Help in Design of Difficult New Home Theatre New Home Construction

**Prof.** · **11-29-07, 08:22 PM**

Quote:

Conrad wrote:

And for a quick measurement what is the height and length of scope screen that will fit in my room.

An 8' wide scope screen will have a height of 41"...and a 9' wide screen 46"..

**bpape** · **11-29-07, 08:25 PM**

Having a stage has nothing to do with seating position. Even with a false wall (that you could easily do if you flipped the room as I recommended), the seating is based on the hard surfaces.

If you have to go 2' instead of 3, that's fine - do what you can. Just remember that's to your ear, not the back of the chair

Bryan

**Conrad** · **12-02-07, 12:49 AM**

Hi guys thanks for all the help so far. I spoke to a fellow at Theatreseatstore and he gave me a good idea about having a single row of five chairs, kind of in a sort of curved manner. He says this will give you slightly better viewing angles instead of being straight on and turning your head to look at other side of screen. You are already slightly angled to wards screen.

I think with this arrangement I still can sit 5 instead of just 3 and don't have to worry about being to close with have two rows. Any thoughts on this curved seating arrangement?

I think it allows for the best of both ideas more seating than just one row and and little more distance from rear speakers and screen? I think my veiwing distance would be about 10 to 11 ft then. Should I then go with 8 ft or 9 ft screen?

And Prof just to make sure a 8ft wides screen would measure 96 inches length x 41 inches in height?
Is that correct. When you order or make a 2.40 to 1 screen do you specify width and height and then diagonal just happens how does this work?

Thanks

Conrad

**Prof.** · **12-02-07, 06:24 PM**

Quote:

Conrad wrote:

Hi guys thanks for all the help so far. I spoke to a fellow at Theatreseatstore and he gave me a good idea about having a single row of five chairs, kind of in a sort of curved manner. He says this will give you slightly better viewing angles instead of being straight on and turning your head to look at other side of screen. You are already slightly angled to wards screen.

I think with this arrangement I still can sit 5 instead of just 3 and don't have to worry about being to close with have two rows. Any thoughts on this curved seating arrangement?

I think that's a good idea..and gives you plenty of back space to play with..
It should also give better surround sound imaging, rather than having the back row getting comprimised sound.

Quote:

Conrad wrote:

I think it allows for the best of both ideas more seating than just one row and and little more distance from rear speakers and screen? I think my veiwing distance would be about 10 to 11 ft then. Should I then go with 8 ft or 9 ft screen?

I would go for the 9' screen, and set the centre of the 5 seats at 11' -11'6''..This should keep the outer seats at still a reasonable distance from the screen..

Quote:

Conrad wrote:

And Prof just to make sure a 8ft wides screen would measure 96 inches length x 41 inches in height?
Is that correct... When you order or make a 2.40 to 1 screen do you specify width and height and then diagonal just happens how does this work?

Yes that is correct..The 9' screen will be 108"x46"
The AR of a Cinemascope screen using an Anamorphic lens is actually 2.37:1..
If you're ordering a commercial screen from a well known manufacturer, you only need to specify the width and the required AR, although some of them only sell a stock line which they have determined to use a 2.40:1 AR..If that is the case, you can still use that AR..It just means that you will have a bit more overspill at the top and bottom of the screen..

**Conrad** · **12-04-07, 01:12 AM**

Hi Prof thanks for the info I just finished creating a computer rendered model in sketch up. I hope to have file together to show everyone the HT room. It looks great, will keep you posted. Do you know if it is possible to show or view that sketch up file on this forum?

Thanks

Conrad

**Prof.** · **12-04-07, 05:11 PM**

I don't see why you couldn't post a sketch up here...
I've never done one, but I think you would post it in the same way as a photo..
Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong..

Looking forward to seeing it...

**Conrad** · **12-11-07, 10:47 PM**

Sorry but can not make files small enough to post any suggestions?

Thanks

Conrad

**bpape** · **12-11-07, 11:06 PM**

Just put it in your gallery and link to it instead of embedding it. There is a size limitation but I believe Sketchup will let you export to .jpg where you can control the file size.

Bryan

**John Simpson** · **12-13-07, 12:01 AM**

One thing that just occurred to me (and I'm not sure if this has been mentioned)... why don't you continue the wall down from the wall that has "equipment racks" written on it? Put in a second door and you've created an airlock... perfect for sound insulation, and removes the possibility of that nook becoming an "echo chamber" of sorts.

