Tommy's HT In-Progress

**Tommy** · **04-24-06, 08:24 AM**

I dont have my own forum and there doesnt seem to be sub-threads so this thread is gonna get long and disorganized quick (pages 20+ etc) if it lasts through out the whole project. I know I should probably go ask each individual question in each specific forum but I'd also like to keep everything together in one spot for a full review project review if anyone else is interested in the future. Just to show how many different questions etc come up during a project.

Alright to start the day, I posted the pics of the framing I have so far. Still waiting on some comments and advice from this point. As for work I know I still gotta finish the soffit, reserves this weekend killed me from getting any work done, and was thinking on a couple more things.

I pointed out that the one wall was done with the staggered stud method but I dont think I stressed that the others are not, there regular 2x4 framming. Out of those 3 walls, 2 are back to the foundation and one back to the utility room.

Not sure how crazy I need to get with sound proofing and acoustic stuff, my goals are having it sound decent but I'm not fantical as far as it goes as long as it works properly and second is making sure the sound doesnt overwhelm the upstairs. The 1st floor, the room above is hard wood floors.

So suggestions on finishing off the walls are welcome.

I found an article and some pics of someone elses HT room and love how it looks. It won some type of award for a home theater. The walls were completely carpeted which I thought was a big no no as far as sound?

So the wife and I are still discussing how the walls should be finished but I do like how this guys walls are structured. Columns break up the room and wall sconces and speakers are inside the columns. In between each column is room to hang a poster and recessed lights are pointed on each poster.

As I said I really like how this looks, still not sure if I should do the full carpet thing though or not though but besides looking nice I think it would also help sound proof the room. I do like the columns and posters in between each column it breaks up the room great. I'd like to hear others comments on the carpeted walls.

I'd like to take 2 spots that he has for carpets though and use one spot to make a recessed section in the wall for a component rack, and another section to make a recessed shelving section to hold DVD's. I'll start another post about the component rack though because I'm defintely seeking advice about this. Just wanted to give an overall picture I'm what I'm thinking about so far.

In addition to what I just mentioned the other differences would be, mine would be 2 rows instead of three (shorter room then his) Also I'm not sure how I'm going to do the front wall. I cant believe he went thru all the trouble to put inwall speakers for the sides and rear and for the front there sitting right out exposed. I'd like to put everything in the walls speakers and component rack etc... also i dont think I have enough room for a front stage.

Ok heres the pics

**Tommy** · **04-24-06, 08:33 AM**

I may just have to break my questions up and go put them seperatly, I think I may just be asking to much here and gonna wind up getting things skipped over.

Alright the component rack is really concerning me. I'm going thru all the trouble to put in-wall speakers so I dont want to have a visibile component rack either. I ordered one of those slim rack 5 things and I'm still waiting for it to come but I'm not sure it is what I want.

What I'd like to do is make some sort of recessed in the wall type shelves on the first 5' section of the right wall. The right wall has about 20" behind it and the foundation wall.

I'd have more accessibility to the front wall but I dont want to look and the component rack while watching a movie.

My problem though, if I'm going thru all the trouble to sound proof the room theres gonna wind up being some type of opening in the wall if the component rack is built into it, right?

I'm gonna have to start on this, this week so suggestions on this would be greatly appriecated.

**Tommy** · **04-24-06, 01:02 PM**

If the rack enclosure goes on the front side wall I'll have a max depth of 20", is that enough?

I can put the rack on the back wall extending into the closet but how difficult does that make wiring anything that has to go to the TV 20' away?

**Tommy** · **04-24-06, 02:15 PM**

Don't leave me already guys...

Ok I complained to the wife I was getting flamed online about the flat screen, well besides mooing at me for caring about message boards she did cave and I got the "do whatever... go ahead" to go with the projector instead of the flat screen.

So I'm gonna have a bunch of questions about this but starting with how is this gonna look on my front wall with that soffit on the right? Do you think that will block the view at all or should I soffit the whole front of the wall down to that height?

