RaZorTT's Theatre Build

[raZorTT]

I thought it was about time I started a build thread. People have helped me a great deal here which I really appreciate! Hopefully some might find parts of the thread useful.

My fiance and I are currently in the middle of renovating our house. My dad is a builder by trade so for the past 2 years he and I have been working weekends on the renos. It has been a fairly huge undertaking, we've changed/added rooms in all 4 directions and have basically gutted the house and started again.

The best part about the renovation is that we have built a room that is going to become our HT. There is still a bit to do on the house, but we are getting very close to being able to get stuck into building the HT.

The dimensions of the room are as follows:
width: 4800
length: 6000
Height: 3000

The room is maybe a fraction wider than I would have liked, but it could be converted into a rumpus/lounge room if we ever look to sell the house. The existing house is roughly 600mm off the ground so the ceilings of the existing house and theatre are at the same height, but the floor of the theatre is lower to get the extra height.

The room itself has been built for a while. It has just been used to store from various rooms while they get redone. I had to promise it would be the last room done because my fiance knew nothing else would get completed.

Frames up!
Trusses on
Sarcing and 1/2 the floor down
Windows, I'll be plugging these up
Brick work done

I haven't done too much with sound isolation other than insulating all the walls and using the thicker firecheck gyprock. I would have loved to do a double layer of gyprock with green glue in between, but it was going to cost a bit too much

I installed conduit and pre-wired for a 7.1 setup (I only have a 5.1 setup at the moment) before putting up the gyprock.

batons on ceiling and power cables!
Conduit and insulation

The plan at the moment is for 6 seats, two rows of three recliners. The riser at back of the room continues on from the floor in the existing house. so is quite high (stadium seating and there will be two steps down on each side of the front row. The front row will probably be around 3.3m from the screen, with the back row 4.6m. I'm planning on sitting in the front row the majority of the time.

Riser construction
Filled with insulation
Stage construction

At this stage i'm looking into a cinemascope screen from ozts, I think 130" - 140". I haven't made my mind up if i'll get the acoustically transparent screen yet or not. I'm waiting for Richard to send me a couple samples to see which gets the nod. I plan on building a screen wall about 600mm off the room wall so I can put my sub, centre and mains behind and out of sight. The screen wall will be covered in black GOM so that if I don't go with the AT screen I can position the centre just underneath pointing at the main listening position.

Screen wall

I've based my speaker positions on the Dolby recommendations of 22-30 degress for the left and right. 90-110 degrees for the surrounds and 135-150 for the rear surrounds. Do people bring them in closer when they user a transparent screen?

Speaker position

I really like the way sandman did his ceiling and soffits on the AVS forum, so i'm borrowing his ideas for my theatre. Around the side and rear the width will be 400mm with a 150mm light tray attached. On the front the soffit will be wider so I can install some downlights that will wash the screen. Like sandmans, the visible part of the light tray will either be wood or a veneer just to add some interest. I'm also planning on installing a rope light or LED strip in the light tray.

Sandman Ceiling/Soffit

I'll be installing a fibre optic star ceiling from starceiling-designer.com. I have a star map of the southern sky which I plan to replicate on the ceiling. I've worked out there will be around 16 1m2 panels with a total of nearly 800 stars ohmy.gif (1.5kms of optic fiber LOL). Having panels attached to the ceiling will also allow me to treat the first reflection points on the ceiling at the same time.

Building this might take me a while

For the walls I plan on treating them with insulation and then covering them with fabric panels. There are going to be 6 columns in the room, 2 on each side and two on the rear wall. I'll put the surround speakers in the 4 columns near the back of the room. I was thinking about turning the two columns that don't have speakers into DVD/Blu-Ray holders, but I might be making things a bit complicated

My colour scheme is going to be burgundy and black, with a wood trim that will match the light tray. I'm not sure which wood, but had thought of purple heart or maybe black sassafras. I may end up with something a little more mainstream though

Colour scheme

The theatre shares a wall with my office so I have built an equipment closet that can be accessed from the office. Unfortunately I built it a fraction to thin to stick a 19" rack into, so it'll be a custom solution. I might just try and get some rack rails and attach them to the wall, otherwise it'll just be custom shelves.