To me it would also "feel" more comfortable. As the nook is directly to the right of the screen, it may feel a little distracting while you're watching movies... like a void breaking the symmetry.

Just an idea!

**Conrad** · **12-13-07, 02:10 AM**

Thanks John for the idea, I never thought about that I guess what you are asking for me to do is create a double door into the room is this correct? How much would this help the sound proofing do you think? The room is already surrounded by 3 walls of concrete the East ,South and North walls I guess for sound proofing I need only to do something do ceiling and West walls then? Or would you put special sound proofing in those walls too?

Cheers

Conrad

**Conrad** · **12-13-07, 02:26 AM**

Thanks Bryan for the tip. I think I got it do display as a jpeg. Please everyone take a look and see what you think. The sketch up is in scale. It is much more interactive when you can move walls and change views of actual room, but this will help.

Thanks

Conrad

**John Simpson** · **12-13-07, 03:18 AM**

Quote:

Conrad wrote:

Thanks John for the idea, I never thought about that I guess what you are asking for me to do is create a double door into the room is this correct?

Yep -- essentially continuing the right hand side wall to make the room into a perfect rectangle. For me it's more an aesthetic thing, but the benefits to soundproofing and sound dissapation would also make it worth considering.

(Someone actually suggested this for my HT room, but I dismissed it because my alcove was at the back of the room, and the second door would open right next to a step. Still, it wouldn't be too hard to add the wall during construction, if I think it really needs it.)

Edit: Incidentally, look at my thread and then check out this guy's thread. This is what convinced me to go with an accoustically transparent screen. And the more I read about the sound localisation from that method, the more it makes sense. Worth considering if you're building from scratch!

**bpape** · **12-13-07, 07:16 AM**

That little area over there would also make a killer enclosure for an IB sub....

Bryan

**John Simpson** · **12-13-07, 05:26 PM**

Haha... now you're just confusing the poor guy!

But Bryan is right... building in that extra wall (and reinforcing it) will allow you to use that "room" as an infinite baffle, running 2-4 18" subwoofers in-line... probably vertically arranged.

If you're not sure what and IB sub system is, see this website. Infinite baffle setups will always perform better (and go lower) than any boxed sub.

**Prof.** · **12-13-07, 06:28 PM**

The Sketchup came up well..
I have a suggestion, other than what has already been suggested..
If you are considering an acoustically transparent screen, then you will need space behind the screen for your speakers..
This requires the fitting of a false wall (screenwall) about 2' out from the front wall..This would still give you enough room for a single row of seats..

Even if you don't go for an AT screen, you will be able to hide the speakers behind the screenwall...unless you like to see your speakers..Personally I find it a distraction to be able to see speakers, and it tends to direct your eyes to them during a movie..
The other benefit of screenwall is you have more choice of positioning the speakers when they are placed above or below the screen., particularly if you decide on a Scope screen, where the speakers need to be within the sides of the screen..

**Conrad** · **01-07-08, 01:51 AM**

Hi Prof thanks for the all the advice so far and everyone else. Just to update on project over the last 3 weeks I have been pulling Low voltage wires for my Crestron home automation system Now I finally have made it to the Home theatre room today and starting drilling holes for speaker runs and video connections. I came up with the following issues or questions I am not sure what to do.

Just to recap I am going to be purchasing a Sony projector Model Number: VPL-VW60 seelink for specs http://www.sonystyle.ca/commerce/ser...ductId=1004354 And as for video source I want to go for a Sony Blue Ray or HD player or both depending what happens over the next 7 months of battle between the two formats but lets not get into that here

And I wish to watch other video sources such as HD satellite or HD digital cable also through projector

1. First for video connections what I was planning to run to projector was the following

a) 2 HDMI cables
b) 1 component video cable
c) 2 Cat6 cables
d) 2 RGB cables

I am using a Crestron home automation system to video switch everything but not sure if should do this here or run independent of Crestron system, this is why I have Cat 6 running to projector.

As for HDMI cables I have no idea what to get here. My length of run is between 10 to 20 feet depending on where the player goes into communication room see diagram of room in earlier thread. Can anyone recommend a cable here. I purchased my speaker wire from Monoprice they seem to have good prices even with the shipping to Edmonton AB Canada. Are all HDMI cables the same? Can you terminate them after the pull through the walls?

Do I need both a componet and HDMI cables? Or should two HDMIcables do the job sufficient and better than a single componet cable or to bullet proof the system should I use both?

