Steve's New Theatre

**Steve Williamson** · **05-11-06, 06:54 PM**

As I stated in my introduction message, I am about to start building a house on the Gold Coast and have attached the plan of what will be the main theatre.

My plans for equipment at present include a Z4 projector, main media centre PC to output directly to projector, external storage using 4 x 500Gb Drives in raid 1, background media centre server to hold movie database and stream media to 5 XBox 360's around house. Need ideas on speakers (7.1) and amplification for the room roughly 19' 10" by 14' 8".

I checked these dimensions with the spreadsheet for room dynamics and I cannot find the file at the moment, but it showed only 4 problem frequencies spread equally throughout the full range. Although that did not take into account the small increase in width near the door, I am hoping acoustic panels will sort that out!

All the equipment is in the Electrical Room next to the media room, with cabling entering from the space under the stairs. Soundcheck plasterboard is used throughout the media room and an external firedoor is being used for the entrance to the theatre.

I have opted for cable strung lighting to minimise holes in the room and plan to fill the rear riser with glass fibre insulation, allowing a small access panel for power sockets for two rows of 4 seater powered recliners, one on the raised section and one in front of it.

I will use a fixed projector screen of around 100" 16:9 with felt or similar frame covering.

Colour will be dark tan or brown with dark ceiling.

Media centre will utilise the home automation add in for lighting control.

Any advice on equipment selection, and all the things I have surely missed out, would be extremely welcome.

I would prefer wall mount rear and side effect speakers and would like to buil in the LCR speakers and sub(s) to a fixture around the screen, would building in the subs affect their perfomance?

Thanks

Steve

**Sonnie** · **05-11-06, 07:15 PM**

Sounds like it's gonna be nice.

What kind of money have you budgeted for speakers and amplification?

The only drawback to flush mounting the sub is you will be pretty much stuck with the location of it and it's hard to test it before hand. It's not like you can go around cutting a bunch of holes in the wall to test it in different locations. It also limits you to a forward facing sub... no downfiring. Of course you could do an IB if you could work it out either in the Store room or Electrical room on that side of your HT room.... or the attic.

Good selection on the Z4

**Steve Williamson** · **05-11-06, 07:36 PM**

I was hoping for decent speakers to around A$5000, and about the same for amplifiers, equalisers etc.

Whats IB?

Store would be great location, no room in electrical room and this theatre is on the ground floor with my library above it so no attic!

I chose the Z4 after reading the reviews, I still have to test one in a demo room but they look good for the price, and they are easy to get over here in Aus, so service etc is easy.

Also, does anyone know who will set up the projector once it is fitted in Australia, my Epson took ages by eye and I am still not happy with it.

Nice to be involved with a forum from near its beginnings, keep up the good work, you certainly know what you are talking about, I still have to learn about house curves etc

**Sonnie** · **05-11-06, 09:21 PM**

Thanks on the forum Steve... we are gonna do our best. We have some fine fella's helping us moderate.

If the currency converter is working right that 5000AUD is about 3900US.

So you will spend as much as 10,000AUD or 7800US for speakers and amplification? You can do a lot with that.

Educate me a little... can you order about anything that's available in the US over in Australia and/or can you order from the US or are you wanting to stay in Australia?

IB=Infinite Baffle - I'm not that up to date on it but basically your speaker box volume is infinite to the extent of the size of your ajacent room where the rear of the speaker is open to. There are a lot of subs made for this. I can't remember who had them but someone posted a pic of two IB subs offset into the wall and firing at each other. Of course you can get really creative. If you are interested in IB then you might post in Speakers and ask for recommendations for IB subs and design... you can point the back to here if you want, but at least you got two threads going to help you get more attention.

**Steve Williamson** · **05-12-06, 02:46 AM**

Sonnie, I would prefer to buy equipment sold in Australia as I have come across to many (japan especially) territorial warranties where you have to send the item back to the country you purchased it from.

Freight is expensive to here, it costs about $60 to receive a 15" LCD TV from Japan.

We can get most makes but items like SV Subwoofers, I think can only be imported from the states.

Our CE stores like Harvey Norman etc are useless as they prefer to sell HT in a box items, not so much seperates like amplifiers or speakers.

I wanted surround speakers to be multi spacial (if thats a word) as the speaker will be placed in between the two rows of seats.

Looked into IB Subs, they say the only draw back is lack of damping being in free air and resulting loss of detail, have you come across that?