So lets start with that, what to do about that wall and what size screen and how it will go on the wall?

Also I'm still desperate to do something about that component rack. Now I'm not so much worried about how to build it but where to place it. Front wall? Side wall (only has 20" depth but is accessibile) or back wall which will have plenty of room but may be to far to wire things, what do you think?

One more question, does a riser 7' in depth seem to long? I'm trying to figure out my speaker and columns placement and gotta figure out where my back row riser will start. Thinking of running it from the back wall out 7', is that ok or to much?

**NorwegianDawg** · **04-24-06, 02:55 PM**

TW...I don't have time to respond right now...hang tight, I'll have time when I get home this evening.

**JCD** · **04-24-06, 03:04 PM**

I'd leave the comments about the framing and sound proofing to N.Dawg -- much more of an expert than I.
That being said, I think if you put regular old pink fiberglass between all the walls and sheetrock the frames you'll be pretty good. The low end stuff is going to pass through the walls, but with distance, that sound will peter our pretty quickly. I don't know what it would take to creat a sound proof room and still have it sound reasonably good.

Re: the carpet thing: I don't think it's a good idea either. I could be wrong, but I think there are some serious issues with that strategy. An alternative would be cloth coverings on the wall (think movie theater). In particular, one made of natural fibers and an open weave. That's what I plan on doing in my listening room. This might give you the same kind of look that the carpet did.

re: Front Speakers: IMO, the front 3 speakers are the most important for sound, especially for music. With in-wall speakers, there is generally some sonic tradeoff for the ability to put the speakers in wall. It could be that he wanted the stand alones because he liked the sound better and didn't mind having them out.

re: Component Rack: I think if you put the components at the front of the room in a recessed section you'd be ok. I'm sure that if you put some sort door in front of them you'd be fine -- maybe one that is covered by some sort of cloth over a cut out so you can still get the remote control to work. And as long as there is some sort of ventilation and access (again, with a door?) you can box up the equipment rack to stop sound from leaking through. Again, I'd defer to N.Dawg on this one.
As for the 20" depth -- I don't know.. it looked like you had an open room behind there, so maybe I have the room mixed up in my head. I'm not sure if 20" would be enough or not. Your receiver is probabbly the only thing that will REALLY REALLY need venitlation, so if I'd check the dimensions of that first. You're going to want some space for the air to move around.
As far as putting the rack in the closet -- I'm sure you can run a cable that long, but it'll probably cost you a bit more (naturally). Also, running speaker wire that long will require a higher gauge and will degrade to some extent. Conventional wisdom says that you should have the shortest speaker wire possible for the best signal to the speaker. The most important speakers are going to be your front three, so ideally, I'd put the equipment as close as possible to the front. That's the ideal, but we always have to compromise in the world of audio, so a long speaker wire run isn't gonna ruin your system, but I would suggest a higher gauge of wire -- 12 gauge?.

Again, I'd defer to N.Dawg on all of this..

JCD

**Sonnie** · **04-24-06, 03:36 PM**

lol... my HT construction thread was 117 posts long in the forum I was hangin' out in a couple years ago. Keep in mind though that I may have made a post and it may have been the next day before I got much response.

I can tell ya a little of what I did. I stagger studded just like you and as JC stated... just use the pink stuff for insulation. I did double 5/8" sheetrock by inside walls and ceiling and single 5/8" the outside walls. On the inside I overlapped the seams and siliconed between layers... more or less running a bead in an X and a couple lines around the edges. This simply to stop any vibrating between sheets. If you look at my HT Construction pics in my Cedar Creek Cinema sig link you'll get some ideas of what all I did... and I pretty much went to the extremes.

On this component rack situation... you got that utility room there behind your front wall. No reason not to take advantage of that. In the utility room you can build a closet to keep closed so that you can access the rear of your equipment. You can fix that closet door where it will seal pretty good. Here's something like what I'm talking about...

This is merely an example... location and design would be to your expectations obviously.

I'll also defer to E (N-dawg) on 99% of this since he does it for a living. Okay... I've done a few, but he's mo-betta wrapped than I am.