Framing the equiptment closet
Equiptment access
What's behind door number 2?
From in the theatre
[url=http://63.134.199.85/razortt/100_3127.jpgSpeaker cable[/url]
Power points in closet, I have another quad at the bottom

At the moment I have undercoated the ceiling and the walls. For no other reason than to stop myself brushing against the plaster every time I go in there

Undercoat

If you have made this far you've done well. I'm sure there is other stuff I should have mentioned

Next step for me will be starting to frame up the soffits, but it'll probably be a couple weeks before I can start that because I have some painting to do

Cheers,
Simon

[Prof.]

Wow Simon..This is going to be a very nice theatre..
But one thing..Why so many windows when they will have to be plugged anyway.?

raZorTT wrote:

I've based my speaker positions on the Dolby recommendations of 22-30 degress for the left and right. 90-110 degrees for the surrounds and 135-150 for the rear surrounds. Do people bring them in closer when they user a transparent screen?

Generally the best position for the L&R speakers with an AT screen is to bring them in to line up with the side edges of a projected 16:9 image..

I'll be following your progress closely and good luck with it all..

[raZorTT]

Prof. wrote:

Wow Simon..This is going to be a very nice theatre..
But one thing..Why so many windows when they will have to be plugged anyway.?

Thanks Prof, fingers crossed it all comes together as planned.

Going the whole hog and making the room a dedicated HT was a bit of an after thought. When I designed the extension I had always planned for it to be the room I would watch movies in etc, but it was going to be more like a rumpus room. By the time my fiance (she's a legend and I decided we should dedicate the room I had already gotten council approvals etc so didn't want to alter the design and then have to wait another 6 months to get approvals.

If we get sick of having a HT (yeah right ) we can always convert it back into a more traditional rumpus/lounge room which is good.

I'm going to build the plugs similar to yours so hopefully it won't have an adverse affect on the room. I think with treatments and the fabric panels it should be fine.

Prof. wrote:

Generally the best position for the L&R speakers with an AT screen is to bring them in to line up with the side edges of a projected 16:9 image..

I put up the post the other day about having two layers of GOM in front of speakers because I was trying to work out how to build the masking for a 2.37:1 screen. I think if I move the speakers inside the boundaries of 16:9 screen it would work out to be about 18-19 degrees from the main listening position. I guess not many people would be able to tell the difference between 18 and 22 degrees. Certainly solves the masking issue though

Prof. wrote:

I'll be following your progress closely and good luck with it all..

Thanks! How's your theatre been going?

Cheers,
Simon

[Prof.]

raZorTT wrote:

Going the whole hog and making the room a dedicated HT was a bit of an after thought. When I designed the extension I had always planned for it to be the room I would watch movies in etc, but it was going to be more like a rumpus room. By the time my fiance (she's a legend and I decided we should dedicate the room I had already gotten council approvals etc so didn't want to alter the design and then have to wait another 6 months to get approvals.

Understandable..

I'm going to build the plugs similar to yours so hopefully it won't have an adverse affect on the room. I think with treatments and the fabric panels it should be fine.

If I've interpreted your pics correctly, it looks like the windows will be on a side wall..
You might find that the windows line up (or near enough) with your first and second reflection points..In which case two of the plugs will work well as acoustic absorber panels..

Thanks! How's your theatre been going?

More changes and updates recently..
I've now got an Optoma HD projector but unfortunately it has a shorter throw than the Benq had..
So I had to move it back a bit.(so as not to bump my head on it) which meant having to make up a bigger screen..
Anyway it's all in and set up now and I am loving it!!

