Cedar Creek Cinema colors...

[Sonnie]

Here's a recent close up shot of our HT room showing the colors...




Here's an older broader shot...




Here's yet another shot and you can see the color difference between cameras... I'm terrible at figuring out cameras to take the right kind of pics. I'm hoping when JimP comes to visit he'll be able to help me get some good shots then.





So... when I ordered the acoustic panels I thought I was getting a good match, but ended up not doing so well. I stuck them up anyway and now they are there. They are supposed to be removable but I've tried to remove one and it's gonna tear it up if I do.

The wall color is Dark Burgundy and the cloth for the acoustic panels is supposed to be Dark Burgundy... obviously there are two Dark Burgundy's.

I've been thinking about this color thing for a while now and was planning on getting a shade of burgundy to better match the acoustic panels. I've also consider maybe a different color. Maybe a shade of gray, but not sure how the front wall would look with it just gray or if I should just go ahead and paint the entire room a shade of gray.

Looking for suggestions on color improvements. I'm not sure there is much I can do with the panels and their color.

[Otto]

Sonnie wrote:

Looking for suggestions on color improvements. I'm not sure there is much I can do with the panels and their color.

Hey Sonnie,

Well, I'm no expert on color schemes for dedicated theaters, but I like the idea of grays and blacks taking over. Perhaps your "dark burgundy" acoustic panels will provide a splash of color and contrast.

Or if you don't like the panels the color they are now, could you dye them? Something that wouldn't change their acoustic properties? Sounds like you weren't too optimistic about getting them down, so this would probably be a big pain. If you change the wall color, are you going to have to paint around them? That's no fun either!

As to your comments about not being able to take good photos -- have you ever tried a tripod and a longer exposure time? Don't use your camera's flash; rather, use a diffuse light source from behind the camera, which you may want to bring in just for the photos. I'm not much of a photo expert either, but I can get really "warm" pictures by doing that. One of these days, I'll try to get some better pics of my system as well -- no promises that they be great, though!

Anyway, just some ideas as I was looking at your pics. Your room and system looks very well put together!

[Sonnie]

Yeah... painting is not my favorite thing. At least it's not like a lot to have to paint. I figured I could mask tape the edges of the panels and paint around them.


I have tried my tripod with longer exposure times but they turned out worse than the "auto" setting with the flash. However, I haven't thought about bringing in some sort of external lighting source. That might be the ticket. Those lights in there now don't put off too much light.

Thanks on the room and system comp!

[Alan Brown]

Sonnie,

Here are some options to consider:

1. A flat black ceiling is the best for your dedicated room. I wouldn't settle for anything short of that. However, my demo theater only has black on the front half of the ceiling. The back half is white to help illuminate the room for cleaning, etc. My ideal would be paying a mural artist to paint art deco clouds on the ceiling, starting about half way back in darker grays (like storm clouds) and gradually transition to whiter clouds in the back of the room. The cloud-scape could even spill down onto the walls some. I wouldn't want hardly any white on the walls, especially for front projection.

2. The walls could be a darkish medium gray with a contrasting faux texture laid on top in burgundy, beige (like your chairs) and/or blue. Something like I've seen done with a sea sponge would be simple. There are texturing rollers that work fairly well.

3. Plain fabric acoustic panels can be textured in a similar way. Use thicker acrylic paint that sits on top of the fabric rather than soaking in. I've used a similar technique to transfer stencils onto fabric years ago. You can also look into making your own large stencils for the front panels. I would use black or dark gray for the stenciled design on the panels.

How did you mount the panels? It's not clear to me why it would be so difficult to pull them off the wall. You didn't glue them, did you?

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.
ISF, THX, SMPTE, CEDIA

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

[Phil M]

Alan Brown wrote:

Sonnie,


1. A flat black ceiling is the best for your dedicated room. I wouldn't settle for anything short of that. However, my demo theater only has black on the front half of the ceiling. The back half is white to help illuminate the room for cleaning, etc. My ideal would be paying a mural artist to paint art deco clouds on the ceiling, starting about half way back in darker grays (like storm clouds) and gradually transition to whiter clouds in the back of the room. The cloud-scape could even spill down onto the walls some. I wouldn't want hardly any white on the walls, especially for front projection.