**Tommy** · **04-24-06, 05:07 PM**

Thanks guy, I know I'm jumping around at the moment just trying to get everything planned out before doing to much else. Thanks for keepin up. I'll try to limit it as I go for here out but I do have a couple subjects to jump still.

As for the 20" space maybe there is some confusion. The side wall (left wall as your facing the screen) is the wall that has 20" space between it and the foundation wall. I was hoping I could put the rack here but I dont know if there's enough space.

The front wall does have a utility room behind it with plenty of room but I'd prefer to not put the component rack where I'm staring at the rack and the screen at the same time specially when I paid extra for the in-wall speakers.

If the rack did go on the front wall, wires would still need to be run to the back of the room right. Wouldnt it work the same if I put the rack on the back wall where I still have a closet behind it for access?

Also I got the speakers delivered today but I'll create anoter post for it.

**NorwegianDawg** · **04-24-06, 05:15 PM**

TW...quick home work assignment. Can you dimension out your entire room for me, with the soffit drop and everything? Thanks!

**Tommy** · **04-24-06, 05:15 PM**

As I said the speakers were delivered today. They dont have connectors like the pics JCD posted. There some sore of push clip type, is this bad?

Norwegian I know you said I can use bare wire but I thought I was supposed to stay away from that if I'm not mistaken.

Basically what I really need to know is if I ordered bad and need to send it back right away as far as the speakers and receiver.

Other then that, you all did talk me and the wife into the projector system so I need to know how and what to do with this front wall and where to put the component rack.

**JCD** · **04-24-06, 05:18 PM**

Quote:

The front wall does have a utility room behind it with plenty of room but I'd prefer to not put the component rack where I'm staring at the rack and the screen at the same time specially when I paid extra for the in-wall speakers.

I still think you can cover it behind a door of some sort

Quote:

If the rack did go on the front wall, wires would still need to be run to the back of the room right. Wouldnt it work the same if I put the rack on the back wall where I still have a closet behind it for access?

For me, it's the length of the run. Most of your connections (including the most important) are going to be up front. Shorter runs are going to (almost?) always result in better signals to the end source. The other issue is using your remote. It's very un-intuitive to point the remote backwards when you want to access your equipment.

JCD

**JCD** · **04-24-06, 05:21 PM**

Quote:

TommyW wrote:

As I said the speakers were delivered today. They dont have connectors like the pics JCD posted. There some sore of push clip type, is this bad?

Norwegian I know you said I can use bare wire but I thought I was supposed to stay away from that if I'm not mistaken.

Basically what I really need to know is if I ordered bad and need to send it back right away as far as the speakers and receiver.

Other then that, you all did talk me and the wife into the projector system so I need to know how and what to do with this front wall and where to put the component rack.

I think I see how it works.. you press the top of the post and stick the wire through the hole. When you release the post, it springs back up pinching the wire?

If I have it right, that should work fine. My only caution is to make sure that the two exposed wires don't touch each other. It might be a good idea to insert the speaker wire in the front on one side and the back on the other.

JCD

**Tommy** · **04-24-06, 05:27 PM**

The room is 20' Long by 14' Wide with an 8' ceiling.

The soffit runs parrel and next to the right wall (as you look at the front screen) and is about 4' wide. So from the left wall toward the right I have 10' wide with an 8' ceiling and then another 4' wide with a ceiling height a little under 7'

**Tommy** · **04-24-06, 05:35 PM**

Quote:

JCD wrote:

I think I see how it works.. you press the top of the post and stick the wire through the hole. When you release the post, it springs back up pinching the wire?

If I have it right, that should work fine. My only caution is to make sure that the two exposed wires don't touch each other. It might be a good idea to insert the speaker wire in the front on one side and the back on the other.

JCD

Ok great so the right spool of wire should be all I need to order, right? Should I order that now and test the speakers before running them in the walls?

