liner all around do the trick? I know 1" would be better but 1/2" would help minimize headroom loss.
 
#118 ·
"I think I may go with osb+drywall as you recommended above."

I can send you schematics

"Would you recommend osb+drywall for this vertical divider"?

Yes. Less mass, but traded for damping.

"Would 1/2" duct liner all around do the trick"?

I would really try and shave elsewhere. Every 1/2" will help.
 
#119 ·
Soffit Construction

Well, I changed my mind again...that's what happens when you are "winging it". :R

I don't want to speak for either bpape or Ted White but to me the common theme they both stress is isolation of the HVAC duct from the can lighting within the soffit. Once I get out of the, "I have a shell with 3 layers of drywall/GG and it doesn't matter what I do in the room" mode, it makes total sense to isolate the duct within the soffit. I looked back over my correspondence with bpape (he's my "sound guy" and has designed my sound treatments) and sure enough, he did mention isolating the HVAC duct from the can lights and he suggested mdf.

From that time on, some how I found an "easier" way to build the soffits without adding the middle vertical piece leaving the duct not isolated and I also decided to use 3/4" ply instead of mdf. Due to the large width of these soffits, I really don't want to accent the room with the ply, I think it's too much.

So, having said all that, my latest soffit revision is to build the soffit frame with 2x2's, with the can lights in the smaller section of the soffit and the 1" ductboard in the larger section. The ductboard will be isolated with 3/4" mdf and the finished sides of the soffit will have 5/8" drywall over the mdf. I will throw some GG in between the 2 layers for additional damping.

This does make my soffit a little higher than I would like and I will not be able to maintain the same height over the door. I will try to make it as inconspicuous as possible, but the section over the door will have to be a little smaller in height to allow the door to open and close. Fortunately, there will be no ductwork over the door in the theater side so that will help. There will be ductwork over the door in the soundlock so that will pose a challenge. We'll cross that bridge when we get there...remember, we're winging it! :devil:

Thanks again guys for all the advice, please keep the comments coming!
 
#120 ·
Soffit Progress

I can't believe it's been a month since my last post. I'm progressing very slowly but hey some progress is better than no progress. I returned 74 of the 80 2x2's I bought from Lowes at $1.97 each. I returned them because they were very warped and too difficult to find some decent ones. I picked up 50 from my local lumber yard. I figured they would be more expensive but it turns out they were actually cheaper than Big Blue. I paid $1.49 each and not only are they straighter, they are closer to being an actual "2x2".

Here's a picture of my longest duct board length down the left side of my theater:



The can lights will be in the smaller section of the soffit with the pink fluffy stuff. The return ductboard is separated from the can light section with two 3/4" pieces of mdf with a layer of GG in between. After the mdf is complete I will apply GG and a layer of 5/8" drywall to complete the soffit.

Here's another view:



That square hole on the right is where the return vent will be exiting into my HVAC room. I will box the area off and the ductboard will exit through the hole into the HVAC room where I will built a dead vent. It will not connect to the main house HVAC...unless of course the dead vent doesn't work for me. I must say it was very, very hard to grab the reciprocating saw and cut through my 3 layers of sheet rock and GG. All my sound proofing is destroyed until I finish the dead vent setup.

Here's one more view with the first sheet of mdf on the bottom:



If you look where the mdf ends, you can see 3 beads of acoustical caulk I put along the 2x2 divider before putting up the mdf. Once I put up the mdf, I couldn't figure a good way to seal off the vertical center mdf from the two soffit chambers. So while installing the 2 vertical mdf pieces, I let them overhang the 2x2 bottom and used my router to make them flush with the 2x2. I'm hoping the 3 beads of caulk will ensure a good seal to the mdf bottom. I used many screws to pull the mdf up tight against the caulk and since caulk is oozing out the side, I'm hopeful that it will seal properly.