Do I need the RG6 cables there? They are inexpensive so I thought what the , better safe than sorry. If I do really need them will these work fine?

As for the audio or speaker side of the room I have drilled holes through the floor joists to carry the cables to the control or communication room. I have 12 AWG wire from Monoprice on the way for this. I have kept the runs pretty well separate from everything else to lessen a chance of interference or hum from power. I still have to cross in a couple of spots but they are at 90 degrees to each other.

Does it matter if at the end of the speakers runs the speaker cables come in contact with each other? As they go through the walls? Does it matter if they come close to Cat 6, HDMI or RGB cables? I am trying to do my best but sometimes they cross.

And for speaker runs I am wiring for a Left, Right, Center, Right and Left side of couch and 2 rears and wiring for two subs. So a total of 9 separate speaker runs. I am not sure if room needs two subs or side speakers but it is easy to wire for it so what the

And lastly I may run some conduit if possible for the future. And if I am missing any cables or future proof wiring for this Home theatre room please let me know. I will post some actual photos of room shortly.

Thanks

Conrad

**John Simpson** · **01-07-08, 02:16 AM**

Personally, I'm running conduit to the projector, as well as HDMI and component cables. The latest Home Hi-Fi magazine was discussing a new format (*groan*) to supercede HDMI... we know it's going to happen eventually, so plan ahead.

You can bunch speaker wires and digital cables together without any worries. It's power cables that tend to muck things up, so avoid those (and never loop them!).

**Prof.** · **01-07-08, 06:48 PM**

Hi Conrad...

I'll try and answer some of your question..

Quote:

Conrad wrote:

As for HDMI cables I have no idea what to get here. My length of run is between 10 to 20 feet depending on where the player goes into communication room see diagram of room in earlier thread. Can anyone recommend a cable here. I purchased my speaker wire from Monoprice they seem to have good prices even with the shipping to Edmonton AB Canada. Are all HDMI cables the same? Can you terminate them after the pull through the walls?

I bought a 25' Monoprice HDMI cable for my set up, and found it to be an excellent cable and very cheap..compared to Australian prices..
The main thing with long run HDMI cables is to get one with at least 26awg wires...and Monoprice fits the bill..
The cables come with connectors already fitted and normally you just plug them into your equipment..
No need for any other termination..

Quote:

Conrad wrote:

Do I need both a componet and HDMI cables? Or should two HDMIcables do the job sufficient and better than a single componet cable or to bullet proof the system should I use both?

Do I need the RG6 cables there? They are inexpensive so I thought what the , better safe than sorry. If I do really need them will these work fine?

I would definately run RG6 component cable as well..

Quote:

Conrad wrote:

As for the audio or speaker side of the room I have drilled holes through the floor joists to carry the cables to the control or communication room. I have 12 AWG wire from Monoprice on the way for this. I have kept the runs pretty well separate from everything else to lessen a chance of interference or hum from power. I still have to cross in a couple of spots but they are at 90 degrees to each other.

Does it matter if at the end of the speakers runs the speaker cables come in contact with each other? As they go through the walls? Does it matter if they come close to Cat 6, HDMI or RGB cables? I am trying to do my best but sometimes they cross.

You have the right idea...The power cables are the only ones you need to keep seperate from the others, and if they do have to cross over the others, crossing at 90 degrees will alleviate any problems..

Looking forward to seeing some pics..

**Conrad** · **01-08-08, 01:20 AM**

The other benefit of screen wall is you have more choice of positioning the speakers when they are placed above or below the screen., particularly if you decide on a Scope screen, where the speakers need to be within the sides of the screen.."

Hi Prof I am just curious what you mean by this especially the bold print. I was planning of going with the scope screen but was not planning of placing the speakers behind the screen wall as the depth of room is to short I think? I was thinking of just having the speakers on the left, and right of screen and center channel below center of screen. Can I do this with anamorphic screen still? if not why or why not? What would be the advantage of setting up a screen wall like you described?

And for cables I will definitely try to run a conduit if I can. What diameter John do you recommend or did you use?

And John and Prof I notice you are both from Australia, I spent 6 weeks there and have very close friends living in Wagga Wagga, Wollongong, Port Macquaire, and Melbourne. I think AU is amazing hope to see rest of it some day.

Cheers

Conrad

**Prof.** · **01-08-08, 11:26 PM**

Conrad..If you ever get the chance to come again to Australia, you'll have to see the best place..South Australia...Although John might disagree with me.