**Tommy** · **04-24-06, 08:09 PM**

Quote:

Sonnie wrote:

lol... my HT construction thread was 117 posts long in the forum I was hangin' out in a couple years ago.

I think I'll have ya beat soon, I'm at about a 1/3 of that post count in less then a week now...

Anyway I finished my soffit tonight in the HT room at least still got the rest of the basement to do. Not sure if this will make any difference or not but I seem to be confusing people with this front wall. So here is another pic of it with the soffit completed and I also attached a drop cloth behind it just for a different view.

**JCD** · **04-24-06, 08:33 PM**

Quote:

TommyW wrote:

Ok great so the right spool of wire should be all I need to order, right? Should I order that now and test the speakers before running them in the walls?

Except for the gauge of the wire, I don't think you need any special spool of wire.

Regarding the speaker wire, there are generally two different groups of thought. Group one thinks that the high priced/esoteric speaker wire and interconnects are a bunch of overpriced snake oil. Group two can't believe that Group One can't hear the sonic improvements with the high end cables/wire. I'm a member of Group One. My advice is to just go down to Home Depot/Fry's and get some huge spool of 12gauge speaker wire. Maybe you need something special if you're oging to be going in-wall -- N.Dawg would have more information on that topic.

And I'd DEFINITELY try the speakers out now -- I have no real worries about the wire itself, but I'd break down and cry if everything else was done and one of the speakers was broken when you tried to fire it up for the first time.

JCD

**Tommy** · **04-25-06, 07:49 AM**

Quote:

JCD wrote:

Maybe you need something special if you're oging to be going in-wall -- N.Dawg would have more information on that topic.

And I'd DEFINITELY try the speakers out now -- I have no real worries about the wire itself, but I'd break down and cry if everything else was done and one of the speakers was broken when you tried to fire it up for the first time.

JCD

Ok will do, I'll order whatever wire you guys recommend and I guess hook everything up for a sound test.

(I babble so much I'll put my questions in red for now on)

They are all in-wall speakers so yes all the wire will be in the walls, so what exactly do I need, I'll order it today?

The room is 20' x 14' x 8' what length spool should be enough too?

Also, is it the same type of wire used for the sub too?

**Tommy** · **04-25-06, 08:09 AM**

Back to my problem with where to put the equipment rack. I'll definetly need to make a decision on this in order to run these wires. Everyone here defintely leans towards the front wall and I'm still just not seeing it.

Short story, we recently moved into a house we had built, the sample house in the development had a dedicated HT room in the basement which gave us the idea to do ours. The did the same as far as leaving a bit of space behind the side wall and foundation but not sure exactly how much they left. Recessed into the side wall they had some type of small cabinet built in that housed the equipment. If possibile I'd like to do something like that on the side wall and out of the way. Unfortunatly I cant go back and take a peek at the sample (not permits for my basement finishing). I'd love to know what the cabinet is so I could just buy it at this point.

If I do put the rack recessed into the front wall as everyone suggest, I guess spacing would need to be figured out before hand right. A decision will be needed in how wide the screen will be, plus I have the in-wall speakers what will take up the space in between two studs on each side of the screen. Whats left over will need to fit the rack? Unless the rack went completly under or over the speaker.

Wall is 14' wide = 168"
Sounds like others are recommending the screen being around 110" wide. - 58"
Leaving 18" (36") on each side for speakers - 22"
About 11" left on each side

Ok if the rack does go on the front wall I would definetly need either a smaller screen or putting the rack under or over the speakers and not to the side of it.

**Tommy** · **04-25-06, 08:39 AM**

Soffit blogging

Just wanted to babble about the soffits. I put them together using 2x2's and nails according to the basement home finishing books I picked up. But I'm just not thrilled with them, they just dont seem secure enough.

First is that it is covering a double duct which is about 4' wide. This is in the HT room plus the same will be in the other section of the basement which will also be alot longer. Anyway my point is this just seems like its going to be to much weight suspended from the ceiling.