[raZorTT]

Prof. wrote:

If I've interpreted your pics correctly, it looks like the windows will be on a side wall..
You might find that the windows line up (or near enough) with your first and second reflection points..In which case two of the plugs will work well as acoustic absorber panels..

Yep spot on, the windows are down the right side of the room if you are facing the screen. That would be handy, knowing my luck though it'll be right in the middle of the columns

Prof. wrote:

More changes and updates recently..
I've now got an Optoma HD projector but unfortunately it has a shorter throw than the Benq had..
So I had to move it back a bit.(so as not to bump my head on it) which meant having to make up a bigger screen..
Anyway it's all in and set up now and I am loving it!!

Awesome, which model did you get? You are also running a scope setup aren't you? Is your screen a DIY?

Cheers,
Simon

[Prof.]

Simon, I bought the Optoma HD65..
I had some concerns about it, with all the lamp problems some people were having, but I managed to score a 3 year worldwide lamp insurance policy with the projector, so i won't have to worry about the lamp blowing prematurely..

It's a great little unit and last night I watched my first good quality Blu-ray movie..
It totally blew me away..FANTASTIC quality image..
I always thought my BD player did a good job of upconverting DVD's..but they paled into insignificance, compared to a good quality Blu-ray disc!!

I'm still running a scope set up..I could NEVER go back to just zooming again..

I had to give up my Silver Pearl screen ( too bright with this projector).. so since I had to make a bigger screen, I thought I would just paint a plain flat white one initially and see how it looked..
Well it looks great with this projector..brilliant whites and inky blacks...with nice skin tones as well..
No need to make up any thing else..

I'm very happy with the whole set up...as you might have guessed..

[raZorTT]

Prof. wrote:

Simon, I bought the Optoma HD65..
I had some concerns about it, with all the lamp problems some people were having, but I managed to score a 3 year worldwide lamp insurance policy with the projector, so i won't have to worry about the lamp blowing prematurely..

Nice work on the warranty! Did I read correctly that you bought it from Canada?

Prof. wrote:

It's a great little unit and last night I watched my first good quality Blu-ray movie..
It totally blew me away..FANTASTIC quality image..
I always thought my BD player did a good job of upconverting DVD's..but they paled into insignificance, compared to a good quality Blu-ray disc!!

A friend of mine just got himself the Sim2 D80E and he said he was amazed at how good the picture quality was with a bluray movie! I can't wait to get mine all setup. Not sure at this stage which projector though.

Prof. wrote:

I had to give up my Silver Pearl screen ( too bright with this projector).. so since I had to make a bigger screen, I thought I would just paint a plain flat white one initially and see how it looked..
Well it looks great with this projector..brilliant whites and inky blacks...with nice skin tones as well..
No need to make up any thing else..

Did you just use a standard flat white? Or did you get some of the special screen paints?

Cheers,
Simon

[Prof.]

raZorTT wrote:

Nice work on the warranty! Did I read correctly that you bought it from Canada?

Yes you did..I also got the lamp warranty from there as well..

A friend of mine just got himself the Sim2 D80E and he said he was amazed at how good the picture quality was with a bluray movie! I can't wait to get mine all setup. Not sure at this stage which projector though.

Are you planning on getting a 1080p.or 720p.

Did you just use a standard flat white? Or did you get some of the special screen paints?

I used the same paint I used for the base coat on the Silver Pearl..
It was Dulux Flat White..It has been tested as being a neutral white..

[raZorTT]

Prof. wrote:

Are you planning on getting a 1080p.or 720p.

I'm not really sure at this stage.. If the picture of a 720p was better than something that supported 1080p then i'd probably go with the 720. It can be pretty painful trying to demo projectors, the shops never seem to sell the competing brands

Prof. wrote:

I used the same paint I used for the base coat on the Silver Pearl..
It was Dulux Flat White..It has been tested as being a neutral white..

What sized nap did you use on your roller? I'd imagine it would have to be pretty small otherwise it might affect the picture.

