MitchOK Theater Construction Thread

[mitchok]

Thought I'd post the construction of my theater room. This site has been very helpful so far. I am lucky that I am working with a trim carpenter that specializes in theater rooms.

So far, we are doing more destruction than construction. I am going to see if I can play with Sketchup and project a final design. I have attached a 2D floor plan, but that doesn't really give you the details of the floor height and ceiling height issues.

No specific equipment is determined yet, but basic game plan is:

TBD Projector (Epson Powerlite Pro Cinema 1080)
92" Diag Fixed Frame Screen (maybe Da Lite Cinema... screen material TBD)
A/V Receiver - TBD
Speakers - TBD (Klipsch RC-52 Center, RB-51 Left/Right, RS-42 Surrounds, and RPW-10 Sub are being considered)
Playstation 3 (already owned)... dang Blueray is expensive!
Direct TV HDTV Box
Addl DVD Player TBD

The most important component according to the Finance Minister (Mistress?) is the Contempo 4 oz Popcorn Machine with the 96 can bev cooler.

Anyway, I am sure I will be posting questions & thanks for the help so far... any suggestions are welcome.

Mitchok

Picture 1 is facing east.
Picture 2 is facing west towards future screen home.
Picture 3 is future home of equipment rack
Picture 4 is future home of snack bar

[bpape]

Looks like a fun project.

I'd say you're home free if the tradeoff for doing this is a popcorn machine and a beer cooler

Bryan

[Prof.]

Looks like it's going to be a major HT build..
Can you include in your drawing possible locations for screen, speakers, seating etc., so we can get a better idea of what you're proposing?

[mitchok]

Ok... here is the basic layout for the screen wall (east wall). I have left off some construction/trim details. Doors (raised panel) will be built custom/stained to match existing house construction. Wood is oak and oak veneer.

This is my first attempt using Sketchup... what a great tool. I readjusted the screen depth (currently 6") in the wall because my original plan (18") caused some issues with off angle viewing being blocked by wall edge. Didn't really see this until I did it in 3D. I will continue as I have time to build the rest of the room and show the remainder.

You can't tell in this, but the screen centerline is lined up with the ceiling vault which you can see in my earlier post.

THanks all!

[bpape]

Just a heads up.... Putting speakers in cabinets like that is a bad idea. Putting subs in a cab like that is a worse idea. ANYTHING that is built in should be designed to be built in (ie in-wall designs).

An open design will give much better performance from the same equipment.

Just something to consider.

Bryan

[mitchok]

Thanks Bryan,

The sub will be behind the seating area.

I guess I sorta understand what you are saying about the L/R/C speakers, but given the fact that this is a traffic flow issue, I am not really wanting to have the speakers in the way... moreover the Finance Mistress wouldn't like it.

Can you elaborate on "bad" and perhaps I can adjust design to minimize issue. What would you suggest? I am not really in favor of putting built-ins as I have those downstairs... and quite frankly they are pretty poor.

Thanks MitchOK

[Prof.]

That was the first thing I picked up on also...
Definitely not a good idea to have those speaker alcoves..
If they have to be mounted in that way, then I would suggest just having open shelves and moving the L&R speakers further away from the sides of the screen..

[mitchok]

Ok guys... try this one.

Center Channel
I bumped out the center channel shelf 9"... thats about as far out into traffic flow as I want to go. If I end up with the RC-62, its depth is 12.5"... so that means the back end is still in the alcove so to speak. However, I oversized the opening to give extra room in all directions. I will discuss with trim carpenter and maybe he can jazz it up or offer an alternative. Maybe we can open up the top too.

L/R
Open up the space significantly. The current depth of the alcove is 24"... Is shallower better? The speaker dimensions are 15.4H x 8.5W x 12.25D.

I sure appreciate the input.... its a lot easier to fix it now.

MitchOK

[raw23062]

Uh oh.....did I mention I had my guy build my speaker slots just like he had drawn up..... so what now? Do I cut the backs out? Too late to move them now.....

[bpape]

Sorry. That's not going to help. What you need to do is get speakers that are designed to be used in-wall and have your cabinet guy build faces for those openings so they're sitting on a mini-wall.

Bryan

[mitchok]

Some birds eye views of the room. Seating rows are pretty close to where they will be. Unfornuately beacuse of the room shape and centerline, the first row (3 seats) has to be offset slightly to accomodate walking area.

One question I have is about the surrounds because of the odd room shape. Is it possible to do two sets of surrounds... one that targets the first row and another behind the third row? Any suggestions you might have would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again.... MitchOK

[bpape]

Are you saying set it up as 5.1 but to sets of surrounds - so 7.1 set up for 5.1?