So I'm telling the wife about it and explaining how I just dont think the nails are gonna hold and that maybe I should take it all apart and redo it with screws. So of course what does she do but pulls on it and tears out a good section of it from the ceiling. Felt like hitting her with the **** boards.

Maybe I'll just add some screws to it in place rather then completly taking it down and screwing it all over.

**Tommy** · **04-25-06, 10:01 AM**

Columns And Risers

As I mentioned in a previous post I like how this guy has his HT room setup as far as columns on the wall with spaces in between the columns for posters or whatever. The columns would hold the wall sconces and in-wall speakers where appropiate.

His room is about 10' longer then mine, so I'm thinking of maybe 2 columns per side wall and 2 rows of seats, the back row will be on a riser. Not sure yet if I want to put a column in each corner of the back wall facing towards the room.

So I'm at the point now of having to build the columns in order to start getting ready to wire for the speakers. I dont want to lose a foot or more off the width of my room for people to get by in the aisle, just want to break up the wall into sections and house the side speakers and lights in the columns.

So the framing is a simple 2x4 box with 16" between the two studs. The end result will be the column will be about 17-18" wide and only come out of the wall about 2".

For the back row riser I'm thinking about extending it out from the back wall about 7'. This should be plenty of room for a reclining chair plus I'll be able to place the columns flush with the front of the riser.

Meaning the riser will not be totally rectangular but 'T' shaped around the column. Doing this will leave about 5.5 feet of space between each column. In between the columns I'd like to put posters with recessed lights pointed on them. Also depending on where the rack goes, 2 spots may be used for the rack and a recessed shelves for dvd movies.

Not sure if I can frame the riser in place before sheet rocking the walls or not. It would be easier if I could though. Still got figure out what wires will need to go to the riser and how too.

My main question about all this though is can I frame the risers in now and sheet rock the walls around it or will I need to wait till after the sheet rocking is done before starting the risers? The risers will be running from wall to wall on the sides.

**Tommy** · **04-25-06, 12:58 PM**

I'm gonna order the speaker wire, does this sound right and is there anything else I may need to order?

250ft 12/2 CL2 IN WALL SPEAKER WIRE

cablestogo.com has it for $100 is that a fair price for it?

Do I need any type of connectors for the speakers or the receiver?

How bout the sub, does that get the same wire?

**Tommy** · **04-25-06, 01:06 PM**

I also see this monster cable that is 3 times as expensive, is it that much better?

250ft MONSTER 2 COND. 12 GA (UL) CL3 WIRE $300

**JCD** · **04-25-06, 01:15 PM**

That price is in-line with the cable/wire company that I've used in the past, Blue Jeans Cable.

I took a quick look at their speaker wire, it was $95 for 250ft of 12 gauge wire.

They also have subwoofer cables if you wanted to buy them at the same time.

As for the speaker wire connection to the receiver, you can go with a just the plain wire; however, I prefer banana plugs -- if nothing else, it's just easier to hook up (also at Blue Jeans Cable).

As for Monster Products, some will (passionately) say you'll get better performance with the high end cables/wire. I think the wire above will be just as good at a third of the cost.

JCD

**JCD** · **04-25-06, 01:20 PM**

Oh, and did I see in another thread that we corrup.. err.. changed your mind about the plasma and will be going to a projector?

If so, I'd be willing to bet that if you sent an e-mail to the people at Carada, they'd respond with the screen size they'd recommend. They also have probably the best priced screens out there. Also, everything thing I've heard about their customer service has said they're top notch.

JCD

**Tommy** · **04-25-06, 02:09 PM**

Dammn I thought I saw something about the sub wire being different. My sub is an in-wall sub and I didnt even take it out of the box yesterday to check what type of connection it has. Guess I'm waiting to go home and check before ordering now... Your leaving me hangin though on whether or not to get the monster wire

And ya were all in for the projector now. My 8yr old daughter is thrilled, ya would think she is one of you all the way she keeps going on about the projector is going to be better then the plasma.

Ok, I'll start on screens and projectors with you guys soon enough, I need to figure out what I'm ordering here before I jump on that.

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