Home Theater Forum and Systems banner

ALM Family HT Room

Tags
alm family ht
155K views 901 replies 47 participants last post by  ALMFamily 
#1 · (Edited)
Hello!

In order to make it easier to search for specific topics in the build thread, I am going to put a unique phrase at the top of each post so the search function can pick it up and allow someone to find all the posts about a certain part of the build. The phrase follows each entry below. Way too much detail I am sure but eh, if it helps one person, it is worth it.

1. Projector discussion / decisions - ALMFamilyproj
2. Star Panels discussion / construction - ALMFamilyspanel
3. AVR discussion / decisions - ALMFamilyavr
4. Movie Poster display (poaching this idea from TKNice an example here) - ALMFamilyposter
5. Soundproofing discussion / decisions - ALMFamilysound
6. Room Construction - ALMFamilyconstr
7. Lighting - ALMFamilylights
8. Room automation - ALMFamilyauto
9. Room cooling - ALMFamilyHVAC
10. Acoustics discussion / decisions - ALMFamilyacoust
11. Carpet - color scheme - ALMFamilycarpet
12. Other AV equipment (amps, etc) - ALMFamilyothrav
13. Speaker / Sub discussion / decisions - ALMFamilyspeak
14. Video Calibration - ALMFamilyvcalib
15. Audio Calibration - ALMFamilyREW

After getting a bit of feedback on a budget, I have decided to start the build process. :clap:

Thanks for taking the time to read through all this. Any feedback / suggestions are much appreciated!

So, the room is in the basement with no windows. It is an odd-shaped room due to the breaker panel, sump pump, pressure tank and water main valve being located there, but it is roughly a 14'x21'x7.5' area. Here are a couple of pictures:





After a bit of hand-wrangling, I decided to wall in the space visible on the right side of the 1st picture to allow for a flat wall for the screen to be located.

Here is a sketch of my preliminary floor plan:

View attachment HT room.pdf

After reading through the screen and projector forums, I decided to determine what screen size I wanted to go with first. In order to leave some room on either side of the screen for the front L/R speakers and to keep them a bit away from the wall (my initial thought is to go with towers), I settled on a 103" diagonal screen. I want to do 2 rows of seating, so the 1st row will be at roughly 10' and the second at 16'. The shape of the room should allow me to put a projection closet in the back with a projection distance of about 19'. Most of the advice I read in our forums pointed to trying to get a projector / screen build that would provide 16 Fl. After plugging all the numbers into Projector Pro, I settled on an Epson 8700UB with a 103" diagonal screen with 0.7 screen gain.

Now that I have bored everyone to tears with that novella :yikes: , I was hoping someone could poke holes in my "logic". :bigsmile: I have purchased nothing, and will probably wait until I read through everyone's opinions / feedback.

I am planning to soundproof as much as I can, so I have started putting green glue/ 5/8"drywal lin between the floor joists. I have also started banging up my false wall, but having 3 kids trying to sleep really limits that time.. :blink: I will be using whisper clips / channel and doing 2 layers of 5/8" drywall with green glue in between.

I am thinking about going with 7.2 for a speaker arrangement, but I am wondering if 2 subs is too much for my space. If that does work,I am leaning toward the Onkyo TX-NR809 for a receiver unless someone points out a better choice.

That's about as far as I have made it to this point. Any thoughts / opinions / feedback is greatly appreciated!

Thanks everyone!
 
See less See more
3
#2 ·
Welcome to the craziness.

Your screen size should be determined by seating position. Ideally, first row would be somwhere around 13' 4" rather than 16'.

2 subs isn't a problem at all in that room.

The front speakers are still essentially corner loaded with a screen that side so you'll need to be double sure to address those corners and the wall beside the speakers with treatment up to the task of taking care of boundary interactions.

Bryan
 
#3 · (Edited)
ALMFamilyacoust

Bryan,

The first row is actually at 10', not 16'. Do you think I would be better off doing a slightly smaller screen size - say around 92" diagonally? That was my original plan for screen size, but I got caught up by the "bigger is better" hype. :innocent:

On the plus side, that would also allow me more space to move the front speakers further from the walls.

Thanks for the reply!

Joe
 
#4 ·
The difference won't be a lot in terms of speaker position. You're going to need to address those places anyway. With the back row farther back at 16', 92 is going to be a bit on the small side.

Be very careful with your seats though. 10' is in that 40-60% of length range where a lot of very low and hard to address modal problems from the room length are going to happen.