Bryan

[mitchok]

Not sure.

As you can see the angles I am dealing with and the space constraints... I wonder what to do that would sound the best. I am not after audiophile sound... but just a good/decent sound experience. Typically, with the family, we would only be occupying the first two rows anyway. I was thinking about a surround like the Klipsch RS-42, but no matter how I mount them on the angled wall, it seems the rear row gets blocked out and there are issues with cabinetry which I will most likely have to add some deading materials. To make matters worse, allergies force a wood floor. I will make liberal use of area rug(s).

So yes, I guess what I was thinking was a 5.1 setup with the Klipsch RS-42 mounted in the location shown, but also add a smaller pair of surrounds in the rear that would project primarily at the back row. I guess I can wire it that way and if it doesn't work well either switch to 7.1 or scrap the rear speakers. Do you think this is brain dead? Is there an alternative that doesn't require moving?

Thanks!
MitchOK

[bpape]

If it was me, I'd either:

- Just wire for 5.1 and put the rears in the back all the way so everyone gets some. You can compensate for timing in the processor.

- Do 7.1 and just let the rear row miss the side surround channels.

If you parallel 2 sets of rears in 5.1, you'll have timing issues I'm afraid.

Bryan

[Prof.]

I think your first consideration should be for the normal family viewing situation..
With that in mind, I would place the side surrounds on the flat walls opposite the second row..
That way, everyone in the family viewing situation should get some reasonable surround effects..

When you have guests over, you can either leave it as it is, or make facilities for moving the surrounds further back to be opposite the back row..
To do this you would need to run an extra set of cables and connection points to the back row position, on the same walls..and of course providing that the surrounds are mounted in a manner that they can be moved..
This way you will still be using a 5.1 system..

[whines]

It seems like dipole surround speakers along the sides of the second row of couches would be a good comprimise; that's my first thought!

[kjgarrison]

mitchok wrote:

Ok guys... try this one.

Center Channel
I bumped out the center channel shelf 9"... thats about as far out into traffic flow as I want to go. If I end up with the RC-62, its depth is 12.5"... so that means the back end is still in the alcove so to speak. However, I oversized the opening to give extra room in all directions. I will discuss with trim carpenter and maybe he can jazz it up or offer an alternative. Maybe we can open up the top too.

L/R
Open up the space significantly. The current depth of the alcove is 24"... Is shallower better? The speaker dimensions are 15.4H x 8.5W x 12.25D.

I sure appreciate the input.... its a lot easier to fix it now.

MitchOK

Dipoles for sides? I am considering them as well. Are there any "in ceiling" dipoles?

BTW, what is the software you use for these excellent diagrams?

[mitchok]

Software question is easier so I'll answer that first. It is Google Sketchup (Free version). Thanks to HomeTheaterShack Forums on that... I went through tutorial and was fairly operation in 2 hours... at least enough to get the ideas conveyed to to Chief of Finance (aka my better half) and my trim carpenter.

Di-Pole in-ceiling... I dunno... but I really like the Klipsch CDT-5650-C and the CDT-5800-C. I am considering as an option because of the ability to swivel/direct the horn and woofer towards the seating area. I heard these at the local box store and they are sweet. I just dunno how they would do as a surround in terms of sensitivity/response.

For instance... the response Klipsch RS-42's are 52Hz-23kHz +/-3dB and the CDT-5650-C is 60Hz-20kHz ± 3dB. The sensitivity is 95dB versus 94dB @ 1w/1m. Hi Freq crossover is 1700 Hz versus 2440Hz. Not sure if I could hear the difference under most conditions. Of course, I am old and deaf...


Hope this helps.

Muddling my way through...

MitchOK

[salvasol]

mitchok wrote:

... Is it possible to do two sets of surrounds... one that targets the first row and another behind the third row? Any suggestions you might have would be greatly appreciated ...

I notice that you haven't get your AV receiver ... are you planing to get a 5.1 or 7.1???

In a 7.1 you use two sets of surrounds, the back surround (can be used behind third row) and the surrounds (between first and second rows) ... but the problem is like you said "the angled wall" .

According to the experts there are some "No - No's" when installing speakers, but you can try and see if you like the results ... What I mean is, you can use a pair of speakers on the angled wall (per your diagram) and connect another set of speakers in parallel and place them between row two and three, those will be your surrounds .. then use a pair behing third row, those will be the back surround

You will use 9 speakers instead of seven for your system ... in this case all rows will have the surround experience.