Cheers,
Simon

[Prof.]

raZorTT wrote:

I'm not really sure at this stage.. If the picture of a 720p was better than something that supported 1080p then i'd probably go with the 720. It can be pretty painful trying to demo projectors, the shops never seem to sell the competing brands

This is one of the reasons why I bought the HD65..
It supports 1080p. very well..and I doubt anyone could pick that it's not a 1080p.projector..

Trying to decide on a particular make and model of projector with demo's at shops, is an exercise in futility IMO..
I've bought both my projectors on peoples recommendations on various forums..
Extremely pleased with both choices..

What sized nap did you use on your roller? I'd imagine it would have to be pretty small otherwise it might affect the picture.

I used a good quality 4mm. Mohair nap and absolutely no marks or lines on the screen..

[raZorTT]

I jumped into sketchup and moved the speakers around and put in some masking panels at the 16:9 point.

Screen frame

Do you think I should build some little stands to get the mains off the sub?

Cheers,
Simon

[Prof.]

Normally the L&R speakers would be just on the outsideedge of the 16:9 image..but that would then require you to make acoustically transparent masks..
With them on the inside of the image, you may not have a wide enough soundstage..
It will probably depend on how wide the finished screen is going to be..

I would definitely raise those speakers off the subs..
Just making a solid platform, slightly above and over the length of the sub and isolated from the floor, would be all you need to raise the speakers slightly..

[raZorTT]

Prof. wrote:

Normally the L&R speakers would be just on the outsideedge of the 16:9 image..but that would then require you to make acoustically transparent masks..
With them on the inside of the image, you may not have a wide enough soundstage..
It will probably depend on how wide the finished screen is going to be..

The plan was to cover the masks with black GOM, but then I would have the sound going through two transparent materials. Maybe that's a compromise I need to make for 16:9 material. It's probably only going to be some television shows so might not be that big a deal.

Prof. wrote:

I would definitely raise those speakers off the subs..
Just making a solid platform, slightly above and over the length of the sub and isolated from the floor, would be all you need to raise the speakers slightly..

One option for me would be to build some platforms that attach to the screen wall to lift them up. The other is to do some test with the subs standing up instead of lying down. The VAF SW19 is two halves connected by a speaker cable so I potentially could stand them on their ends.

I've got REW and I also have gotten the external SB ready to hook into my sound meter. Standing them up might be good because it will potentially give me more options for placement.

Cheers,
Simon

[Prof.]

raZorTT wrote:

The plan was to cover the masks with black GOM, but then I would have the sound going through two transparent materials. Maybe that's a compromise I need to make for 16:9 material. It's probably only going to be some television shows so might not be that big a deal.

Even though I have a solid screen, It doesn't bother me with no masking for 16:9, particularly TV shows..
If you want masks with the AT screen, then I would just use some grill cloth to cover them..

One option for me would be to build some platforms that attach to the screen wall to lift them up. The other is to do some test with the subs standing up instead of lying down. The VAF SW19 is two halves connected by a speaker cable so I potentially could stand them on their ends.

I've got REW and I also have gotten the external SB ready to hook into my sound meter. Standing them up might be good because it will potentially give me more options for placement.

Aha!! I hadn't realized it was a split sub..
VERY nice sub by the way..I've always liked VAF speakers, and I believe that sub is right up there with the best of them..
I think standing them up would be the way to go..

[raZorTT]

Prof. wrote:

Even though I have a solid screen, It doesn't bother me with no masking for 16:9, particularly TV shows..
If you want masks with the AT screen, then I would just use some grill cloth to cover them..

I think I will probably be the same, I guess i'll try and design things so it's easy enough to add masking later if it does get on my nerves

Prof. wrote:

Aha!! I hadn't realized it was a split sub..
VERY nice sub by the way..I've always liked VAF speakers, and I believe that sub is right up there with the best of them..