Bryan
 
#5 · (Edited)
ALMFamilyacoust ALMFamilyconstr

Bryan,

I have read some other threads where having seating be at 38% of the room length is mentioned. Is this what you mean?

If so, I looked at trying to configure that way, but the fact that I would like to do 2 rows seemed to throw a kink in that. Roman suggests that a riser needs to be at least 6' in width which pushed me to putting the front row seat back position to that 10' mark. If I was to push the front row closer to reach that 38%, I would be at about 8-8.5' which seems like it might be a bit too close.

As I said earlier, this is my 1st HT build so I have no preset ideas as to what might be the best way to go. That said, would putting the seats at 8.5' and 14.5-15' with a smaller screen size address the modal issue you mentioned? If so, what would your opinion be for a potential screen size?

Thanks again for the replay Bryan!

Joe
 
#6 ·
In theory, 38% works very well. In reality, one normally ends up between 33 and 38% for best bass response. The 40-60% area puts you in a lot of strong modes.

Being 8.5' from the front wall allows you to use a smaller screen to have the same included field of view. THX specs dictate a minimum of 36 degrees included angle for that field. A smaller screen has many benefits.

- Brighter picture with the same PJ
- More flexibility in where to mount the PJ
- Smaller pixel size overall
- More space to pull speakers away from the wall.
- Lower cost

Also, this would let you get the back row farther from the rear wall which gets them out of the boomy area close to a boundary as well as giving a more spacious surround field.

Bryan
 
#7 · (Edited)
ALMFamilyacoust

Bryan,

First off, thanks very much for your time. Hopefully, I am not asking questions that are incredibly dense.

Using the calcultion I found at THX's site, they suggest a seating distance of approximately 9 feet for a 92" screen. If I put the seating at that distance, that would put those seats at 41% of the room's length. Is there anything I can do to address the modal issues you spoke of without reducing the seating distance / screen size any further? Or, would those issues be negligible enough at 41% to maintain that seating distance / screen size?

Joe
 
#8 ·
Just keep in mind that their recommendation is more than their minimum specification. Going from 41 to38% is only moving you approx 6". Viewing angles will still be fine.

Bryan
 
#9 · (Edited)
ALMFamilyacoust ALMFamilyproj

Thanks very much for your help Bryan!

I may have to rethink my projection room idea since the throw distance is @19' which may not work with a
92" screen, but having better sound / visuals is definitely more important than where I put the projector.

It looks like the Epson 8350might work, but that is right at it's maximum throw range for that screen size......
 
#10 · (Edited)
ALMFamilyconstr

After some suggestions from Bryan, I re-did the floor plan a bit to adjust screen size, seating distance, and placement of columns / speakers. Here is the new sketch:

View attachment HT room.pdf

Still researching if I can get a suitable projector to maintain the projector room - more to come......
 
#12 · (Edited)
ALMFamilyconstr ALMFamilyproj

Well, time for a quick update!

CONSTRUCTION:

I have been plugging away at the ceiling the last week to add drywall between the floor joists. Due to an install of tiles over linoleum in the kitchen a few years ago, there were a slew of screws poking through the OSB. I decided to put a layer of 3/8" rigid insulation up first to cover all those points and then green glue / drywall. I have about 1/3 of the ceiling done.

I am waiting on the HVAC guy to get back to me about solutions for heating /cooling that room.

EQUIPMENT:

I have decided to go with the EPSON 8350 projector. The discussion can be found here :

http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...rs/51453-1st-projector-advice.html#post470065

I have a quick how-to question for anyone doing soffit that has a rope light tray. I was hoping someone could give a quick overview of how they are creating that tray.


Thanks!
 
#13 · (Edited)
ALMFamilyconstr ALMFamilysound

So, I have not been able to get too much accomplished over the last week - having 3 kids really cuts into work time! :rofl2:

I am not sure how much detail to provide, so for now I am going to err on the side of too much. :dumbcrazy:

I have continued to install drywall between the floor joists to create mass. As stated in the previous post, I had screws poking out of the OSB and it would have been a large undertaking to trim them flush with the OSB.



So, we decided to get some 3/8" rigid insulation and install that first to cover the screws. We used a staple gun to staple it to the OSB.





I doubt it will provide much soundproofing if any, but at least it gave us a flat surface to adhere the drywall to. Then, it was installing the GG/drywall. Instead of using screws and potentially going through the floor the opposite way or running into the other screws, we used 1x2 furring strips cut into 2' lengths and screwed them to the joists to hold everything up. Once all the drywall is up,we will be using noise sealant on all the seams.