I'm crazy, and I'm using four sets of speakers on my front (see this picture) ... I know that what I'm doing is wrong, but there is a difference in the sound when I use just the pair of towers and when I use all of them

[mitchok]

Ok... it has been a long week with a little progress on the newly renamed "Winchester House Home Theater" for the areas that seem to go nowhere and the endless construction.

After much discussion with all stakeholders (please note... author has minority voting shares). It was decided to abandon a projector/fixed screen ONLY approach and redesign to accomodate an LCD on the wall and a recessed electric screen. Note... I sorta won this round.

The consequence of this has pros and cons. The pro's is I don't have to watch OU-Texas in the dark. Not a manly thing to do when other guys are over. The con's is that the screen comes out towards the audience about 14" and I will still have a smoking hole where my LCD TV should be since the budget only has one display option in it right now (note: I plan on hanging a picture of a LCD TV there to drive my wife to open the checkbook up).

We also essentially abandoned the 3rd row of seating and revamped the second row. This works out nicely in that it will give more room for both first and second row, simplifies the speaker layout, and allows me to move the front row back about 10"... nearly recouping the screen to row distance I had originally.

The vaulted ceiling was roughed in... still blocking to do. The current vent will be relocated and that is approximately where the projector will hang (something around 13' from screen).

Equipment Decisions made this week....

Projector: Epson Powerlite Home Cinema 1080p UB (purchased at Visual Apex)
Screen: Elite TE106HW2 CineTension2 Series - 106" Diag. (52"x92") - Tensioned Electric Screen - 16:9 HDTV Format - Matte White (also a Visual Apex purchase)

A/V Recvr: Onkyo TX905NR... (not purchased yet)
Center: Klipsch RC-62 (not purchased yet)
Fronts: Klipsch RB-61 (not purchased yet)
Surrounds: TBD
Rears: TBD
Sub: SVS PB10-NSD (purchased from SVS)

Some wiring has been order from bluejeans and monoprice. I am finishing the wiring plan this weekend and may seek help/comments on that. Goal for next week is to finish all framing rough in.

Hope everyone had a good week.

MitchOK

[mitchok]

Salvasol

7.1 is the choice. I think we solved some of the problem by sticking with 2 rows. 3rd row seating (aka fold up chairs ) can be brought in for football games and surround isn't an issue. This is less crowded and I think we are going to target the surround system for the front row. I am still considering ceiling versus wall for surrounds and may run some extra wires in case I don't like it in one position or the other. Same is true for rears. The back wall is windows and doors... not much room for speakers. I am considering a wall mount but have it extend away from wall as far as possible. Directional ceiling speakers are not ruled out either.

Since I am not an audio expert, I can say what you have done is pretty cool. At the end of the day it seems to me as long as you respect V=IR and understand timing/phasing you can do it. Even us aero/mech engineers had a class or two in electronics. Enough to be dangerous anyway. 110... 220... 440 whatever it takes. Juice it til it smokes. jk.

Have a good weekend.
MitchOK

[bonehead848]

whats up mitch! I just moved from Norman in December when I graduated. It sucks because I would have loved to stop by and help out. Anyways looks like you have a pretty good design going so far.

[mitchok]

bonehead848 wrote:

whats up mitch! I just moved from Norman in December when I graduated. It sucks because I would have loved to stop by and help out. Anyways looks like you have a pretty good design going so far.

Thanks Brian... I could use the help. I am cheating in that I have a trim carpenter helping me. I orginally did most of this build out about 12 years ago and now am semi-destroying it for the better I hope. This one has to last me a while.

Mitch

[mitchok]

First Draft of Wiring Plan.

The guest plug is primarily for two purposes...
HDMI/Composite for Guest Gamebox
I wonder if it would be better to run Component (~30') cable and put a composite plate on? Has anyone done this?
Internet for Guest Laptop or Guest Gamebox to Internet

I don't know what LCD TV I will end up with otherwise I might not run component to it. Once sheetrocked, this is a bear to get to. Same thought on projector.

Note...I didn't complete speaker wire (16 AWG from Monoprice... no Monster ripoff for me thank you) run on diagram for clarity... they all go to the A/V recvr of course. Also the Mini D doesn't go to the A/V.. just to the cabinent for now.

Comments?

Thanks
Mitchok

[bpape]

Looks pretty good. If you haven't purchased it yet, I'd recommend at least 14 ga for the speaker wire. If you want to completely future proof, run 12ga. 16ga will work but it's pretty skimpy for 4 ohm speakers over much of any distance.

Bryan