Getting back to business...
It has been shown that with a Scope screen, the best place for the L&R speakers is within the side borders...Particularly with a very wide screen..
This helps to give a more even spread of sound across the screen and beyond..

This can easily be done when you use an AT screen because you can just space your speakers along a horizontal line behind the screen..

If you're using a solid screen, then this can only be achieved by mounting the speakers above or below the screen..
This is where the screenwall comes in...You are then able to mount the speakers behind the screenwall, above or below the screen...Generally the above position is preferred, particularly if you have a second row...but if you have tall speakers, then below the screen is the more likely place..

I have my speakers mounted above the screen, with the L&R speakers about a 6" in from the sides of the screen..
The other benefit of doing it this way is the sound is better positioned for when you watch 1.78 or 1.85 movies..

If this is not practical for you then the configuration you mentioned should be OK...
The wider the scope screen , the more critical this becomes..

From memory (and I just can't find the dimensions at the moment) your room is about the same size as mine..
My screenwall extends 2' out from the front wall, and still leaves me plenty of room for single row viewing...and without adversely affecting the surrounds, so you should be able to include a screenwall if that's what you plan to do ..

**John Simpson** · **01-08-08, 11:38 PM**

Prof's right that South Australia is a nice place -- especially if you like red wine. Best red wine region in the world, I say...

I used to live in two of those places you mentioned: Wagga Wagga and Melbourne. Both fabulous places.

Heh, I sound like a tour guide... back to the discussion!

**MatrixDweller** · **01-09-08, 10:43 AM**

Quote:

Prof. wrote:

Conrad..If you ever get the chance to come again to Australia, you'll have to see the best place..South Australia...Although John might disagree with me.

I lived in Inverloch Victoria for a year when I was a kid. That's about a south as you can get in Australia. I hear you guys are having some issues with water shortages. I work for Trojan Technologies in Canada who is helping to solve some of your problems.

**Prof.** · **01-09-08, 06:51 PM**

I don't want to hijack Conrad's thread so I'll keep it short..

Here in South Australia our water situation has improved..even though we've had a lot of hot weather..
On the other side of the Country (Eastern states), they have flood problems at the moment..
The end result...Some of that water will eventually come down to us..

The biggest problem Australia has with water....POLITICS!!!

**Conrad** · **09-14-08, 01:00 PM**

Hi sorry for delay in HT design but other parts of house being built, back at home theater now. Having now pre wired HT room and drywalled. And selected a single 4 seat curved seating arrangement for the room. The seats will have the head position at approx 11 feet from screen and 3.5 feet from back wall.

The way I prewired room was 1 sub and Left, Center and Right in front of room and a corner back speakers outlets for floor standing speakers and speaker outlets on back wall of room one foot from each side wall. And an additional sub wire in back right hand corner of room opposite other sub in front of room.

Now what the problem is as I was shopping for chairs and screens everyone told me that my speaker set up was not optimal. I should of had wires or speaker jacks at the head position even with the seats about 1 foot down form ceiling or right below bulk head. And using a dipole speaker so the rear surrounds would create more of a surround field.

I did however put extra wire into bulkhead for a 7.1 system but I did not pull them out of wall so what I need to now is it worth it do cut into drywall or bulkhead and pull those wires out before house is completely painted as it is primed only now. I hate the thought of cutting into drywall again and having someone to come repair the cuts but if this is important I am totally fine with this. As long as it is worth it for the love a a better sounding Home theater room.

Would someone please tell me what to do here??? It probably wont take long to find wires but why do this if floor standing speakers or speakers mounted in back corner of room good enough for my room set up.

Please Advise Thanks in Advance.

Have attached photos the Wine color wall is the back wall you can see the speaker outlets in the upper corners and lower speaker outlets in bottom corners and open wall pictures you can see by pot light where blue wire is by pot light

Conrad

**Prof.** · **09-14-08, 08:21 PM**

Quote:

Conrad wrote:

Now what the problem is as I was shopping for chairs and screens everyone told me that my speaker set up was not optimal. I should of had wires or speaker jacks at the head position even with the seats about 1 foot down form ceiling or right below bulk head. And using a dipole speaker so the rear surrounds would create more of a surround field.

Hi Conrad..
The advice that was given about the surround speaker location is correct...particularly for dipole speakers..
They should be placed on the side walls, about 6' above the floor and level with the back of the seats..
It's probably better to move the wiring now, rather than have to do it after everything is finished..

Are you planning to use dipoles for the rear speakers as well?

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