Thanks I haven't really had much of a chance to play with it.. I had originally just hooked it up quickly to make sure it worked and then put it away. After starting the thread and needing to clear things out of the study I made some room for it in the lounge room, so now have it hooked up . I still need to make some adjustments to the level, but it is absolutely awesome! Every time I chuck in a movie (like master & commander or u571 for example) I just sit there giggling when the bass kicks in. My favorite so far has been the end of the 1812 overtue when the canons go off You would swear they were in the room with you

Prof. wrote:

I think standing them up would be the way to go..

Thanks prof, I think i'll take your suggestion on board and move the speakers so they are somewhere between the 16:9 and the 2.37:1 boundaires. I think that should give me the option to either lie them down or stand them up. Standing up would probably look cool if I went with the back lit thing like sandman

Cheers,
Simon

[Prof.]

raZorTT wrote:

I think I will probably be the same, I guess i'll try and design things so it's easy enough to add masking later if it does get on my nerves

If your projector/screen combo. produces good black levels, then it shouldn't be a problem..

Thanks prof, I think i'll take your suggestion on board and move the speakers so they are somewhere between the 16:9 and the 2.37:1 boundaires. I think that should give me the option to either lie them down or stand them up. Standing up would probably look cool if I went with the back lit thing like sandman

That would be spooky!!

[raZorTT]

Hey Prof,

What sort of lighting setup do you have in your theatre?

I'm trying to decide if I should order a lutron grafik eye QS to control my different zones.

I had spoken to a few people about clipsal and dynalite but they all sound more expensive and generally won't allow me to set them up.

Does anyone know of a good place to purchase the Lutron from? They have to have the 240V version and ship to Australia

Cheers,
Simon

[Prof.]

Simon,

I have a fairly simple set up for lighting..using an HPM Super Dimmer..
It gives an automatic slow lights up and slow dim (speed rate adjustable) or double click on the remote for instant lights out..
All the lighting is controlled by my Harmony remote with sequential programming, so that when I hit "play", the movie starts and the lights dim..
Visitors to my theatre are usually very impressed with this..

[raZorTT]

Prof. wrote:

Simon,

I have a fairly simple set up for lighting..using an HPM Super Dimmer..
It gives an automatic slow lights up and slow dim (speed rate adjustable) or double click on the remote for instant lights out..
All the lighting is controlled by my Harmony remote with sequential programming, so that when I hit "play", the movie starts and the lights dim..
Visitors to my theatre are usually very impressed with this..

Thanks Prof.

So you have 1 "zone" of lights?

Cheers,
Simon

[Prof.]

Yes..All my lights are downlights so they all get controlled together..

[raZorTT]

I've been trying to work out my treatments based on things bpape has mentioned and things that i've read in some of Prof's and cinema mad's threads.

Here is a picture of what i'm currently thinking.

Theatre treatments

Based on what I could find going through the various threads, Bradfords Ultratel is the most suitable insulation for treatments on the sidewall and rear walls. The rear walls (slightly different colour) should have an FSK or equivalent facing to keep the rear a little lively (thanks bpape!). I had planned for the sides and rear to be 25mm (1") thick.

What about the screen wall? Is that supposed to absorb as much as possible? Is Ultratel the most suitable for that? I had planned on the screen wall being 50mm (2") thick.

Are the superchunk style corner bass traps more efficient that hanging full sheets in the corner with an air gap? I had always planned to do the superchunks but some of the descriptions of corner traps have made me wonder.

I noticed cinema mad mention quietel in his bass traps thread. Would this be better than ultratel as the superchunks?

Cheers,
Simon

[Prof.]

raZorTT wrote:

I've been trying to work out my treatments based on things bpape has mentioned and things that i've read in some of Prof's and cinema mad's threads.

Here is a picture of what i'm currently thinking.

Theatre treatments

Based on what I could find going through the various threads, Bradfords Ultratel is the most suitable insulation for treatments on the sidewall and rear walls. The rear walls (slightly different colour) should have an FSK or equivalent facing to keep the rear a little lively (thanks bpape!). I had planned for the sides and rear to be 25mm (1") thick.