**RodN** · **05-12-06, 07:39 AM**

Hi Steve,

Very nice looking room - 4 and a bit by 6 and a bit? "Avical" do projector calibrations, he's ISF certified and does a very nice job and flies all around Australia for it. I can put you onto someone closer to home if you're interested.

SVS are now in Australia as well. You can purchase/order from here: http://www.deephzaudio.com/index.html

Many of the IB users are from Australia. You can get good drivers from WES whom I believe are in Queensland? They sell the likes of Peerless.

Cheers

**Sonnie** · **05-12-06, 12:59 PM**

Unfortunately Steve, I'm not all that familiar with the detail of IB, but I know some very critical folks who use them, so I would think they could be build for the most demanding person.

Mabye some of our IB guys will chime in.

Of course if you are gonna buy then SVS is hard to pass up IMO. I wanna say all of their subs are downfiring though... which might make it tricky for flush mounting of somekind. The cylinders might be an option... they could pass for nice decor in the corners.

As far as mains and surrounds... whew, there is just so many to choose from. I like PSB and was extremely pleased with their Image line. They have a Platinum series that's awesome. Then I know a lot of people who love their Klipsch... I really enjoyed my Forte's back in the day and I think their Reference line is supposedly better. Of course some folks don't like the horns. They own, or merged with Aragon I think... who makes fabulous amps. I own VMPS RM30's and they have a department in Europe... check out their surrounds... wicked ribbons!

On amps... I'd check out the Earthquake Cinenova Grande 7. It's a big daddy and will do all you need most likely. Excellent reviews! If you wanna get more critical with music you might consider NuForce.

Those are a few I can throw at you, but as I said... there are literally thousands.

**Steve Williamson** · **05-13-06, 03:43 AM**

Thankis for the advice, when I start building I wil start a new thread to document what is going on.

The equipment you have stated looks great, I might have to increase my budget 3 or 4 fold though, the Earthquake Cinenova Grande 7 looks nice, but is the 600 watts RMS or total?.

Thanks RodN for the link for SVS gear, I wil have to seriously consider their subs and have two cylindrical in each corner if that works out OK. Trying not to cut holes in walls for soundproofing reasons so I will have to have free standing subs.

I will look at Klipsch speakers as they have a good presence in Aus.

By the way, how loud do you play your systems, I am always worried about the neighbours where I am presently, no soundproofing and several large single glazed windows. I don't think I have maxed out the pioneer thats rated at 5 x 120W RMS + 100W sub

**JCD** · **05-13-06, 04:02 PM**

I did a quick look on Ebay's Australia website to see what's available in Australia.. another speaker brand I think you should take a look at is Paradigm. It's the brand I bought when I went through my research process.
I found something online here in Australia.

I also saw that they sell speakers from Monitor, Wharfedale, Tannoy and Polk. All brands that I've heard good things from.

I don't know what small hi-fi shops you might have near you, but I'd take a look in your phone book for some of the small to medium sized stores. Go to as many as you can and audition whatever they have. Speakers are a personal choice, so pick what sounds best to you.

Avoid the big box chains -- they generally don't carry anything in the price range you're looking at.

Also, I may or may not be in the minority with this opinion, but I think your budget ratio between speakers and electronics is off. I'd be inclined to spend more on the speakers than the electronics -- maybe to the tune of 65/35. To me, speakers are the most important part of your sound system, so I'd spend my $$ accordingly.

As for IB subs -- have to admit that I've yet to hear one in person. That being said, every one I've talked to/typed at that's heard an IB sub has always preferred the IB to a traditional box sub. There is more involved with an IB, but they are suppoed sound amazing across the board -- deeper, cleaner, tigher, louder bass. I've drunk the spiked Kool-Aid and will be installing one in my listening room when I start construction. I wish I had more information to give you, but I'm a noob regarding IB's as well. If you haven't been here, I'd give their FAQ a look. Like I said, more involved, and sometimes can't be done, but the end result is supposed to be awesome.

JCD

**Sonnie** · **05-14-06, 01:14 AM**

Quote:

Steve Williamson wrote:

The equipment you have stated looks great, I might have to increase my budget 3 or 4 fold though, the Earthquake Cinenova Grande 7 looks nice, but is the 600 watts RMS or total?.

600 watts per channel into 4 ohms, which my RM30's are 4 ohms.

**Steve Williamson** · **05-16-06, 04:27 AM**

Hooray, the house we have been waiting to sell has gone unconditional so we are now waiting for the first week of June to start the construction process.

This has lifted a large weight of our chests.

The RM30's look interesting, but I am looking at JB Labs or Teufel that provide dipole surrounds to produce THX certification on 7.? systems.

