Cedar Creek Cinema II

**Sonnie** · **01-23-09, 01:25 AM**

It actually looks like 18 x 24 x 8.5 might be my best bet... if I am reading these right.

Name: modes-2.gif
Views: 669
Size: 36.1 KB

Name: modes-3.gif
Views: 322
Size: 50.2 KB

18 x 23 x 8.5 might even be a touch better.
Name: modes-4.gif
Views: 321
Size: 49.2 KB

**Wayne A. Pflughaupt** · **01-23-09, 01:45 AM**

Quote:

I don't imagine there will be any window unit... it will be a separate central unit, probably a one ton unit.

What? I thought window units were the kind of air conditioning hillbillies used! (If they even had air conditioning!)

Quote:

It will be larger and it will have its own 1.5 ton central heating and cooling unit.

Wow - do they even make window units that big?

Have you talked to an AC guy? I've always heard from them that the "rule of thumb" is one ton for every 500 sq. ft., and you have less than 400. Not to mention, with the double- and triple-sheetrocked staggerd stud walls packed full on insulation, air tight room, etc. - you'll get a lot more mileage out of the AC than you would normally.

Regards,
Wayne

**robbo266317** · **01-23-09, 01:57 AM**

Nice Job! Has the head stopped spinning?

I'm sure you're going to be happy with that.

**Sonnie** · **01-23-09, 01:59 AM**

What can I say... a modernized hillbilly?

The biggest thing is cooling with all that hot equipment running for several hours.

The minimum unit size is 1.5 ton... or so I am told.

$3200 installed with 4 air vents and a return air duct.

EDIT... my other HAC guy quoted me $2600 with 6 vents... 4 in the HT room and 2 in the hallway entrance.

**Sonnie** · **01-23-09, 02:03 AM**

Quote:

robbo266317 wrote:

Nice Job! Has the head stopped spinning?

I'm sure you're going to be happy with that.

I am mentally spent. To tell you have bad it has been... I went to the fitness center and was doing my normal job of 25 minutes. Before I knew it, it was over. It only seemed like I had been jogging for about 10 minutes and I was ready to go another 25. That excitement adrenaline will crank you up. I wonder if I will get any sleep tonight.

**Wayne A. Pflughaupt** · **01-23-09, 10:50 AM**

Have you considered some built in bass traps?

Reards,
Wayne

**Sonnie** · **01-23-09, 11:25 AM**

Yes... indeed I have. I was thinking about doing all four corners about 18" to 24" from each corner.

Something like this:

Name: cornertrap.gif
Views: 321
Size: 2.8 KB

Name: cornertrap.gif
Views: 321
Size: 2.8 KB

That would be built from floor to ceiling (8.5'). The face of the trap would be about 32" wide. GIK has the 2' x 4' panels, so I thought what I might do it cut a hole in the face of the panels about 1.5' x 7' and install two GIK panels over the cutout, stacking the panels for a 2' x 8' cover over the cutout. Or have them custom build me some 2' x 8' panels. I would also stuff the trap with insulation.

I am not sure if this would work well, but I bet Bryan will know.

I plan to add panels on the side walls and possibly on the ceiling as well. I may cover the rest of the front wall in panels, of which those I may build myself, but I don't know for sure yet. I am only going to be able to afford so many panels.

**Wayne A. Pflughaupt** · **01-24-09, 01:25 PM**

Quote:

Yes... indeed I have. I was thinking about doing all four corners about 18" to 24" from each corner.

Even better, I believe you can do the same kind of thing along the wall-ceiling corners, all the way around room. Or instead of the 45-degree thing, maybe a soffit build out. With traps the rule is "the more the better." You might poke around on Ethan's site, I believe he has some info on doing built-in traps.

Regards,
Wayne

**Sonnie** · **01-24-09, 07:16 PM**

I wonder how built in traps will affect the room modes due to the variance in room size?

I am not so sure I can do bass traps in the back corners. That is where I plan to place my rear surrounds and they will most likely be the ML's with the rear upward firing tweeter that really helps with dispersions for rears. I am afraid bass traps might deaden the highs too much, not sure though.

I have to be very careful with ML's because they do not like too many treatments. I will probably start with the standard front wall panel, a couple of side wall panels and a couple of ceiling panels, then go from there. I can always add corner traps, even via soffits, later if needed.

**Sonnie** · **01-25-09, 12:49 AM**

New revised layout... still not completely decided on width and length.

**Wayne A. Pflughaupt** · **01-25-09, 07:20 AM**

Did you have any panels in your old room?

Regards,
Wayne

**Sonnie** · **01-25-09, 11:14 AM**

Yeah... I had some 1" panels.

Here is a shot of the ones on the front wall...