This weekend's project will be to address the ductwork and air returns that run through the space. Due to the low ceiling, we are using the hanging method suggested by Ted to reduce the amount of drop for the clips / channel/ sheetrock which means we need to redo the depth of the air returns. We are also changing to flex ductwork as much as we can. Here are a couple pics of the areas:





Here is a link to the post containing a picture of Ted's suggested hanging method(post #9):

http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...-construction/51101-budgeting-ht-project.html

Sorry for the long post! :R
 
#14 · (Edited)
ALMFamilyspanel

OK, I was thinking a bit down the road about installing the fiber optic starry sky effects.

I would love to be able to do this, but I am trying to determine if it is possible in my room. My ceilings are only 7.5', and I plan to soundproof the entire room. Unless I am missing something, I will need to either install the fiber optic cables through 2 layers of drywall and GG, or I will need to put up another layer of sheetrock or ceiling tiles which I just cannot do due to the lack of height.

Any suggestions or alternative ideas? :help:
 
#15 · (Edited)
ALMFamilyconstr ALMFamilyspanel

So, I was pretty much done with adding mass to the ceiling. Since we are getting rain / snow here today and I cannot work outside, I thought I would go downstairs this morning to look at HVAC ideas / solutions. Lo and behold - there is a puddle of water on my floor and water dripping from the joists. It looks like the people that put in our french doors did a poor job sealing it.........:crying::hissyfit::foottap:

The good news - I could only see one piece of drywall I will need to replace.......

Oh, and I found a possible solution for my starry sky:

http://www.iskypanels.com/

Checking pricing, but has anyone looked at these before and has an opinion?
 
#16 ·
Hey Joe

Great to see you have started a build thread :T

Be glad you have discovered the leak before getting to far into construction when it could have cost a lot more to remedy!

I'm sure you probably saw in my thread how I did a light tray? I build the tray out of ash, stained it and then attached it to a piece of MDF. That MDF is also the side of my soffit. It all went up as one piece so there wouldn't be any visible screw holes

Do you know how you are going to build the soffits? If you were going to cover the bottom in something like GOM you could get away with screwing light trays prior to putting the covering up?

Cheers
Simon
 
#17 ·
Those panels look pretty impressive!

If you are worried about losing ceiling height, have you thought about a painted star ceiling? A woman on the DTV forum in Australia did an amazing job painting over a piece of black fabric and then using LED strip around the edges to crate a brilliant star ceiling.

Let me know if you want me to copy in a link!

Cheers
Simon
 
#18 · (Edited)
ALMFamilyconstr ALMFamilyHVAC ALMFamilyspanel

Very true Simon - I was glad it happened now. :bigsmile:

I actually have it all fixed so I am back on the HT trail! I spent some time last night replacing the one drywall piece and then started sealing. John Hile (Great guy - I highly recommend SoundProofing company) sent me a slew of information on ensuring a nice tight space.

Thanks for the info on the light tray - I actually went back and reviewed again how you did yours since I made that post to get a better idea of how to manage the tray. Again, nicely done! :T

I have looked into a painted ceiling tray - but I really like the look of a fiber optic ceiling so I am holding that as a last resort. I am thinking those panels would be perfect for my space since they can be adhered right to the drywall without having to drop them and make a support system, but I just wanted to see if anyone else had gone that route and had an opinion on how they looked. I will probably just go ahead and contact them and see if they can send me a sample so I can provide a review of them for others. However, if you do have a link, that would be great just in case that's the route I go. Thanks!! :clap:

As far as the soffits go, I am still unsure how I am going to manage them. I would really like to do recessed lighting all along the soffit. There is one side though that has water pipes and duct running along it. After taking a look through the info John sent me, it looks like it is a bad idea (from a soundproofing standpoint) to put recessed lighting in a soffit that has not be decoupled from the wall/ceiling but instead employs the decoupling on the outside of the soffit. I am going to chat with John some more to see what his opinions / ideas are. I actually looked at it this morning wondering if I should have a plumber come out and move the pipes to go through the floor joists so I could drywall the entire room and then build the soffit. :rolleyesno: I will more than likely not do GOM on the soffits - I am thinking I will just do the tray / painted drywall and then a board along the top edge of the wall stained the same as the tray which would be part of the wall assembly to hold the acoustical panels in - I think this is what you did if I recall correctly.