I like this idea Alan, my ISF calibrater had his head in his hands, sobbing no no no, when he first came to calibrate my CRT projector and saw my white ceiling. For his next visit the ceiling had been painted the same as my walls (light grey), and this time the sobbing stopped but he did shake his head and mutter to himself - why doesn't this guy get it. But he's right, my ceiling reflects to much light from my DLP, and he suggested the ideal would be to have a black fabric pinned up their.
I have an RSJ half way across, and I'm going to try using a flat black for the half closest to the screen.

When you've been around a little longer Alan you'll realise that suggesting to Sonnie having to PAY a mural artist will have sent him to the hospital with chest pains He'll get the family and kids to do it for free

[Sonnie]

Exactly... you talking to a hillbilly here... not sure we could even find a mural artist in our neck of the woods.

Painting the ceiling flat black is not a problem. Painting the walls a medium-dark gray is not a problem. I'm not sure I understand the other part to add burgundy... do you mean where you could still see the gray but there would be some burgundy on top?

I've seen some sponge type rollers that are supposed to add texture to ceilings and walls but haven't ever seen what the end result looked like using any of them.

[Alan Brown]

The cloud thing was what I want to do in my demo theater. I really wasn't implying that you would/could/should do it in yours. The faux texture paint method just adds a little random color on top of the gray base. It would simply be some accent to play off the panel color. Are you going to answer my questions about how you mounted your panels?

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.
ISF, THX, SMPTE, CEDIA

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

[Sonnie]

Oh yeah... I forgot.... sorry. If I remember correctly I used the included velcro. When I attempted to remove one of them it started to break. It might be that I could possibly get some type of stiff wide spatula and get it behind the panel and remove them easier. When I tried with my hands it wasn't working too well.

If I could get them removed I might re-attach them with some 1/2" to 1" spacers to allow some space behind them... maybe they would be more effective. Plus I need to raise the ones on the sides a little now that my newer speakers are taller.

My ceiling is midnight blue now... I might just add some flat black painted areas... more particularly on the front half.

[Tommy]

Sonnie:

I've said it before, the room looks great and very professional. I have a few comments and questions though.

The walls look very smooth and is the type of look I'd like to have. What type of paint did you use, a matte or flat paint? How many coats? Did you primer it etc...

Again I think it looks great and this may be the camera but it does seem a lot lighter then a Dark Burgundy. Seems like a Pinkish Burgundy.

By the pictures it looks like the panels may be more of a Burgundy. I would say how it the picture and the reflection in the room? If that could be optimized more you may want to paint darker and match your panels.

I'm considering a Dark Burgundy for the walls and black trim and ceiling for mine but I dont think the blue you picked is much different and dont for see any problems with it specially when the lights are dimmed.

I can see you painted the wall sconces, are they glass, metal or plastic?

I know the ceiling needs to be dark specially in the front of the room, does the same apply for the floor carpet? We still have to make are carpet selections and I havent decided what color to use for there yet.

What are the small round things on the back and side wall?

[Sonnie]

Tommy wrote:

The walls look very smooth and is the type of look I'd like to have. What type of paint did you use, a matte or flat paint? How many coats? Did you primer it etc...

Thanks Tommy... the paint is flat, just an ACE brand flat and yes I did use Kilz 2 as a primer. Three coats of paint.

Tommy wrote:

Again I think it looks great and this may be the camera but it does seem a lot lighter then a Dark Burgundy. Seems like a Pinkish Burgundy.

I can't get the camera to show the true color. In the room the wall looks more like a dark burgundy and the panels look more like dark red. In the pics it does look like it has a pinkish tint or some might think a violet tint.

Tommy wrote:

I would say how is the picture and the reflection in the room?

No reflections that I've noticed at all. I just don't know if the color on the front wall might be causing my pic to not be precise as it could be. Alan did say burgundy was not as bad as some other colors.... but I would like to match up or contrast the panel color to the wall color. I still may try again to remove the panels.

Tommy wrote:

I can see you painted the wall sconces, are they glass, metal or plastic?

They are ceramic. 20 bucks each from ACE hardware.

Tommy wrote:

What are the small round things on the back and side wall?

Those are speaker terminal pads. This is where I had two side speakers but it didn't sound right for the rear seating. I tried 6.1 too, but the rear center was just too much in my narrow room. I ended up moving the surrounds to the rear corners... now they sound fine for all listening positions... with a tad more presense from the rear seating than the front row since they are setup for the front row.