Does anyone think THX is important in a home theatre?

**toecheese** · **05-16-06, 10:31 AM**

Quote:

Steve Williamson wrote:

Looked into IB Subs, they say the only draw back is lack of damping being in free air and resulting loss of detail, have you come across that?

Huh?! IB Subs are for detail explicity. Damping *distorts* sound.

**JCD** · **05-16-06, 11:15 AM**

Quote:

Steve Williamson wrote:

Hooray, the house we have been waiting to sell has gone unconditional so we are now waiting for the first week of June to start the construction process.

This has lifted a large weight of our chests.

The RM30's look interesting, but I am looking at JB Labs or Teufel that provide dipole surrounds to produce THX certification on 7.? systems.

Does anyone think THX is important in a home theatre?

Congratulations on selling your house! I've been there, I know what a huge relief it can be.

As for THX certification, I don't put much stock in it. It guarantees a minimum standard, but not much else. I ignore it almost completely.

Dipole surrounds -- there are some that like them and some that don't. I have them, and if I had to do it all over again, I'd probably NOT get the dipoles. But, that's just me.
They cost more and they seem to be more "picky" about where you put them.

JCD

**Steve Williamson** · **05-16-06, 05:01 PM**

Quote:

Huh?! IB Subs are for detail explicity. Damping *distorts* sound.

I thought that the reason you used multiple subs in an IB was because of the non damping issue and heat, also, don't most newer boxed subs have some form of mechnical damping system as well to produce a tighter cleaner bass sound?

I thought this system was the same as having gas struts on a car.

**JCD** · **05-16-06, 05:20 PM**

I'll admit that I'm not sure about the damping issue, but the reason for multiple subs in an IB subwoofer system is that they're not as efficient as a traditional box sub. You usually need to get something like 2 (or more?) drivers in an IB to get the same SPL as a single driver in a regular box sub.

What you're supposed to gain is cleaner, better bass.

JCD

**Sonnie** · **05-16-06, 10:40 PM**

Quote:

Steve Williamson wrote:

Hooray, the house we have been waiting to sell has gone unconditional so we are now waiting for the first week of June to start the construction process.

This has lifted a large weight of our chests.

The RM30's look interesting, but I am looking at JB Labs or Teufel that provide dipole surrounds to produce THX certification on 7.? systems.

Congrats on the house being sold.... construction is always fun. We've built two houses and loved every minute of it.

These are the VMPS Dipole surrounds I was referring too:

And here's the center:

And you might as well go ahead and have them crate up a couple of these for ya:

Or heck... go for the gusto:

**toecheese** · **05-17-06, 12:31 PM**

Quote:

Steve Williamson wrote:

I thought that the reason you used multiple subs in an IB was because of the non damping issue and heat, also, don't most newer boxed subs have some form of mechnical damping system as well to produce a tighter cleaner bass sound?

Nope, the reason is not that they're less efficient- they're more efficient mechanically. It's that we're ignoring half the energy of the speaker- we 'throw away' the derived sound wave.

So, to make up for it, we add in more subs to get our SPL to where we want (I'm still searching for a definitive guide to how much this is).

As far as new box designs, yes, they're using passive radiators to trade off airflow for more sound. Read up on it here: http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/speaker10.htm

But any of those are just tradeoffs- even though passive radiators put out more sound- that sound is ~180 out of phase and doesn't help clarity.

**JCD** · **05-17-06, 01:02 PM**

Quote:

toecheese wrote:

Nope, the reason is not that they're less efficient- they're more efficient mechanically. It's that we're ignoring half the energy of the speaker- we 'throw away' the derived sound wave.

So, to make up for it, we add in more subs to get our SPL to where we want (I'm still searching for a definitive guide to how much this is).

Toecheese is right -- he said what I meant to say much more clearly.

JCD

**Steve Williamson** · **05-23-06, 09:30 PM**

I would love an IB but i don't want to start having to sound proof extra rooms.

I have decided on the attached plan as the way ahead, we move into rented accomodation next week so everything is on plan.

Any comments or suggestions are very welcome.

**toecheese** · **05-23-06, 10:18 PM**

Looks like an IB sub would be perfect into the electrical room... (provided it is sealed)

**Josuah** · **05-24-06, 01:22 AM**

I don't think sealing up the electrical room would be a good idea. And yeah, unless your infinite baffle went to the outside, you would have to sound-proof (a lot, since bass waves penetrate a lot) the other side of that room and decouple the wall that is acting as your baffle or else the rest of your house is shaking.

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