Then the side walls were the same on each side...

And there was nothing in the back... just walls.

**Wayne A. Pflughaupt** · **01-25-09, 05:40 PM**

Your other room sounded just fine, IMO. I don't see a need to go overboard with treatments (for the upper frequencies), especially with the MLs. Everything you were describing above, it was sounding like you wanted the place as dead as a recording studio! Remember, you'll already have carpet and big padded chairs...

Regards,
Wayne

**Sonnie** · **01-25-09, 06:08 PM**

Yeah... after further thought, I decided it would be better to start out simple and increase as needed.

**Sonnie** · **01-27-09, 10:46 AM**

I got the tape measure out last night and did some exact measuring.

My height, figuring the plywood/sheetrock/padding/carpet, is going to end up at 8'7" (8.58). The only thing that will not be taken into account when figuring room modes will be the riser. I don't know that there is any calculator out there that will figure this.

The length/depth will be 23'2" (23.2). This includes 5.5" bottom plate up next to the current front and back walls + 5/8" ply + 5/8" rock. I have 24'4" now and subtract 6-3/4" from each end.

The width is variable from about 17' minimum to 19-1/2' maximum. I like the 19.5' best and it appears to be the best with modes if the height is constant at 8.58'.

**robbo266317** · **01-27-09, 03:06 PM**

That looks pretty good.

**Sonnie** · **01-27-09, 03:11 PM**

How do you go about figuring in the variance in height due to the riser... any idea?

**robbo266317** · **01-27-09, 03:15 PM**

Most sites say you take the average - the same as for a cathedral ceiling.
Its still only an aproximation though.

**Sonnie** · **01-27-09, 03:40 PM**

In that case... the average height will be 8.15' from front to back... still looks okay and midbass improves.

**robbo266317** · **01-27-09, 03:51 PM**

It would be nice to see some rew graphs of the room when it's built to see how it matches up in reality. (without furniture)

We're currently in the process of building a new house (plans only at the moment). Unfortunately the space available to me is limited to aprox 5.6m x 4 m x 2.7 m.

**Sonnie** · **01-27-09, 03:59 PM**

Yeah... that would be kinda neat to know how close it really is.

**Space** · **01-27-09, 05:52 PM**

Quote:

Sonnie wrote:

How do you go about figuring in the variance in height due to the riser... any idea?

I'm going to put this out here, Bryan may correct some or all of it. Room ratios and diminsions, in general, are taken from the hard boundaries of the room as a means to determine frequency response overall.

The addition of a stage or riser would fall more into the treatment of the room rather then part of the overall expected response from a specific room ratio. Things will be installed into these risers/stages, e.g. insulation inside, mass on the outside, carpets, etc., that will change or alter the cubic footage it takes up and the frequency response of the area it occupies.

Look at the room as an empty area. Even averaging of low to high ceiling heights or trays, cathedral types, etc., assume the room is empty.

That is my understanding, as of today

**Sonnie** · **01-27-09, 06:05 PM**

Looking at either one in my case, they both look pretty good. Of course we know all the stuff in the room is going to effect these modes some, but it surely can't be any worse that what I had, I don't think... I hope not... maybe not.

I am truly excited that I can have a 19½' width and enough depth to have space behind the rear seating row for floor standing surrounds and subs, etc...

**Sonnie** · **01-28-09, 05:11 PM**

Here are a few updated layouts...

Up front is the 2.35:1 screen flanked by acoustic panels from GIK Acoustics. In each front corner are the Audiopulse DIY ported subs (drivers sold by Funky Waves). The cabinet is loaded with an Onkyo TX-SR876 receiver, a pair of Behringer EP2500's, a DVD player and a satellite receiver... with a few DVDs up there to occupy space. The Martin Logan Spires mains and Matinee center round out the front area.

In the rear are the Martin Logan Clarity's with a pair of Exodus Maelstrom-X 18" drivers in an LLT manifold... ported out the front of the riser. Sitting on top of each driver cabinet is an EP2500. I will most likely build some sort of a DVD shelving section above the subs... recessed into the wall.

Along the side walls is the double door entrance and 4 more GIK Acoustic panels (2 on each side). I have some panels left over from my other HT room that I may install on the ceiling or in some other places on the walls, but first I want to see what it sounds like as it is laid out above. ML's do not like over treated rooms... and I may actually get diffusers for the front wall instead of absorbers.

**thewire** · **01-28-09, 08:58 PM**

With all that subwoofage it may be a good idea to bring a sub into the room and check the structure using some sine waves, knocking things with a broom stick, or playing a movie with lots of bass. It would be disappointing to build over the other walls only to find later there are loose ends such as the other drywall being unsecure, maybe a pipe in the wall that is loose etc.

Advertisement