You can see I ran some romex through the soffit before putting the mdf up. There will be 3 cans in this soffit and 1 outlet in the bottom of my "dummy" column. When all is said and done there will be 6 5" cans in the soffits (3 on each side), 3 outlets (1 in each dummy column on both sides and 1 behind the screen), 3 4" eyeball cans in front of the screen and 3 4" cans behind the AT screen to light up the speakers. I still have more electric to run but it will not go through this soffit. I originally was going to run audio/video cables through the soffits but have since decided against that. My new plan is to run electric high (soffits) and audio/video cables low along the wall behind the fabric frames I will make. I will have lights in the riser to contend with and will have to work around the electric outlet in the dummy column but I figured it will be a lot easier to get behind the fabric frames which will most likely be velcroed to the wall then ripping down the soffits to add more audio/video cabling. I know many people use smurf tubing and I even bought some but since my equipment will be in the soundlock room, I don't want to leave an open tube connecting the theater and the sound lock room.

Once I finish these soffits, I will work on the smaller soffits in the sound lock/lobby room. I may see if I can get away with using less 2x2's in the sound lock. I wonder if I need to isolate the lobby cans from the ductwork?
 
#121 ·
Hi Tom! Just wanted to drop in and say "Hi Tom"! This is going to be one of a fine job, when it is completed because you are not cutting corners or rushing or all the other things people seem to do.

You must have a big screen TV in another room?

Looking forward to what you and the Misses have picked out for the finish...should be fun!


Brien
 
#123 ·
Hi Tom! Just wanted to drop in and say "Hi Tom"! This is going to be one h e c k of a fine job, when it is completed because you are not cutting corners or rushing or all the other things people seem to do.
Thanks Brien, I appreciate the encouragement. I do at times get lazy and sometimes need a swift kick in the butt, so that is now your official job...kick me in the butt once in a while to get me moving. :R The 'ole wallet has been hit pretty hard lately so I have to build up more funds before I can buy any more materials/equipment so there's really no rush.

You must have a big screen TV in another room?
Actually, I have no big screen in another room but I knew I would go insane without being able to watch movies. It was very hard for the first few months without a theater (sold the last one with the house) but I came up with this ingenious solution:

As posted early on in this thread, I present to you "Ambrosio's Drive-In Theater"...aka Xbox360 driving cabinet:



You can't see from this picture, but there's a 26" 1080p flat panel in there and the tips of my fingers can touch the screen when I am sitting in the '05 Neon car seat that I picked up at the junk yard...ahem, excuse me...Salvage Emporium.:bigsmile: There's a 5.1 HTiB with the itty bitty sub sitting right behind the car seat. Not IB quality, but not bad...for one...the misses is on her own. :whistling:

At first, I was playing Forza 2 and watching movies, but ever since I bought and hooked up the Popcorn Hour Media player up to the flat panel, I had to pull the Xbox optical audio cable and haven't been switching back and forth like I thought I would. I currently have about 400 blu rays ripped to my unRaid server that I stream to the PCH. Works very, very well. So well that I have scrapped my HTPC from the previous theater.

Thanks for making me dig up that old picture. It makes me feel like I have done a lot since then...wow...I miss that paneling!....NOT!!

Looking forward to what you and the Misses have picked out for the finish...should be fun!
Once I get the soffits done, I will have to consider that more...the wife says I can do it any which way I please which is great! Even with all their limitations, having a basement is so cool, isn't it? :R I am leaning toward a very simple, clean layout. I like the fancy trim work and colors that some do, but they are too distracting while watching movies...at least for me. In my previous theater, the sconces and movie posters reflected light and drove me crazy...hence neither in this build. Since I will have a lobby this go round, I will put some lit movie posters in the lobby. As of now, I am planning to do the theater in GOM Anchorage #2045 (Cobalt) with a possible #2085 (Thistle) accent. Speaker columns will be finished birch stained black and the soffits/ceiling painted black. Theater seats most likely black. The lobby will have a bolder blue, most likely GOM Anchorage #2094 (Lapis). Both rooms will have fabric frames with beveled edges. The theater will be treated for sound and the lobby will only have fabric frames for looks, there will be no sound treatments in that room.

Oh, 7.1 speakers will all be DIY with 4 18" Fi IB drivers behind the screen. :hsd:
 
#124 ·
Arcade cabinets

Space, here's another slightly better picture of the "drive-in":



This is also an old picture but at least you can see the screen a little better. It's funny how my nephews abandoned the "state of the art" X-box 360 driving cabinet with 5.1 surround and force feedback to play a game of Galaga circa 1981...:bigsmile:
Spoiler
In all fairness, they liked both and would have played all night if their mother would have let them.
 