[Alan Brown]

Sonnie,

If I could get them removed I might re-attach them with some 1/2" to 1" spacers to allow some space behind them... maybe they would be more effective.

Good idea! The 1" spacing would be better. Acoustic absorption occurs by slowing the speed of the sound vibrations in the air through friction in the panel structure. The goal is to ultimately convert all that energy into heat. The air particle velocity is reduced near the wall surface. Allowing it to pass all the way through, bounce off the wall, then pass into the panel structure again is considered to be nearly equivalent to using a 2" thick panel for less cost. That's the theory I was taught.

Tommy,

I know the ceiling needs to be dark specially in the front of the room, does the same apply for the floor carpet?

Dark carpet helps, too. Usually the screen ends up closer to the ceiling, so that's the first place to consider a dark color. Since the carpet is fuzzy, less light will reflect from a lighter color. It's also advisable to use felt type pad vs. foam rubber. The felt has better sound absorbing properties than foam. Some people use a lighter color of carpet in the room and place a dark area rug in front of the screen.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.
ISF, THX, SMPTE, CEDIA

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

[Tommy]

Sonnie wrote:

No reflections that I've noticed at all. I just don't know if the color on the front wall might be causing my pic to not be precise as it could be. Alan did say burgundy was not as bad as some other colors.... but I would like to match up or contrast the panel color to the wall color. I still may try again to remove the panels.

I just asked this for Alan in another thread too but since it applies to what you said I'll mention it here also.

Now I am planning on painting the front wall black and the side walls a dark burgundy with black ceiling and trim. Alan’s statement makes it seem that although it may be marginally acceptable it is not preferable to use the dark burgundy. I’m wondering why and what is better then? Being as most movie theaters are some similar type of shade to this I would think this would be the best color to pick from besides painting the whole room black.

Are there any reviews, studies or comparisions that point out which colors or color patterns are better then others as it applies to a home theater besides just saying choose a neutral color.

[Alan Brown]

What SMPTE has recommended for additional colors in an ideal viewing environment are the "nearly neutrals" from the Munsell Color Order System. These colors are pastels and "nearly whites." You probably won't find this set of Munsell references very easily. I have a book of reference color samples but they're over $500.00 just for the nearly neutrals and nearly whites, with an incomplete set of neutrals in the back.

The nearly neutrals start out as a pale pastel but extend in value (light to dark) all the way into some pretty dark shades. As they darken they don't increase much in chroma (richness of color) but look more like increased amounts of black are added to the mix. Burgundy can be a nearly neutral. This gives them a gray-ish character so that they don't turn vivid color shades. The entire color spectrum is represented.

Munsell developed the original color order system that Pantone and other subsequent systems are based upon. This was over 100 years ago. Therefore, there are many sources for this category of colors.

Bright or vivid colors can be used as accents in a video viewing environment, but the dominant color scheme should be neutral to nearly neutral. Again, this methodology is for rooms where image fidelity and color accuracy in the video picture is top priority.

With front projection theaters, the front wall can have a little color in it as long as it's darker. When the lights go out, and the screen lights up, it will appear to be black. This is acceptable since the light coming off of the screen never shines onto the front wall. An exception would be where the ceiling is white or another boundary near the front wall is light enough to bounce light from the screen onto the front wall.

Don't use what you see in actual theaters as your guide. Use the documented SMPTE standards and practices. There are plenty of mistakes made in public venues or magazine photos. The THX Theater Alignment Program (TAP) recommendations are based upon SMPTE's work. If you don't mind a contaminated screen image, do whatever you want.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.
ISF, THX, SMPTE, CEDIA

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

[JimP]

Sonnie,

A few minor changes via photoshop.

[JimP]

Then again, if you are looking for a wall color to tie everything together (carpet, chairs, acoustical panels), you might want to try this.

[JimP]

Gray didn't look bad either.

[Tommy]

You missed a spot....

[Tommy]

If only it was that easy to paint the room

[Sonnie]

Cool... hey... I do like the gray... maybe a little darker shade though. The gray and blue looks good together.

How bout a darker ceiling too?

[Sonnie]

Or should I make the panels a darker color too?