On the plus side, the HVAC guy suggested that doing a ductless mini split would probably be my best option. He also suggested having a infrared heater (that just plugs into the wall) to be there when the temperature drops below 15 degrees F since mini splits are non-efficient below that temp - it gets cold here in Wisconsin! At least that means no more ducts. :boxer:

Oh, and thanks for all the help with the automation - I feel a lot more comfortable with that now. :T

Joe
 
#23 ·
Well ALM,

So..., this is what your earlier question was all about. Well looks like fun to me. You've got some great help with Bryan offering direction and the facts.

Looks as though you've done some reading yourself. Green glue and 5/8th's rock. Pretty sophisticated stuff.

I have to say I am glad to see Bryan step up to help you with your build. He's the man along with a hand-full of others here @ HTS who can answer the questions you didn't know you had. He even seems to understand gibberish.

I cannot speak for Bryan however he has been indispensable on other HT builds. I don't know how busy Bryan is these days but could I suggest you visit the GIK site - http://www.gikacoustics.com/. I think if you are familiar with GIK acoustic products your conversations with Bryan could be most productive. Also you need to become familiar with REW or one of the sound analyzer programs.

This could be an opportunity for me as well. I would like to follow along as your HT develops/progresses. I remember an HT moderator asked that you post your Starry-Night creation and build process. Well I guess I'm hoping you think out-loud and in writing as your HT build progresses.

I am not asking that you track and write about every thought you have, but if you have a question or an idea I hope you present these in your posts.

Thanks :yikes::T
 
#24 ·
Greg

You are so right - so many people have been very helpful and I have not even started framing yet! :clap:

I tracked back to Soundproofing Company's website to learn about soundproofing my space which definitely helped - Ted and John have both been very patient with my newbie questions. I think I will soon be considered a Knight of Knubbery if I keep it up! :dumbcrazy:

Bryan has been incredibly helpful - speaker placements, accoustical pitfalls, etc. He even answered a dopey question about color scheme! :R I have checked out GIK's site for accoustical panel colors already and will probably be back looking at bass traps before too long. :D I have not decided yet whether I will build them myself or purchase though.

Early on, I was worried about going overboard with details about my build. Thanks to your reply, I am no longer as worried about that - definitely appreciate knowing that I am not being a total dork by saying what I am doing every step of the way. :R

Construction Update coming soon!

Joe
 
#25 · (Edited)
Since I have a hard time reading through a long post, I thought I would make an effort to create shorter posts so I plan to break up the posts to cover a few different areas I am working on now. Also, in order to make it easier to search for specific topics in the build thread, I am going to put a unique phrase at the top of each post so the search function can pick it up and allow someone to find all the posts about a certain part of the build. The phrase follows each entry below. I will be updating the 1st post to put this info right up front and update the list as I go. Again, way too much detail I am sure but eh, if it helps one person, it is worth it. :eek:

1. Projector discussion / decisions - ALMFamilyproj
2. Star Panels discussion / construction - ALMFamilyspanel
3. AVR discussion / decisions - ALMFamilyavr
4. Movie Poster display (poaching this idea from TKNice :bigsmile: an example here) - ALMFamilyposter
5. Soundproofing discussion / decisions - ALMFamilysound
6. Room Construction - ALMFamilyconstr
7. Lighting - ALMFamilylights
8. Room automation - ALMFamilyauto

As always, any feedback / opinions / "Joe, way too much info" ribbing is appreciated. :gulp:
 
#26 ·
ALMFamilyproj

My original plan was to put the projector in the AV closet with the rest of the equipment in the back of the room and cut a "projection hole" through so that I could isolate all the equipment and the potential noise /distraction. The closet would be about 19' from the screen. My original thought for a projector was the Epson 8350.

After quite a bit of discussion and feedback from some wonderful people, I have decided to scrap putting the projector in that room and will instead mount it in the room over the 2nd row of seating (at about 15').

I have decided to get the Panasonic AE7000 - the entire projector discussion can be found here.

Joe
 
#27 · (Edited)
ALMFamilyconstr

The noiseproof sealing for the drywall installed in between the ceiling joists is all done! :clap:

I currently have a water pressure tank and main water shut off valve located in one corner of the room. My original plan was to frame it in and build a removeable soundproof box to cover it. After talking with my neighbor about the room, he said "why don't you just move the tank and pipes" - I of course stood there staring at him for a second and said "I never thought of that". :dumbcrazy: He actually has a friend who is a plumber that will do the work fairly cheap. Moving that whole mess will make that corner much cleaner and allow me to place a bass trap in that corner (I originally did not think I could get one in there).

My task for tonight (hopefully!) is to address the air return duct that hangs below the joists in that same corner.

Corner Air Return

Joe
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top