What about the screen wall? Is that supposed to absorb as much as possible? Is Ultratel the most suitable for that? I had planned on the screen wall being 50mm (2") thick.

Simon,

I would be inclined to do it the other way round..
Put the 1" thick Ultratel across the front wall..and the 2" thick on the side and back walls..

Are the superchunk style corner bass traps more efficient that hanging full sheets in the corner with an air gap? I had always planned to do the superchunks but some of the descriptions of corner traps have made me wonder.

There seems to be two schools of thought on this..Some say chunks are best , and others say flat panels across the corners...
I have 6" thick panels across the corners and they do a good job..

I would suggest that what Jason has done would be a very effective trap..
From what I understand, he's used 4" thick Ultratel with a 2" thick Quietel panel to make up a 6" corner trap..

Also, your sketchup isn't showing any rear corner traps..Is this just an oversight?

[raZorTT]

Prof. wrote:

Simon,

I would be inclined to do it the other way round..
Put the 1" thick Ultratel across the front wall..and the 2" thick on the side and back walls..

Really? would it just be better to go 2" everywhere then? From what I've read you want the screen wall as dead as possible?

Prof. wrote:

There seems to be two schools of thought on this..Some say chunks are best , and others say flat panels across the corners...
I have 6" thick panels across the corners and they do a good job..

I would suggest that what Jason has done would be a very effective trap..
From what I understand, he's used 4" thick Ultratel with a 2" thick Quietel panel to make up a 6" corner trap..

Did you originally plan to do the chunks? I thought I remembered you telling someone how to cut them up, maybe I just assumed that's what you had.

I don't really mind which option because it's behind the screen wall anyway. Just want the best option available

Prof. wrote:

Also, your sketchup isn't showing any rear corner traps..Is this just an oversight?

I'm not sure what to do for the rear corners. Here's a pic of my dilemma

Rear treatments

The door on the side of the room doesn't leave much room for a corner trap, from the edge of the door to the rear wall is only around 200mm.

Would it be worth doing a baby superchunk in there?

I have room to play inside my soffits if that will help the room? I was just going to fill with insulation, but I can leave an air gap behind it if that will help it act as an absorber?

Cheers,
Simon

[bpape]

The front wall can be 1" or 2". I prefer 2" to help deeper with SBIR issues as well as surround reflections.

On the side walls, do the first 5' or so floor to ceiling. 1" is OK if space is at a premium.

On the rear wall, use something thicker and do full wall coverage - but use an FSK facing on it to keep the surround lively while still being able to help with nulls off the rear wall in the bass range.

Bryan

[Prof.]

raZorTT wrote:

Really? would it just be better to go 2" everywhere then? From what I've read you want the screen wall as dead as possible?

Well if you were going to use two different thicknesses, then that's the way I would do it..But using 2" thick all round would be better..

Did you originally plan to do the chunks? I thought I remembered you telling someone how to cut them up, maybe I just assumed that's what you had.

I was originally going to use chunks, but then I heard about the effectiveness of spaced flat corner panels for traps..
So I decided to try the panels first ( much less work..) and see how they performed..I could always do the chunks later if need be..
I was so impressed with the bass performance that I decided to leave it as they were.

I'm not sure what to do for the rear corners. Here's a pic of my dilemma

Rear treatments

The door on the side of the room doesn't leave much room for a corner trap, from the edge of the door to the rear wall is only around 200mm.

Would it be worth doing a baby superchunk in there?

That's a nasty little corner..
It doesn't look to be much corner wall area with the door open..but with the door closed, you then have a large empty corner again..
There's probably not much you can do about it...Possibly placing a vertical panel on the side wall above your existing insulation..and a panel on the door, might help a bit..

I have room to play inside my soffits if that will help the room? I was just going to fill with insulation, but I can leave an air gap behind it if that will help it act as an absorber?

I would still fill any soffits with insulation..