#126 ·
Looking great. That insulation in the lighting compartment won't be too compressed, will it?
I don't know, do you think it is? It's R13 that is folded in half and basically makes a "u". If I want to fill the entire compartment, I would have to cut two 7 inch pieces and stack them flat on top of each other. Instead of cutting 2 pieces, I just folded one R13 piece in half (the "u") and put it up there. Isn't that basically the same thing as cutting two pieces? The bottom is a little more compressed because it is up against two 2x2's.

It wouldn't be that big of a deal to remove some if that would help. I would appreciate your thoughts.
 
#130 ·
Build is gonna be EVEN slower...

As if the build hasn't been slow enough, it's gonna get even slower due to my most recent purchase. My '98 Chevy Cavalier convertible has been showing its age and I decided it was time to replace it with this:







It's a 2007 Pontiac G6 hardtop convertible and while it's not as fun as a brand new PJ and IB sub, I can't drive the IB sub to work and I need to work to buy the PJ and sub...well, you get the point. :R

I have enough materials on hand to finish the soffits in the theater and sound lock/lobby but after that, I will have to wait a few months to build up a little cash before spending any more on the theater. Oh well, it will get done when it gets done...

Now I'm REALLY having a hard time getting motivated to finish the soffits. :whistling:
 
#132 ·
As for the soffits, you'll be surprised. When there's no money for new toys, you work with whatcha got...
You're right. I already have the Fantech inline fans and some rock left so I should be able to completely finish the soffits, dead vent and put the last wall up outside the theater (theater/arcade boundary) before I need anything else. As slow as I am, that should keep me busy for awhile while funds are being procured. :R
 
#134 ·
Hey Tom, just get a DVD player and put it in the Pontiac G6 raise the roof and call it a day :)
That would be cheaper, wouldn't it Brien?

Tomorrow is my last day at work for a week, so I'm gonna try to get motivated and work on the soffits in both the theater and the sound lock/lobby. Feel free to prod me every once and a while to make sure I am actually doing the work. :R
 
#137 ·
Thanks for the enouragement guys. I worked on the room 6 of the 11 days I was off. I know you die hard guys would have worked every day but I don't have that type of energy or resolve. Plus my inlaws came down for the weekend just before I had to go back to work.

While the pictures may look like much was not done, I felt that I did good, hey at least some progress is being made.

I continue to work on the theater soffits:



The big sections are complete with the ductboard and dividing partitions for the can lights installed. All romex to be installed in the soffits has been installed. I still need to work on the corners and transition pieces but at least the large pieces of mdf have been hung. I will eventually cover all in a layer of 5/8 DW with GG between the mdf and DW.

Here's the right hand soffit with the opening cut for my 5' linear diffuser (HVAC supply):



You can also see one of the can light openings.

I started working on the sound lock/lobby soffits also:



It may not look like much, but I had to run the romex before these soffits are closed up. The silver tape above the 2x2 is the ductboard tape that I used to secure the low voltage CL2 lines that will lead to a remote 4 zone switch that will connect to my 6 zone Grafix Eye unit that will be installed here:



The Grafix Eye will be installed in the backer box that I created just to the left of the door. This is the wall that divides the theater from the sound lock/lobby area taken from the sound lock side. The backer box is currently open on the right side near the door. The divider wall is large enough that I can work on the lighting controller after the rock is put up and then install the last piece of mdf for the backer box and caulk that last side. The 2 dial rheostats for the dead vent fans will be installed directly below the Grafix Eye.

At the top right hand corner of the photo you can see 2" bpape felt that I had left over that I lined the "transition hvac box" that connects the theater supply duct with the sound lock supply side. The main supply run will run above the door and cannot be installed until the drywall is up. The Grafix Eye backer box and the "transition hvac box" do not touch the opposite wall. The backer box is no problem, it's not even close to the opposite wall. The hvac box comes within 1/8" or so of the opposite wall and I caulked it up. I don't know if this was necessary, but I figured it wouldn't hurt. I probably could have made it 2 layers but I forgot and have since closed the wall.
 
#138 ·
Here's the same wall above with the 1st layer of rock on it:



I know the piece near the door looks bad, I'll work on that.

Here's a photo of my new 65W incandescent pj:



Actually, before I entirely closed up the romex in the soffits I figured I should at least do some basic testing. I have installed over 700' of romex and I still have more to go! I don't have any of the romex installed in my breaker box yet but I attached a hacked extension cord to a line near the breaker panel, plugged the hacked cord into a switched power strip and hooked the 65W can light to the end of the circuit I wanted to test. That's why you may notice a lot of capped wires in the pictures. I figured if the last load on the circuit works, the others must also.

I did learn something valuable. Don't test the last circuit of the day when you are tired. Everything was working perfectly and I told my wife, "I'll be up as soon as I test this last circuit". Well, it didn't work. No problem, probably the bulb (nope), probably the wire nuts not on tight (nope), probably this last leg not wired tightly to the previous leg (nope)...now I'm starting to panic. I grabbed the 'ole tester and no juice at any of these points. Ok, let's test right where the romex enters the room. The orange light is on and while I haven't used this tester in quite some time, the light seemed a little dim to me. Forget this, lets go back to the panel...doh! Black goes to black, white DOES NOT go to the temporarily bypassed ground but to white. Oops, 2 minutes later, everything was working. Whew, that was scary! :bigsmile:

I plan on getting the 2 additional layers of rock up this weekend and perhaps work on the soffits in the sound lock. I only have 8 sheets of rock left and will clearly need more to finish the wall, soffits and the yet unbuilt wall that divides the left side of the theater from the arcade area. Need to replenish the check book before ordering more rock. I also need thinner rock for the arcade and utility room where the closets were removed and plumbing re-routed in the utility room.
 
#141 ·
I did learn something valuable. Don't test the last circuit of the day when you are tired. Everything was working perfectly and I told my wife, "I'll be up as soon as I test this last circuit". Well, it didn't work. No problem, probably the bulb (nope), probably the wire nuts not on tight (nope), probably this last leg not wired tightly to the previous leg (nope)...now I'm starting to panic. I grabbed the 'ole tester and no juice at any of these points. Ok, let's test right where the romex enters the room. The orange light is on and while I haven't used this tester in quite some time, the light seemed a little dim to me. Forget this, lets go back to the panel...doh! Black goes to black, white DOES NOT go to the temporarily bypassed ground but to white. Oops, 2 minutes later, everything was working. Whew, that was scary! :bigsmile:
These little hiccups try the best of us at times..
I know that when something suddenly stops working in my theatre..the first thing I do is panic..:yikes: :no: :sweat: :crying: :R
Progressing nicely..:T
 
#143 ·
Did some more soffit work:



This is not the theater, but the little room you have to go through to get to the theater. I call it the sound lock/lobby room. These soffits are much easier to build then the divided soffits I am building in the theater room. The theater room has can lighting so the cans need to be isolated from the duct work to minimize sound transmission. I originally was going to put cans in this little room but decided instead to build some shallow columns surrounding the lit poster boxes I plan on purchasing and put sconces on the columns. This room does have duct work, some of which you can see in this picture so I will be isolating it by enclosing it with mdf/GG/DW. Still, much easier that the divided soffits.

On the right side of the photo above the halogen lamp, you can see the cut out for the HVAC supply for this room. On the left side of the photo, you can see the exposed duct that is just a little smaller than a 6" round, this is the return side. In the photo, it looks like the duct runs into the larger duct but it doesn't. The return duct will snake around to the left into what will be my equipment closet. That larger duct you see is a little larger than an 8" round and is the supply for both rooms. It comes in from outside the closet, runs across the photo and tees above the halogen lamp. The larger volume goes into the theater and the remainder dumps into the cutout you see above the lamp.



This shows the smaller duct vent coming up against the larger supply duct. Also in this picture, you may be able to notice that there appears to be two layers of mdf covering the main supply duct. This is a correction that I am not thrilled with but will accept. Due to my unlevel floor, ceiling and poor planning, the soffit frames for the soundlock did not line up properly with the frame over the door. The difference was too much to leave as is, so I inserted a small strip of mdf on the outside frame to bring the supply soffit down so that it is level over the door. The problem is that the soffits around the room will not come in level with the supply soffit. I think it will look ok when it is done because hopefully it will look like I planned the soffits to be different heights...yea...yea, that's the ticket! I really didn't want to remove all the soffits, wiring, and re-do it so this was the best solution I could come up with. Now, if this were in the theater itself, I may have ripped it down but this is just the room to get to the theater. :whistling:
 
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